Special Ops Paintball: "Snipers" - Special Ops Paintball

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"Snipers" read it if u have an opion on snipers Rate Topic: ***** 1 Votes

#241 User is offline   GhostFlanker 

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Posted 26 August 2008 - 06:29 AM

I think the term is pretty self regulating. People will call you a Sniper if you play like one, if you don't people will just laugh as you call yourself a Sniper. That's what happens at my field.





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#242 User is offline   Jonas 

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Posted 26 August 2008 - 07:18 AM

There are snipers in paintball, just not the newbies that think it's cool to be one and talk all smack about playing on their first time out.

Sniping with guns is essentially the same thing as with paintballs, but snipers just take advantage of the far more accurate guns at their disposal to take out targets from a far distance. If paintballs were as accurate as real guns, I'm sure the same thing would happen, but the fact is that paintballs aren't accurate, so they must get closer. The only reason snipers shoot from so far away is because it's harder to be detected like that, but they don't go so far away that accuracy suffers, just a like a paintball sniper.

Does anyone remember when people still fought with muskets? There were snipers then too, they had the same accuracy, same ranger as the guns everyone else was using, aside from when they used rifles and bullets. They took advantage of their superiour PERSON accuracy, not the accuracy of their gun, to get close to their targets, hide, and shoot them when they least expected it.

It's annoying to hear opposer's of paintball sniping say it's not real because they don't shoot from a distance, or they can't shoot someone out on the first try. Well if you put a paintball sniper about 100 feet away from a target, I would say that's the equivalent of putting a real sniper 3 miles from their target, and telling both to take out the target on their first try.

There's my opinion.
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#243 User is offline   Ashrak 

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Posted 26 August 2008 - 10:36 AM

View PostJonas, on Aug 26 2008, 10:18 AM, said:

There are snipers in paintball, just not the newbies that think it's cool to be one and talk all smack about playing on their first time out.

Sniping with guns is essentially the same thing as with paintballs, but snipers just take advantage of the far more accurate guns at their disposal to take out targets from a far distance. If paintballs were as accurate as real guns, I'm sure the same thing would happen, but the fact is that paintballs aren't accurate, so they must get closer. The only reason snipers shoot from so far away is because it's harder to be detected like that, but they don't go so far away that accuracy suffers, just a like a paintball sniper.

As I've said, the longest distance of a paintball gun, where accuracy is a crap shoot, is 200 ft. Maybe more if you have an Apex (which I do), but all you can control is the general direction of the paintball. You move into 100 ft, and you have more accuracy, obviously. But even so, the projectile and weapon firing it can only be so accurate. And if you call shooting a target from 100 ft an act of "sniping" than that doesn't set the bar for snipers very high, does it?

Does anyone remember when people still fought with muskets? There were snipers then too, they had the same accuracy, same ranger as the guns everyone else was using, aside from when they used rifles and bullets. They took advantage of their superiour PERSON accuracy, not the accuracy of their gun, to get close to their targets, hide, and shoot them when they least expected it.

With muskets, the accurate range was just over 200 ft, and the maximum range was 654 ft. So the accurate range was still greater than the maximum non-effective range of a paintball gun. Additionally, snipers weren't as prevalent during the "musket era" as they now because of the ineffectiveness of their weapon and ammuniton. With the advent of true rifles, used in the Civil War, you began to see true snipers on the battlefield. We also cannot discount the effect of luck on a "snipe shot" when using a weapon like a musket of paintball gun. They really are nothing more then slightly glorified rifleman in that context.

It's annoying to hear opposer's of paintball sniping say it's not real because they don't shoot from a distance, or they can't shoot someone out on the first try. Well if you put a paintball sniper about 100 feet away from a target, I would say that's the equivalent of putting a real sniper 3 miles from their target, and telling both to take out the target on their first try.

The rifle I listed had a distance of about a 1/2 mile. Some can go farther. Because I'm a stickler.

Which shows just how much of a farce it is. A paintball sniper can shoot a target from 100 ft, maybe. Well guess what - a paintball rifleman can do the same thing. So there really isn't much difference between them, except one group (the rifleman) accept what they are, and the other group (the "snipers") want to be something they can't.

There's my opinion.

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#244 User is offline   mass destruction 

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Posted 26 August 2008 - 11:31 AM

the way i see it who cares if snipers do or dont exist, play how you play, if you play as a "sniper" and are effective, then nobody you have eliminated can say you dont exist. Im not a sniper or any other position, but like my sig suggests,

i dont give a damn
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#245 User is offline   wbsniper94 

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Posted 26 August 2008 - 12:54 PM

http://dictionary.re...m/browse/sniper

http://www.thefreedi...nary.com/sniper

http://www.merriam-w...ctionary/sniper


Granted, These are just three resources but I saw maybe two definitions that mentioned "long distance", yet everyone one of them made reference to "concealment". So as I see it, the term "sniper" is adaquate for this position.

