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- 07-June 05
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- Jun 18 2009 03:32 PM
- Member Title:
- Ninja Freak
- 23 years old
- July 3, 1990
- Quad Cities, Illinois
- I obviously have an interest in paintball, but i also like other stuff such as computers, video-games, i love the woods, girls, some anime, and some other random stuff.
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Posts I've Made
12 June 2009 - 10:09 AMI can see where that may be a concern on a semi, however I haven't really seemed to have this issue. Perhaps this happens more at higher rates of fire that are naturally inaccurate already, as my mag doesn't exactly have a favorably walkable trigger pull? Or perhaps its because its on an Automag, that sucker has next to no recoil anyhow being a very well designed blow forward.
All I know is I am having a blast with this barrel myself. If nobody else likes it, meh, what can I do about it?
12 June 2009 - 10:02 AMYeah, I'm not 100% sure on the electro-pneumag yet. I know I want to do one of the two, however Wardenwolf makes an interesting point. With a good conversion, I probably really wouldn't need a board or solenoid. It would be nice, as I could have ramping settings were I to need them (or want to play with them in my back yard or outlaw), however they are not an absolute must. Honestly, I just want to be able to walk this thing similar to an electro, enough to get some paint down range if I need to. Electronic pull, however, may be lighter. After all, all you would be pressing is a little electronic switch. That is exactly what this Ego had I shot a few days ago, and it was solid gold to walk. However, I have played with a pneumag before, and they really can be light enough to do the same exact thing with a good conversion.
Either way I will probably mounting a Palmers Micro-Rock on the left side of the bottomline ASA (will require me to invest in a new ASA, but oh well, its worth it). I want to use a micro-rock, they are very nice LPRs and when it comes to a mod like this, it would probably be best to use a really dependable LPR, as if that breaks the marker will no longer fire. I will probably do it exactly like as pictured above. I may even buy a CP ASA, as they make pretty good On/Off ASAs. If I go the standard pneumag route, I will no longer have a marker safety, as I will probably be installing double trigger stops from Luke's Customs afterward. The ability to turn off AND bleed the entire marker (including the LPR) will be a must for safety in my book. I never liked having to get rid of a safety in the first place, but there are alternative measures to safety, just like on an electro. As long as I can disengage the firing mechanism, we would be fine.
In all honesty, I think I am gonna have to renege on the ectro-pneumag mod. Perhaps I will in the future with more funding, but I just don't feel like learning pneumatics AND electronics all in one project. Perhaps if I get this electrician's apprenticeship I am shooting for, I will learn how to circuit my own stuff and get it all rigged up, but I would need a lot of help with an electro mod. That being said, lets stick to Pneumag for now, as I can always make electro-pneumag lowers some other time. As far as pneumag goes, my biggest problem with this whole thing, its kinda confusing. I got the concept of exactly how this much be done, but I am confused beyond confused as to what parts to use. Phish has a very good list of parts here, however some parts, such as the Fabco MSV-1 vs. MSV-2 I have no knowledge of and no clue which ones would be better for the shortest and lightest trigger pull. One could even use a Clippard SMAV-3, but I have no clue what the differences are. Also, the actuator end of this is a little confusing. So with the actuator I should be getting all the internals as well, correct? Should be the main piece, the spring, possibly a washer, and a delrin bolt correct? Or does it come with a ram as well? I see luke's customs has 3/8's MPA-3 Rams, but are those a good size, or would I need to make them longer or shorter? Shorter I can do on my own easy, I can get it all tuned up and ripping paint, but longer is a custom order of some type or some sort of drill/tap/nut modification that I would like to plan ahead for if I have to do it. Also, QEVs. Would you suggest one or no? I'm not exactly sure what the point of one is, I know it ports air, but thats about it. As you can see I need a little more knowledge before I can set this up.
So yeah, so far I'm pretty set on a left side bottomline mounted Mini-rock, and doing a regular pneumag conversion. Thats about it. Any suggestions, tips, or anything else that could set me in the right direction?
