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- 20-July 08
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Posts I've Made
29 July 2008 - 05:59 AMYup, that's the basic concept of it. Everything else depends on the field. But you get the idea of what I was talking about.
28 July 2008 - 12:26 PMculd u tell how u wuld hide yer hide
The Jellyfish method:
1) Find the largest and nastiest patch of poison oak you can possibly find.
2) dig hide near the poison oak patch and cover with medium size trees, branches, etc.
3) crawl underneath the poison oak patch and cut it off at the base.
4) hide the base of the poison oak so no one will notice the stump.
5) place entire patch of poison oak on top of your hide, so it looks like a giant poison oak bush.
6) sit inside hide scratching yourself all to hell, due to poison oak.
7) laugh at instructors as they walk around the giant patch of poison oak looking for you.
There are other methods such as lots and lots of small trees as a roof, and multiple supports inside. covered by some left over dirt, vegetaion, etc. A small "burrow" near another bush that leads into the hide (yes you litteraly crawl through a small tunnel inside and hope like hell it doesn't collapse on you.
28 July 2008 - 08:52 AMWell it looks like Joe covered it! The Marine Corps training is a little different but not by much.
Every sniper platoon in the Marine Corps has a little bit different selection process for its snipers. The “indoc” (indoctrination, selection and assessment) for each sniper platoon can be anything from a day to two weeks, depending on how they want to run it.
Essentially the requirements are the same.
Expert Rifle qualified (sometimes must be qualified two times as expert),
1st class PFT (preferably a perfect PFT score of 300 which includes a 3 mile run under 18 minutes, 100 crunches in 2 minutes, and 20 dead hang pull ups (no jerking, kicking, etc),
1st class swim qualification,
110 GT score on the ASVAB test,
eligible for SECRET security clearance (or higher),
and generally good evaluations from your command.
Oh, and you pretty much HAVE to be in the infantry (not comm., motor-T, etc). If you meet these basic requirements then you are eligible to participate in the Sniper Indoc (when one is being held, which can range from 6 months to 2 years apart)
During the Indoc (depending on the platoon holding it) you will typically be evaluated on your performance, attitude, aptitude for the job, and on “who you are”. The platoon will typically have the Sniper Team Leaders (if not the entire current platoon) vote on those who finished the Indoc and decide who they want to take (if any!) We have had some indocs that we took no one into the platoon for various reasons. So even if you complete the selection and assessment portion, you still may not make it into the platoon. We typically “hand pick” those that we want in the platoon. We are the ones who are going to have to train and rely on them in the field, so it is our choice.
A typical indoc will consist of multiple events. The first is typically a PFT (3 mile run, pull ups, and crunches) Followed by a movement (hike) to the field. Once there (anywhere between 5-20 miles) we will begin the indoc. You will be given basic classes, shoot, patrol, swim, tested, harassed, stressed out, little to no food, and even less sleep. The idea behind it is several things. How bad does he want it? Can he make it? How well can he learn the material? How does he handle stress? How well does he handle little sleep, food, being cold, tired, PERTURBED off, etc.
Once the indoc is finished, we will hold a personal interview with each person that still remains. This is usually also a uniform inspection (so don’t think you get to wear whatever you want as a sniper, we are still Marines and professionals!) During the interview the platoon will take turns getting to know you, hobbies, interests, etc.
After the interviews are done, we’ll decide who (again, if any) we want. Sometimes we may only need 1 or 2 new guys; sometimes we may need 6 or 10 new guys. So there is no telling. Oh, and yes you can take the indoc as many times as you want, we encourage it. If nothing else, you will learn a TON of stuff to use as a regular infantry guy.
Ok, so now we’ve finished the indoc and you are a proud member of the platoon. You’re a sniper….NOT!! First off, you are just in the platoon. Your training has only begun! Over the next 6 months (typically) you will continue to be assessed and trained. We try to make sure every guy that goes to sniper school already knows everything he needs to. There are limited number of classes and limited slots available, so no one wants to send a guy to school unless we know he can pass and he is ready for it. A typical class will have about 30 guys and usually about 10 or less graduate.
Marines Scout Sniper School used to be 12 weeks long, and now I think it’s about 10 weeks long. Remember, this is also just the Basic Sniper School. We also have an advanced Sniper school and Urban Sniper School (which are just extra training, etc)
You will go over all the same stuff Joe Mac discussed in his post, as well as mission planning, man tracking, and hide construction. As Joe said, the shooting is the easy part, it’s the rest of the “field craft” and mission planning that is the hard part.