I play the role sniper when I play paintball most often then not. I have seen the the benefits and the drawbacks of the position. I have learned that its takes skill, practice and a mindset. You cannot buy A sniper kit for your marker and a ghillie suit then walk out and see results, but you can play the position for years and use a cheapo marker from Wal-mart and see just why the postion rocks. If played correctly, a sniper can and will tear the OpFor apart. What better way to take out the enemy with a few shots as possible from a concealed position. As stated the definitions, Concealment is the main factor, not distance.

As for my opinion, Snipers are not overrated, they have a bad name because of all the new comers who try to play the position with a lack of respect and understanding of the position. Anyone who has taken the time to understand how to play the role knows that you cannot camp out in a bush for the entire game. You must move and you must position yourself to work with your team.

Most of the people that talk about snipers in the sense that they are useless have no understanding of how it is to be done. As far as I'm concerned, I will continue to play my position and enjoy every time I eliminate one of these "real" paintballers.
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#246 User is offline   M.O.P. 

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Posted 26 August 2008 - 01:32 PM

Wait you guys are saying all of my unnecessary mods on my a-5 dont make me a 1337 UbeR SnIPOrz??? :)
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#247 User is offline   Explosive 

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Posted 26 August 2008 - 01:59 PM

honestly - play how you want to play! people have opinions - whoopie!

in every position and with each and every "paintball" player there are different levels of skills.
there are pee-poor "riflemen" as there are pee-poor "snipers"
YES there are a lot of new players thinking they'll be a paintball sniper over night, dump a lot of money
into gear (some good, some worthless) and then be horrible at paintball sniping.


When I see a highly skilled, sneaky player in action, performing skills similar to a military sniper it's a thing of beauty!

Snipers are highly psychological tools on the field. That is a reason some people are so negative towards anything "sniper" related.

Years and years ago, before Spec Ops existed...there were very few players on the paintball fields in ghillies. Hell half the players
would ask what in the hell you were wearing and you would have to explain what a ghillie suit was. I know even back then
"snipers" were hated, and a highly prized target. I once shot a group of guys, eliminating most of them during a cat and mouse chase.
Two to three players finally rushed me and one of them finally eliminated me.
The player who shot me put his paintball marker high up in the air and celebrated my elimination, He even pointed his fingers towards
me and said he got the "sniper". I reminded him I took out 6 of his buddies in his group before being eliminated. This was a group of players
running a mission from their base. Now there were fewer players to run the mission.

I wear a ghillie once and awhile these days...but days when I don't and I'm being sneaky, taking careful, well aimed shots - I still hear the opposition yelling
"THERE'S A SNIPER OVER HERE!" after I pick off a player or two. I'm not in a ghillie, i don't have a rifle rag covering my marker. I'm wearing a set of regular spec ops digi's and shooting a very accurate, quiet Tac One marker. Yet still, even the opposition is calling me a "sniper"

When I'm not the "sniper" I hate 'em too! You're either getting ambushed by one, or chasing one through the woods instead of running a mission etc etc.

If you're practicing similiar field crafts of a military sniper, using camouflage effectively, being stealthy & sneaky, then by all means if you want to be a "paintball sniper"
then be one.

As for long distant shots etc. Sadly in paintball, there's not a great deal of differences in most paintball marker set ups. That shouldn't be the argument if
a player is a "sniper" or not. It really is about the field craft and using it effectively. Sadly a large portion of players that call themselves "snipers" are poor
at the position of being a "paintball sniper". On that note, that should not tarnish the players that are stealthy, sneaky and effective at doing just that. The players
who call themselves a "sniper", just to bypass the wordy, lengthy explanation of saying they are the sneaky SOB who shot you in the google while you were strolling down the trail.


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#248 User is offline   Phobeus 

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Posted 26 August 2008 - 02:03 PM

What I don't get is WHY people have to care so much about labels that they start debating the existance of a play-style. I play sniper, because I like doing the sneaky secret squirrel type stuff. I call myself a sniper, because well, it just feels good coming off the tounge and who else does all the sniper-ish things? Nobody, thats who. I won't debate with someone if I am or am not, either way I'm playing paintball. I don't call myself a marksman, because in paintball the objective is to "mark" your opponent with paint making everybody the same, trying to do the same thing. I don't always go out to shoot someone, I go out to sneak around and do recon, if I need to shoot I will, but I will do so with as little paint as possible. But also in the end if everyone played the same position no-one would argue about whether someone's made up position *broadsword, dagger, hammer, saber* is real or not. The only real position is Commander.