11 June 2009 - 01:20 PMHmm, I wonder . . . should I try pneumagging a single trigger RT Mag . . .
I believe its possible, however with as light as the pneumag trigger pull is (and even lighter for an electro-pneumag), I just can't seem to see why you wouldn't want a double trigger. Double triggers suck when the trigger pull is too heavy, but on a pneumag/electro-pneumag it would be perfect for walking. I shot an Ego yesterday without the grips on it, and got a pretty good look at the trigger mechanism and a pretty good feel for the trigger. That trigger pull is uber light. A pin hits a very light little lever that activates the board, am I not correct? I would basically use pretty much the same kind of switch for this mod, but with a different board. Putting a good board board into this would essentially make a marker that would rip like an upgraded Ion (as Automags have been known to be fully capable of 30+ bps if you can make it shoot that fast), have the consistency of an Automag with X-valve, almost never chop thanks to the Lvl10 bolt, and all together rofl at SP and their stupidity.
So I have an idea of the layout, but not a superb idea of what parts to use. I do have one question of opinion, however. This page shows a lot of different pneumag configurations, pneumatic and electro-pneumatic alike. There are many good pictures here, but two of them set me off pretty well. The first picture is this:
The PPS STB LP reg (my obvious first choice for a regulator, as PPS makes wonderful products) is mounted on the left side of a bottomline adapter. While I think the front mounted LPs look cool and all, they are in an bad spot for me, as I may or may not decide to put a Q-loader on it eventually (depending, I hear they blow now, but maybe I can get my hands on old pods, or give the new ones a shot to see if they are really that bad). Were I to put a Q-loader on my mag, I would want probably mount it to the front as shown on the Q-Loader Home Page. I also do not like having the stabilizer in line with the X-Valve, as I personally think it looks ugly and consumes space in necessary places. Having an STB installed in a similar location would benefit my goals greatly.
However, I also want to make this an electro-pnuemag, requiring me to make space for a board, solenoids, and a 9volt as such:
This is where the problem comes in. The stock AGD grip (which I must admit I have come to like) has little room for a 9volt unless I were to attempt to mill a spot for it right in front of the lower grip screw or find an alternative placement for the 9 volt (any idea or suggestions, shoot away). I would like to use the AGD Intelliframe grips if possible, or possibly even an RPG Ultra Light Frame . Unfortunately there are no good pictures of the frame on the website anymore (if anybody has one, please post or PM me a picture of one without the grips on so I can take a look see), but the Ultra Lights are milled to remove as much metal from the inside of the frame as humanly possible without preventing it from accepting grips. This typically is not a good frame for a standard pneumag as the Ultra Light milling process removes a small bar that a 2 way would typically be connected to. However, since we would be using a board and solenoid instead of a 2 way here, that would no longer be an issue.
I would like to get pretty much all the electronic parts into the grip, along with having the STB on the bottomline ASA, and feed the air right into the bottom of the grip and up to the solenoid. The air line shouldn't be a big issue, for if there isn't quite enough room I will simply modify my grips to allow a little extra space for the LP line. My biggest concern is figuring out what board would work best for this project (as I know very little about boards, their solenoid options, firing patterns of different board softwares, and so on), and how to fit that board, a 9 volt, and the solenoid all into the compact space of an AGD Intelliframe (Ultra Light or not). If that is not possible, I will need to find a different grip frame that would work. Its a shame RPG Chimera Frames aren't in production anymore.
Addition: So I did a little toying with these images on paint, comparing the image to my marker, and moving the parts with a selector tool to see if there is any plausible way to accomplish this. The only, and I mean only thing I could come up with is get a smaller solenoid. Scenario Dreams has a great board that is way small, definitely perfect for this small size of this project, but in order to cram a battery with it and all the hosing I will need a smaller solenoid. Dye had this same problem when they were making their guns, I read somewhere. Does anybody know enough about solenoids to help me out? I gotta make sure the darned thing is small and compact enough to fit the 9volt, board, tubing, and wires in there and still be able to activate Clippard MPA-3 actuator with enough force to engage the marker. Any ideas?
11 June 2009 - 12:49 PMTHAT'S DOUG'S PHANTOM! and I think he had said that myth regs will not work with the drop forward
You can always clamp the tank onto the stock. I believe Agnoe has it set up this way. I like the clamp set up
The only thing I really don't like about the clamp setup is it forces me to use the CCI stocks. Don't get me wrong, they are nice stocks, but I don't know that they fit my style.
