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General Paintball Discussions (15 posts)
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User is offline Aug 14 2008 01:29 PM
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  1. In Topic: Quick angel question

    14 August 2008 - 01:24 PM

    View PostJonas, on Aug 8 2008, 12:41 AM, said:

    Have you checked their website/forum if they have one? That would probably be your best bet to find out.

    I don't know about threading, but on certain Angel models (older ones, like the LCD) you cannot use lower feednecks because there is not enough clearance for the breach to open.
  2. In Topic: Drop Zone Paintball ONLY allows Gravity Feed Hoppers at their Fields

    13 February 2008 - 10:18 PM

    View PostMeline, on Feb 13 2008, 05:57 PM, said:

    View PostCommander_Cool, on Feb 13 2008, 10:43 AM, said:

    View PostBassAckwardz, on Feb 6 2008, 12:21 AM, said:

    I play at this field and have for many years. I know Ken and Galen very well. This decision was not reached lightly or on a whim. I agree with them 100 percent, and I think it will end up being a great decision. The paintball industry is in for a very rude awakening whether we want to admit it or not. Without the new players that join our ranks, our great sport will die a painful and slow death. For it is these players that we need to nurture and teach, the right way, not the "AGG" way. I tell you what, I'll take my pump, and you take your semi, and you may get me half the time, but I will have shot maybe 20 balls to your 1000. In the end we need to make sure people have a great "experience" at our local fields, not walk away disgusted because they got lit up almost every game.

    And besides, wanna tell me what the freefall feed rate of a gravity fed hopper is? I think its still decent enough to feed any electro with eyes fast enough...

    Bass


    No it is a horrible decision. Lets see there are two main reasons that were stated as to why they are putting this rule into effect:

    1) Cost: decrease the cost to consumers.
    2) Enjoyment/ level the playing field/ etc

    To the first point I can only imagine these people have no concept of economics. If you decrease paint sales, you will have to buy paint in smaller quantities to sell (or if done on a national level, less paint will be produced), the increases the cost of paint to the business owner,... increasing the price he has to sell it to consumers at to maintain a profit.

    Additionally the cost of playing has not increased. What has increased is the amount of paint you get for your money. Initially paintball was a small hobby, and therefore paint was produced in small quantities, this required the paint to be sold at a higher cost per ball to turn a profit for the manufacturers or the fields. As players AND ROF have increased, paint sales have increased thus allowing the cost to be lowered to the consumer. Reverting to less paint for the same amount of money as previously does not really solve the cost problem.

    To address point two (and its relevance on point number one): the best option is to split into groups (low tech/ high tech). If there are not enough players to do this, then eliminating high ROF markers,... thus decreasing paint sales... will cut profits for field owner, and increase cost for the player, since there won't be additional players to make up the difference in paint usage.

    Additionally people that have spent 500 dollars on gear and play regulary are not going to like the idea that all the gear they just bought it essentially worthless. If possible they will be elsewhere, someplace where their investment is a benefit instead of an incredible waste of money. People generally do not like wasting hundreds of dollars for no reason.


    First off; If you make a reservation, play on non gravity hopper day, or play on the non-rec ball fields (X-ball at DZ) you can rip it up as much as you like. However IF you play on teh rec-ball field you will be playing with a gravity feed hopper.


    Second your economics are wrong.
    Instead of selling enterance fee to 10 people, who own their own gear, who buy a case of paint each; by making PB more fun for entry level players they are looking at enterance fees for 20 people, 10 gear rentals, and selling 1/2 a case of paint each. They have now doubled their entry fee earnings, got some return on their rental gear investment, and sold just as much paint. You tell me which is "better" for the field?


    Plus by making PB more enjoyable for entry players they have just added 10 new players to the sport.


    Yea, great except the same results can be obtained by breaking people into 2 groups. As to your points:

    1) This point is irrelevant to a discussion about walk-on recreational play. Anybody can make a reservation, and use any safe, commonly accepted equipment they want. However this takes planning, and simply knowing enough people who play. Lets say a player only knows 2-3 people.... and they spent 500 dollars on gear each, show up semi-regularly... don't you think it would be understandable if they wanted to play elsewhere after spending so much money on gear? The field had previously allowed the equipment. If they knew about the rules prior to buying gear, maybe you have a point... but essentially people paid money for a certain level of performance when they purchased their gear,... and the field tells them they can't use these features after the fact.

    Simplified: If I paid money for a feature, that is safe, and whose use is common practice in the hobby... I would want to be able to use the feature when I played. If the field owner does not wish to let me use it, that is their right, but that does not mean that I wuld have to go to their field.

    2) Or people with more skill still "own noobs" and the newer players still feel intimidated. That is is not an issue of being overshot, but an issue of constantly being eliminated with little or no effect on gameplay that discourages new players. Overshooting is just an additional gripe, however since most fields have a surrender rule, people are generally not close to the shooter when hit, and are rarely hit multiple times. Think about it... most new players are timid because they are unsure about how it feels to be shot. They tend to stay out of the action,... so typically when they get hit they arent being lit up by multiple players from all sides. You are far more likely to be lit up playing up front trying to be "agg".... and new players most definitely do not do that. So lets assume... you cut paint sales, with little or no increase in play, but now a greater increase in price for paint.
  3. In Topic: Drop Zone Paintball ONLY allows Gravity Feed Hoppers at their Fields

    13 February 2008 - 10:43 AM

    View PostBassAckwardz, on Feb 6 2008, 12:21 AM, said:

    I play at this field and have for many years. I know Ken and Galen very well. This decision was not reached lightly or on a whim. I agree with them 100 percent, and I think it will end up being a great decision. The paintball industry is in for a very rude awakening whether we want to admit it or not. Without the new players that join our ranks, our great sport will die a painful and slow death. For it is these players that we need to nurture and teach, the right way, not the "AGG" way. I tell you what, I'll take my pump, and you take your semi, and you may get me half the time, but I will have shot maybe 20 balls to your 1000. In the end we need to make sure people have a great "experience" at our local fields, not walk away disgusted because they got lit up almost every game.

    And besides, wanna tell me what the freefall feed rate of a gravity fed hopper is? I think its still decent enough to feed any electro with eyes fast enough...

    Bass


    No it is a horrible decision. Lets see there are two main reasons that were stated as to why they are putting this rule into effect:

    1) Cost: decrease the cost to consumers.
    2) Enjoyment/ level the playing field/ etc

    To the first point I can only imagine these people have no concept of economics. If you decrease paint sales, you will have to buy paint in smaller quantities to sell (or if done on a national level, less paint will be produced), the increases the cost of paint to the business owner,... increasing the price he has to sell it to consumers at to maintain a profit.

    Additionally the cost of playing has not increased. What has increased is the amount of paint you get for your money. Initially paintball was a small hobby, and therefore paint was produced in small quantities, this required the paint to be sold at a higher cost per ball to turn a profit for the manufacturers or the fields. As players AND ROF have increased, paint sales have increased thus allowing the cost to be lowered to the consumer. Reverting to less paint for the same amount of money as previously does not really solve the cost problem.

    To address point two (and its relevance on point number one): the best option is to split into groups (low tech/ high tech). If there are not enough players to do this, then eliminating high ROF markers,... thus decreasing paint sales... will cut profits for field owner, and increase cost for the player, since there won't be additional players to make up the difference in paint usage.

    Additionally people that have spent 500 dollars on gear and play regulary are not going to like the idea that all the gear they just bought it essentially worthless. If possible they will be elsewhere, someplace where their investment is a benefit instead of an incredible waste of money. People generally do not like wasting hundreds of dollars for no reason.

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