This isn't real life, it's a game, if you are fighting the existance of a sniper in paintball or you are fighting to recognize it's existance you are an idiot. I myself am an idiot for fighting about it in the past, so I'm not perfect.

So how about this "sniper"-haters:
"Sniper"-haters keep your "sniper" opinions to yourself and stop debating the existance of paintball "snipers".
If you feel the need to talk about the play-style and you want to say marksmen, just say marksman. Don't explain your opinion on why you shouldn't call them a "sniper", it'll only start a debate, which will digress, and everyone will start fighting and Puzuma will swoop in and close the thread and remind us that there are millions of other topics that have debated the existance of snipers. So in the end any helpful info from that thread is lost and someone will ask again, repeating the cycle.
Ohh and the whole dictionary deffinition thing is really old and stupid, it pertains to the real life sniper, not to us make believers in paintball. So stop.

Now for the paintball snipers:
Don't start arguing about the existance of sniping in paintball. We all know, as snipers, what we're capable of on the field compared to other scenario players. So why do we feel the need to argue? So don't say that they're wrong, just play.
Why do you feel the need to call yourself a sniper? Why can't you just say, "Hey, it's what everyone else calls what I'm doing. " and it be done? I know that at my field I'm known as THE sniper out there even though I know others play the "position", but the commanders know what I can do and send me to do what I'm good at. Prove yourself on the field, not on the internet.
Ohh and STOP USING DICTIONARY DEFFINITIONS!!!!!! IT'S REALLY ANNOYING AND THERE ARE A THOUSAND DIFFERENT VERSIONS!!!!!! sorry, it's just annoying...

ohh and for the snipers and anti-"snipers", there's a saying that I learned recently:
"Winning an arguement on the internet is like winning the special olympics, you may have won but you're still special"
So, lets stop arguing and go out and play, because in the end aren't we all paintball players?

This post has been edited by Aussie_bloke: 26 August 2008 - 02:29 PM

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#249 User is offline   Warpaint 

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Posted 26 August 2008 - 05:06 PM

I read some people here complaining about people being either for or against snipers...the sub-title of this topic encourages people to post their opinions...it doesn't say one's opinion needs to be pro or con. We may not like opinions counter to our own, but neither side should insist upon shutting the other down.

Getting back to the topic of opinions on snipers more specifically, I read some here keep insisting that distance is a critical element of sniping, and while being able to shoot a greater distance than your opponent is a fantastic advantage, distance is used by snipers (paintball or otherwise) to avoid detection or contact, not impress their opponent with their shooting skill or weapon capabilities.

Certainly, some weapon technology does allow a shooter to eliminate his target from beyond the "average" reach of his opponent, even in paintball, yet that does not necessarily make the shooter a sniper. It is the guerilla combat technique of sniping that earns that title or description. Just because a sniper can shoot his opponent from out of his opponent's reach, doesn't mean he can stand there in the open and expect to be effective, because once a sniper is detected, the elements of surprise and ambush are lost. Until a sniper's location is revealed, there is no safe place for his intended victims to hide.

This post has been edited by Warpaint: 26 August 2008 - 05:21 PM

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#250 User is offline   Ashrak 

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Posted 26 August 2008 - 05:58 PM

View PostWarpaint, on Aug 26 2008, 08:06 PM, said:

Getting back to the topic of opinions on snipers more specifically, I read some here keep insisting that distance is a critical element of sniping, and while being able to shoot a greater distance than your opponent is a fantastic advantage, distance is used by snipers (paintball or otherwise) to avoid detection or contact, not impress their opponent with their shooting skill or weapon capabilities.

Certainly, some weapon technology does allow a shooter to eliminate his target from beyond the "average" reach of his opponent, even in paintball, yet that does not necessarily make the shooter a sniper. It is the guerilla combat technique of sniping that earns that title or description. Just because a sniper can shoot his opponent from out of his opponent's reach, doesn't mean he can stand there in the open and expect to be effective, because once a sniper is detected, the elements of surprise and ambush are lost. Until a sniper's location is revealed, there is no safe place for his intended victims to hide.


Oh just say me. :D

In real military operations, snipers are set apart from the average rifleman by mission, training, equipment, and methods of attacking.
Snipers are pretty much (in my opinion) seperated into two tiers: Designated Marksmen, who play a support role in the conventional military forces, and Special Forces Snipers (for lack of a better term) who shoot frome extremely long distances. With either of these two classes, distance is a key part of their arsenal - they have weapons and optics which increase the range at wich they can engage. I know I'm sounding like a broken record, but bear with me.