During school you will write at least one (overnight) patrol order. A typical patrol order in school is about 100 – 150 pages (hand written) and covers a list of things to long to even touch on in here. As a Marine Sniper you will plan, co-ordinate and execute your own missions. You will be given a “task” by what ever unit you are working for. (i.e., watch this road, route recon, etc.) At that time you will then begin you planning, co-ordinate with other units, etc. Then go back and brief the unit commander on how you are going to conduct said task. No officer plans your missions!! So you damn well better know your stuff!! There were many times I stood in a room full of high ranking Marine Officers (I was an E-4) and had to tell them how I was going to do my job, explain to them why, and not look like a moron, be intimidated, etc. Then, I had to go out and do it! So if there were any mistakes, oversights, etc…it was on me. There is no one else to blame, so again, you better know what you’re doing!!
As for some of the differences between Joe and I. The Marine stalking is done very similar. The only differences I noticed were trivial. We have to get within 200 meters to take our shots instead of 300. (Does not mean we’re better than the Army, if you can get within 300, you can probably get within 200) Many times we were only about 100 yards out, if not closer, as I’m sure Joe did the same.
Joe didn’t touch on this, so I thought I’d bring it up. We also have to construct an overnight “hide” during our field-ex. This is a hole in the ground big enough for two snipers, all there gear, etc. It also has to be completely undetectable by the instructors. We will be given a general area to start our hide and we have one night to finish it. That means digging the hole, getting rid of the dirt, covering it, making a hidden entrance, etc (oh and this is all while still maintaining security!). Then in the morning, the instructors come out and try to find us. If they can see it we fail, if they walk on top of it and it bounces around…we fail and so on. Then once they can’t find us, we crawl out and let them see what we have constructed, and show off our monster sized blisters on our hands!
The final week of sniper school we have our “field-ex”, which is a week long, non-stop, go-go-go tactical field exercise. We have very little food, water, etc. We are basically treated like it is all real. Start to finish, from mission planning, to execution, to taking our final shot by stalking out, locating our target, taking it out and moving to our extract point without being detected. During this week you will typically cover about 200 miles of terrain and be carrying at least about 100 pounds of gear (probably more).
Anyway, that is the basics on becoming a sniper. Our gear is pretty much the same as the army with a few differences, as well as our training. I’m not sure how the Army Snipers operate, so I can’t say much about that. Typically Marine Snipers operate in a four man team (consisting of two 2-man sniper teams). As far as our missions, we do everything from recon, surveillance, over watch, forward observer for indirect fire, etc.
What we DO NOT do is…jump out of plains, scuba dive, etc. We live in the field! There is no unit within the US Military that is better in the field that a good sniper team. We have gone against Navy Seals, Force Recon, etc and have, more than earned their respect in the field. Granted….don’t ever ask a sniper how to clear a room, jump from a plain, or do any other high speed stuff, as that is not our purpose. Granted there are Force Recon guys, Navy Seals, etc that go through Marine Sniper School, but that does not mean they operate as a “Sniper”. If you want to be a sniper, I highly suggest joining a “Sniper Platoon” rather than another unit as described above. If you want to do the “cool stuff”, join Recon, etc.
If you have more specific questions let me know. Oh, and no we do not use "ice bullets", take meds to lower our heart rates or any of the other rediculous nonsense you see in video games/movies.
28 July 2008 - 05:21 AMok because i was talking to my dad (avid gun owner) and we were talking about something and this came up so thought id ask also what age did u join the marines and did u decide before u wanted to enroll in the scout/sniper training
I first went into the Marines at 19, at the end of the summer, after I graduated. At 20 I was in the sniper platoon.
26 July 2008 - 11:52 AMCarrying a pistol in paintball is totally up to you. Do you want to carry the extra weight that may get caught on things, weigh you down, lose, etc? If you are carrying an A5 for example, with a 200 round hopper, then I don't think a pistol is necessary. Even if your main weapons system goes down, I can't see you doing much with a pistol. If you have a longbow or something with a small hopper, a pistol might come in handy if you run out of ammo in a nasty spot, but it is all up to you.
In the real world we carry pistols because we are at a disadvantage because our rifles our either bolt action or kind of long. In a close quarters fight, a pistol is a good back up weapon because of its size. I usually try to carry an M4 on top of my sniper rifle for that reason. Trying to clear rooms, etc with a sniper rifle can be done, but it can be kinda bulky and not as effective.
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