11 June 2009 - 12:25 PMMann's Test is a very good scientific test, thanks Viherkogen, but at the same time I don't exactly see where it helps the case of the brass barrel. This is for a few reasons.
First thing is first, sound signature. The PPS brass definitely beats a Carbon Fiber Sly on sound signature from both angles in the test, however by a fairly small margin. The PPS brass is less than one dB quieter than a Sly. Not much of a big difference, you probably wouldn't notice it with your naked ear. Both barrels together, however, destroy much of the competition on the board. This is very nice for both barrels, but when it comes down to it, sound signature is only one important quality for a barrel to have.
Now, for the accuracy test. Unfortunately the PPS Brass doesn't even have a set of listed shot groupings in the regular accuracy section. Not sure if it was removed, or if the section never got completed, but its unfortunate. Being Freak Based, to understand the Fibur you must look to the Freak insert accuracy test. Now, they don't have pictures for Stainless Steel inserts, but they do have pictures for the aluminum inserts in the plain accuracy test, and there those inserts shot fairly well. It had a few off curved balls for the lower grade Rec Sport paint, but what do you expect trying to get away with cheapo-depot paint? They shoot the X-ball and Marbs like a charm, not quite as accurate as the TI Longbow barrel, but they still hold up against most barrels. Another thing to notice is that under a calibrated caliper, the Stainless Steel barrels vary much less when recording the difference between given and actual bore size. This is likely due to the fact that stainless steel retains its size between hot and cold temperatures better than aluminum. This could possibly create a slight change in accuracy, though I do not think it would mean much as paint itself reacts to temperature as well. A large change in temperature could show a difference in results in the accuracy test section when comparing stainless and aluminum freak inserts.
One thing you should really check out is the accuracy test after a break. Many barrels outright fail in this category. Paint in the barrel is definitely a serious issue, even for the PPS Brass. For being such a nice barrel as you claim, that shot grouping is pretty bad inaccuracy after a break section. Not the worst, as some completely missed the target all together, but still its not very good. It almost makes me scared to see what the regular accuracy must really look like, for that grouping doesn't give me good hopes. The carbon fiber barrels themselves are some terrible barrels after a break as well, they just don't live up to their accuracy expectations. The stainless steel freak inserts, however, are still shooting solid gold.
Let me tell you a short story. There was once a farmer that got tired of dirt getting stuck on his plow. He wanted a system that would actually clean his plow constantly while he worked with it. For his day, this seemed like some sort of mystery magic machine of the future, but this was no average farmer, this one was much more ambitious. It doesn't hurt that he was a blacksmith as well. He knew stainless steel had amazing self cleaning properties, so he decided to make a plow blade entirely of stainless steel. Turns out he was on to something, as the company he founded now sells some of the best farm equipment made here in America. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out stainless steel, as the farmer/blacksmith John Deere figured it out and changed the way the world farmed forever.
Moral of the story, when I heard Freak was stopping the production of Stainless Steel inserts 3 years ago, I scrounged every bit of money I had on me at the time to get my hands on one of these puppies before they were gone, and for good reason. It seems now SP actually brought the stainless steel inserts back into production. I wonder why that is, after seeing Mann's Barrel Test. These things are beauties. If you break a ball, as long as you have a good paint to bore match (as you should with a Freak), the bores will clean themselves after a few shots (for the most part). Accuracy will come back quickly, and you won't be ruined over a barrel break, or be forced to swab or squeegee it mid game (though it wouldn't matter either way for the Fibur, as it is made so well that you can actually swab its inside if you needed to XD). Even though I probably won't chop many balls on an Automag with Lvl10 bolt (you can put your finger or even a rolled up dollar bill in the feed and it won't hurt either one), and probably not so much on a Phantom as well (being a pump gives it less chance to straight up chop), the possibility still remains, but when it happens to me, I will be shooting clear in a few shots and ready for action again.
Now how about weight? Yeah, I almost don't even have to mention this one, its obvious. According to the Deadlywind website, the Fibur barrel weighs on average 46 grams without an insert. That means the whole barrel weighs just a little more than one stainless steel insert. Coming in at a mere 89 grams (and that is using the heaviest SS insert on the list), this barrel is on the very light side of barrels on the list. It may not be the absolute lightest (as the Stiffi Switch beats it at 67 grams at heaviest), it is definitely lighter than most of the barrels on Mann's list, including the PPS Brass which weighs 2.75x the weight of my full set up. Another thing to take into consideration is the positioning of the weight on my barrel. The thread end of the Fibur is heavier due to the Stainless Steel insert, making the back of the barrel contain about 75% of the barrels weight. This makes it feel more like the weight is on the marker, instead of the barrel or the front of the barrel. The front of the Fibur has nothing to weigh the front end of the marker down, allowing aiming to be a breeze.