I think the same should hold true for a Paintball Sniper. They need to have drastically different "missions" and weapons that set them apart from the average rifleman. Any rifleman can use stealth and concealment to mount an ambush - that isn't a task solely given to snipers. All players, in my mind, should use stealth and concealment to best engage the enemy. So essentially an entire team using guerilla tactics does not constitute a team of snipers. It is merely a team of rifleman using superior tactics.

Perhaps I am being too realistic, but I am hesitant to give the honor and title of a real life position to a recreational position that doesn't fit the same mold. In my mind, it falsely raises people's expectations as to the useability of the weapon, ammunition, and position.
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#251 User is offline   Warpaint 

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 04:47 PM

View PostAshrak, on Aug 26 2008, 08:58 PM, said:

View PostWarpaint, on Aug 26 2008, 08:06 PM, said:

Getting back to the topic of opinions on snipers more specifically, I read some here keep insisting that distance is a critical element of sniping, and while being able to shoot a greater distance than your opponent is a fantastic advantage, distance is used by snipers (paintball or otherwise) to avoid detection or contact, not impress their opponent with their shooting skill or weapon capabilities.

Certainly, some weapon technology does allow a shooter to eliminate his target from beyond the "average" reach of his opponent, even in paintball, yet that does not necessarily make the shooter a sniper. It is the guerilla combat technique of sniping that earns that title or description. Just because a sniper can shoot his opponent from out of his opponent's reach, doesn't mean he can stand there in the open and expect to be effective, because once a sniper is detected, the elements of surprise and ambush are lost. Until a sniper's location is revealed, there is no safe place for his intended victims to hide.


Oh just say me. :rolleyes:

Well, I don't keep very good track of who said what...it's the thought that counts!

In real military operations, snipers are set apart from the average rifleman by mission, training, equipment, and methods of attacking.

And paintball snipers are distinguished from the average paintball player in much the same way.

Snipers are pretty much (in my opinion) seperated into two tiers: Designated Marksmen, who play a support role in the conventional military forces, and Special Forces Snipers (for lack of a better term) who shoot frome extremely long distances. With either of these two classes, distance is a key part of their arsenal - they have weapons and optics which increase the range at wich they can engage. I know I'm sounding like a broken record, but bear with me.

I won't disagree with much of that, but my points are that distance is an element of maintaining cover, or evading contact...not an absolute requirement on every mission, and that distance is relative.

I think the same should hold true for a Paintball Sniper. They need to have drastically different "missions" and weapons that set them apart from the average rifleman. Any rifleman can use stealth and concealment to mount an ambush - that isn't a task solely given to snipers. All players, in my mind, should use stealth and concealment to best engage the enemy. So essentially an entire team using guerilla tactics does not constitute a team of snipers. It is merely a team of rifleman using superior tactics.

I don't disagree with most of that either, but sniping is a form of guerrilla combat. Sniping is a technique of engaging the opponent.

Perhaps I am being too realistic, but I am hesitant to give the honor and title of a real life position to a recreational position that doesn't fit the same mold. In my mind, it falsely raises people's expectations as to the useability of the weapon, ammunition, and position.


I don't know, one of the things I like about scenarios is the realism, but I have to remind myself that there are people out there that do it for real...there's a difference between emulating and impersonating. For me, "war" is a game I play...for others it's life and death. Some people definitely get carried away. But more to your point, why hold paintball snipers to any different level of scrutiny or criticism than any other paintball position...they're all make believe after all. How "real" is that guy with the double-trouble? For many of us, paintball is an opportunity to play the part of whatever hero or warrior we see ourselves as...but we don't have to worry about getting dead while doing it.
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#252 User is offline   Ashrak 

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Posted 28 August 2008 - 10:06 AM

View PostWarpaint, on Aug 27 2008, 07:47 PM, said:

I don't know, one of the things I like about scenarios is the realism, but I have to remind myself that there are people out there that do it for real...there's a difference between emulating and impersonating. For me, "war" is a game I play...for others it's life and death. Some people definitely get carried away. But more to your point, why hold paintball snipers to any different level of scrutiny or criticism than any other paintball position...they're all make believe after all. How "real" is that guy with the double-trouble? For many of us, paintball is an opportunity to play the part of whatever hero or warrior we see ourselves as...but we don't have to worry about getting dead while doing it.


