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Illusion's Profile User Rating: -----

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General Paintball Discussions (16 posts)
02-October 08
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User is offline Mar 25 2009 10:35 PM

My Information

Member Title:
Forum Newbie
55 years old
September 9, 1958
Male Male
Eagan, Minnesota
Paintball, Muskie Fishing, Astronomy, Sailing, Wood Working, Audiophile. Oh yeah and HAM Radio (N0VTN)

Contact Information

Click here to e-mail me
Website URL:
Website URL  http://www.paintball.bwalter.net

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  1. In Topic: ATF approved my silencer

    13 October 2008 - 07:12 AM

    View Posthoodtrix, on Oct 10 2008, 10:12 AM, said:

    illusion. Do you have the address of where & who you sent this little thing too along with case# for referance.

    Mr. John Spencer
    Chief, Firearms Technology Branch
    Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
    244 Needy Road
    Martinsburg, WV 25405

    The only case number or reference I have is printed on the letter I received from them.


  2. In Topic: ATF approved my silencer

    13 October 2008 - 07:04 AM

    View PostEskimo, on Oct 11 2008, 08:24 AM, said:

    oh. well, trying to find this pipe insulation has been harder then I thought. that is an older style of insulation. and the only type around here is a rubber crappy floppy tube. :)
    home depot
    Canadian tire

    oh noes!! :(

    were did you say you found yours??

    I bought mine from a local building maintenance supplier. Here is their web page.


    The first item IF1010

    The web page says it's from CertainTeed but the material I got by visiting their store is from Corning. It shouldn't matter.

  3. In Topic: ATF approved my silencer

    09 October 2008 - 10:09 PM

    View PostRowanPaintball, on Oct 9 2008, 09:15 AM, said:

    Illusion, I understand that you are doing a lot of research on this, but I think you are missing some thing. I have also done allot of research into this issue, and have been led to believe that what you are proposing is in fact a violation of the law the minute you place it over the paintball barrel.

    Have you read my entire correspondence with the ATF or just the letter I received from them which I posted on this forum? I sounds like you haven't. No matter what I do some will still be critical. Even if I do what you suggest, someone else will claim that it hasn't been tested in court. Perhaps someone who paid the $200 tax plus whatever the cost of a professionally made silencer doesn't want to give up his advantage and will send a barrel and a piece of insulation to the ATF hoping get it reclassified as a firearm.

    When reviewing my case the ATF had three options;
    1. Classify it as a firearm silencer.
    2. Classify is as not a firearm silencer.
    3. Refuse to classify it for some reason. Most likely because they needed something else from me like all or part of the marker I intended to use it with.

    The ATF had all the information necessary to make an accurate assessment of the device. For the record I did obtain legal advice before sending anything to the ATF. What I think I am hearing is that because others have tried unsuccessfully to find a solution, it must be impossible. This didn't stop the guy in the 2004 case from finding a solution. Many of us are unwilling to weld the barrel to our markers so this solution isn't widely implemented. The solution I found isn't ideal either. It's not as rugged as some may wish and the material although very common can be tricky to find. This solution may be short lived if the ATF changes the definition of a firearm to include air guns.

    I feel that I am beginning to ramble. There are only so many ways to reword the same information. I don't stand to make a dime off this information, I have no product to sell. I could have kept the information to myself, but this would benefit only me. I have learned a lot reading this and other paintball related forums and am very appreciative of that. I found a way to make a small contribution to the sport by providing information along with supporting documents. Can I guaranty that some agency such as the ATF won't try someone anyway? Of course not. Although if they come after anyone I would expect it would be me not some 16 year old kid. What I do guaranty is that the documents I have published are real and not modified in any way other than the removal of my mailing address. If the administration of this forum has any concerns they can remove this thread whenever they wish. I did seek permission before posting here as well. I hope this helps.

    Thanks for your comments

  4. In Topic: ATF approved my silencer

    08 October 2008 - 07:28 PM

    View PostRowanPaintball, on Oct 8 2008, 07:41 AM, said:

    Illusion, would you be willing to send another sample to the ATF with an extra paintball barrel? Get a spare paintball barrel, and put the insulation on it as you intend to use it. Send that into the ATF, if they say it is legal then the debate will end.

    No, I'm not going to send the ATF a barrel along with another piece of pipe insulation. It isn't necessary. I gave them a very clear description of what I wanted to use it for and how I intended to install it. They know that it fits tightly over my barrel and doesn't fall off. They know it's not permanently attached to the barrel and they know that the barrel of most paintball markers are detachable.

    If you think about it there is good reason in the 2004 case for the barrel being welded to the marker. If a silencer were permanently attached to the barrel but the barrel was removable then some enterprising individual would manufacture some accessory for a firearm, a laser sight perhaps, that attached to the gun using a mounting that just coincidently used the same thread as the paintball barrel. The next thing you know lots of these accessory's would be purchased along with a paintball barrel/silencer and people would have two readily obtainable legal components which if combined would make for a great silencer. The people at the ATF are not stupid.

    If someone wanted to use a piece of pipe insulation on a portable firearm (the ATFs terminology) they wouldn't need the paintball barrel. They would just wrap their gun barrel with tape until the insulation fit. The paintball marker is simply not part of the equation. What you do with a piece of pipe insulation is of no concern to the ATF until you attach it to a portable firearm, at which point you are in violation of the law.

    Besides, the genie is out of the bottle, why give government an opportunity to put it back in? My 2 cents anyway.


  5. In Topic: ATF approved my silencer

    07 October 2008 - 09:49 PM

    View PostM.O.P., on Oct 7 2008, 09:32 PM, said:

    Sorry to burst some bubbles but "silencers" do not muffle the report of a firearm, they make its sound signature change.

    This is in agreement with what my testing showed.
    It acts like a mechanical low pass filter, It provides a significant reduction of the high frequency component of the report, but allowed for a smaller increase at lower frequencies.



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