That being said, by suggesting I get a PPS Brass you are recommending I buy a barrel that almost triples the weight of the barrel I prefer, won't hold up even close to as well after a break as the barrel I prefer, may or may not be close to as accurate as the barrel I prefer (and I surely won't have much option for bore match with a single sized barrel), and what for? For >1dB of sound signature reduced? Unless you are suggesting that I should get a PPS Brass, and get it bored for Freak inserts, you are a nutter. Even then, while it would be >1dB quieter and just as accurate, it would still be 2.75x the weight of the Fibur. Once you were to get your hands on a PPS Brass and pay shipping and labor to have it bored for Freak inserts (if this is even possible), you would probably have just spent just as much, if not more than you would have just buying a Fibur outright, already bored for the freaks, and ready to use as soon as it reaches your house in a cute little box with free Deadlywind stickers to slap all over your paintball equipment cases and bedroom to remind you of your excellent purchase from Deadlywind.
Mann's Barrel Test may have been before my recent return to paintball, but it still hasn't proved a thing against my long held theory that the Deadlwind Fibur is a wonderful barrel that balances some of the best qualities people look for in a paintball barrel. It may not be "THE BEST" in every category, but is very balanced and competes well with "THE BEST" in each category (while it definitely ties for gold in after break accuracy). All too many barrels are one sided deals. One is accurate, but a break destroys that, its heavy, and its loud. One barrel is super quiet, but it is way heavy for a barrel, and doesn't do so hot on the accuracy test. The possibilities go on, but in EVERY single test Mann's team did, carbon fiber has proven to greatly reduce sound signature and barrel weight, while stainless steel freak inserts provide absolutely beautiful accuracy before and after a break. That being said, I too would not go as far as to say I am getting the best of both worlds. What I am getting is a wonderful balance of performance in ALL worlds.
So when it comes down to what you are hoping to discuss, Viherkogen: "preferred barrels that solve accuracy, noise, cost, and rollouts", I don't quite see what kind of argument you could produce to show the Fibur would not fare well in these categories. Accuracy (before and after a break) and sound signature have already been proven effective by Mann's Barrel Test. Rollouts are not as much of a concern, as the Freak is a barrel kit (with a very large selection of bore sizes at that). Even if the Freak did start having trouble with rollouts on the Phantom for some reason, this could be easily fixed with $6 ball detents or an ASP Phantom Detent Modification. Either of these should fix the Phantom rollout issue no matter what sized bore your barrel is. Cost is about the only category you could argue the Fibur cannot compete in, as it requires a full freak kit on top of the $90 barrel to make it work its magic, however for someone like me that is not and has not had an issue with the cost, and has already purchased a full stainless steel freak insert kit, this barrel is definitely worth it.
As a side note, I did realize one funny thing about my insert kit. It appears to be incomplete to today's standards. Apparently they now make an even smaller size, .679", which I do not have. When I purchased my Freak insert kit, the smallest bore size was .682". Perhaps with the .679" insert (in stainless steel of coarse), I could even get a perfect bore match for that crappy Wal-Mart paint I bought last week that I was talking about. Not that it really matters a whole lot, I shot that crap paint out of the .682" just yesterday, and with the exception of a few goofy balls it put balls on top of balls from 50-70 feet away. I remember when I first got this barrel, I decided to show it off to my friend who had just bought some other high end barrel kit, and he almost cried when I put 6 balls right on top of each other from 80 feet away onto a >2" diameter fence post. The 7th shot missed due to human error in aiming (I am known to twitch a little under pressure), and I quickly adjusted my aim to put the 8th ball right on top of the first 6. On a vice, it would have put 8/8 on that thin steel fence post exactly where it was aiming. I don't know how much I can stress to you, this is an absolutely fantastic product whether you like to admit it or not. The science is all right in front of your eyes.