Well I agree with that. I like having the command structure of a scenario to play with, with real missions to go after. However, one thing that rubs me the wrong way is people saying "We're getting killed out there!" or "Time to go to war." or other comments to that effect. A joke I make to myself when I hear people talk about the D-Day Scenario is "Really? Where's the water?" I know it is a game, and I know they know its a game, but I don't like to people lose themselves in a game, especially when they are people who do it for real, with real bullets. So keeping a firm grasp of what is in real life (we'll take snipers) vs a paintball is one way I do that, and try to have others do that.
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#253 User is offline   SFREAK 

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Posted 13 September 2008 - 07:29 PM

i have to agree on the fact that a sniper in paintball is not a long distance shooter i think in paintball if someone reffers to themselves as a sniper they probably should instead of saying "sniper" say "ambush sniper" which is basically what the sniper position in paintball entails.
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#254 User is offline   Phobeus 

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Posted 13 September 2008 - 07:30 PM

but ambush sniper doesn't roll off the tounge like just saying sniper.
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#255 User is offline   Satan Von Chaos 

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Posted 13 September 2008 - 07:45 PM

View PostReb, on Feb 16 2007, 02:20 PM, said:

Ghostinthewood is gonna kill me over this one, but my 2 cents are as valuable as anyone's I suppose.

Is the position overrated? Absolutely.

As someone mentioned, there are no ballistic advantages that a paintball 'sniper' has over any other player in the field, with that being said, what exactly separates them from everyone else? From where I stand....not much if anything but a mentality fostered by movies and retail companies.

There are so many people out there that have watched "Enemy at the Gates" and the history channel special on Snipers too many times and are enthralled with the idea of being the ultimate weapon, regardless of how impractical it is in the paintball world.


In the 10 years that I've been playing I've never seen the 'sniper' role pulled off effectively. Most of the time, the kids who are engrossed with the idea, leave their team shorthanded and understrengthed, and are often eliminated because their ghillies are mismatched with their environment, or they're overrun by faster players. Sometimes, they manage to be the last ones left on their team, a factor which they attribute to their stealth, but from what I've seen, its usually because the game has moved outside of their crawl range, and now the other team has to go find them.

Ghillie suits, which they believe are essential, make them slow, and easy to spot when they're moving around, and with the effective range of the paintball marker, when a player closes in on their position enough that they can get a shot off, they are as easy to spot as a player wearing regular woodland camo.

The 'sniper ethos' that they live by, stealth, recon, ambush.....etc....are all things that EVERY player has to do in order to be good at the game.

I've been told by snipers that what sets them apart from everyone else is the way that they take 'stealth' more seriously than other players.

Do they actually EXIST in paintball? Maybe, but as far as I'm concerned, until I see one played successfully, I'm going to classify the probability of their existance in the same bag as the loch ness monster.

What I have a problem with, is not what they decide to call themselves, but is the manner in which they defend their beliefs. As soon as someone calls into question their 'existance' they become angry and "You're just jealous" and "You're just a wannabe" and "Not everyone is cut out to be a sniper." I've actually read in the sniper HQ that "If people doubt our existance, then we're doing our jobs." How do these arguments counter such things as ballistic information which negates long shots, excessive camo, and concealment points?

And, I've noticed, especially around here, as soon as you start to debate, you're shut down, almost as if you aren't allowed to disagree with the positions that have been created by television and propagated by Special Ops and other paintball retailers who are seeking to make a buck by selling ghillie suits and useless sights to paintball players.


In fact, I can almost bet that this thread will be shut down ASAP because we're beating the dead horse, no matter how logical and civil a debate we may be having.

Its been nice knowing you, I'll probably be knocked down for being an agitator.



You've made some pretty good statements here, and I totally respect your opinion. Yet the only fault I see here is if you're in a game and get tagged out, chances are, you probably won't know off-hand if it was a sniper or not. A good sniper wouldn't jump up and say " HA HA I GOT YOU AND I'm A SNIPER!".

In the world of paintball, I can see how many can neglect the usefulness of a sniper. Based on equipment only, you can argue that, in the truest definition of a Sniper, in paintball there is none. Yet what Special Ops has done with its tactics is draw out the basic characteristics of a sniper and forge it into the realm of paintball. That meaning more emphasis on tactics rather then that long distance one shot kill. This in hopes that one person can tie a group down due to confusion and fear. Isn't this the basic definition of a sniper?

So maybe its more of an issue with calling a person a "sniper" that gets people all up in arms, but what else would you call it? And if there one term that you can think of that can negate the need for the title sniper then wouldn't that same philosophy be applied to all the positions special ops created?

Hmm, wouldn't be much fun there.

Just a thought.

SVC
SATAN VON CHAOS

Oh yes, leave whatever soul you have left in the field man, I'll be collecting it along with your pride.
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