Special Ops Paintball: What is a Paintball Sniper? - Special Ops Paintball

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What is a Paintball Sniper? Read this and find out what we really are... Rate Topic: ****- 7 Votes

#31 User is offline   stealthyeliminator 

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Posted 21 December 2006 - 06:07 PM

I'm not questioning your "existence." I'm questioning the word you choose to call yourself.

But I'm not here to tell you not to call yourself a sniper. I don't really care. And I know you probably don't care if I don't call you a sniper.

The purpose, or at least part of the purpose of this topic was to convince people there are "snipers." Or, more correct, that the proper term for the style of play is the word sniper. Correct? I'm telling you why you aren't convincing.

Besides, why are questioning me? Just because I disagree? I could understand it if I was trying to cause problems or something. But for that post? Why?
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#32 User is offline   ghostinthewood 

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Posted 21 December 2006 - 06:17 PM

View PostPhillips, on Apr 20 2006, 05:45 PM, said:

Well I have a dictionary infront of me that doesnt describe it in those ways. I was mearly trying to make a point of having NO debate. We could cal them sharpshooters though you dont have to have range for that.

You dont for snipers either. Range is a thing that has only recently been associated with snipers. This means for their 200+yr history, only about 1/6 of that has been closely associated with range. 1/6 Isnt a lot for the 5/4 of you who dont understand fractions.

They didnt define sniping, they got it refined for the Marine Corp., as they believed they didnt need snipers.

Mr. Hathcock, and others, have said its pointless to take 1000+m shots when you could walk and easy 2-400 more meters without being deteced from that distance. Sure range was an advantage for them, but against Ak's that outranged our M16's(400m). Not to mentions the snipers, if you have read all the books, faced Quads. Those were anti-aircraft weapons. So, that brings the range out even farther. Not to mention his favorite poison was the Browning .50. Thats a machine gun.

If you had done your research and read more than just the adventures about Mr. Hathcock, then you would have known that for awhile the Marine snipers were using M1C's and D's. These are simply modified M1's with basically a cheeck piece and a scope. Those are the same weapons that were used for basic Infrantry in Korea and WWII. You could go all the way back through time and find that most sniper rifles are just modified infrantry rifles. There were countless muzzleloaders that people used during the first few wars that shaped our nation, that people called snipers because they were consistant. Look at Davy Crockett. He used a muzzeloader, thats all there was. However, hes known as a great shot. Of course you can make custom handloads and this and that but he wasnt a gunsmith nor had the tools to do this. He just did what he did because he practiced that way.

Heres a short list to back myself some on infrantry gone sniper.

Lee Enfield Mk 1 - Lee Enfield Mk1(T)
Springfield - 1903A4
Mosin Nagant - Mosin Nagant 1891-30
M1 - M1D
Galil - Galil Sniper Rifle
AK - Dragonuv SVD/SVU/VSS/VSK
M14 - M21/M25
Mauser 98 - Mauser SP66/Mauser 86SR
G3 - PSG1/MSG90
AR-15/M16 - AR-10/SR-25

As you can see, our last 3 assault rifles have sniper rifle counter parts. The Ruskies have us beat with their AK turning out 4 sniper rifles.

Also, as a kinda side note, the Barret series of .50's were made as a lighter, more mobile, version of the Browning Ma Deuce. So that means the Browning machine gun has turned out the M82's, M90, M95, M99, M500, and inspired the 20mm M107 whenever production begins on it.

Then you have all sorts of G3's, Mausers, and tons of WWI area guns used in WWII as bolt action sniper rifles.

If Mr. Hathcock were around, I'm sure he woudl agree, that today's military snipers arent what they used to be. They're using .50 weapons, not because its more effcient, but because they can. In Nam and other conflicts if you ahd to lug that thing around and then try to hide its report, then you would get blown to bits the moment after the bullet hit its target. Sure they have the range, but theres not as much skill involved as there used to be. However, once we go back to Korea that will change. Thats another debate however.

In any case, until recently, snipers were going back to the original meaning. Snipers originally got their name from the Snipe birds they had to have skill to hunt and shoot in and around British occupied India(if memory serves). They were hunters with a good shot. Not a long shot mind you, you couldnt see the birds from too far a distance. Nowadays most of the sniper rifles are built on sporting rifle actions. HK has their own line of sporting rifles closely resembleing some of their military rifles. Even at that I've of heard people using the world renouned PSG-1 as a hunting rifle for larger, faster, game. Then theres companies like CZ, Savage, Saco, Beretta, Springfield, Mauser, Walther, Armalite, Winchester, and Remmington who all make hutning rifles, are making military rifles. Aside from a few finer points here and there the rifles are the same. After all, the original M40 was a tuned Remmington 7000, after it beat out the Winchester 70, with an Unertl 10x scope. One of my buddies dad has the same set up, except prolly tuned better. Disregarding the fact that he's a police sniper, would he be a sniper? Better yet, what about one of my other buddies who's dad has an M24, AR-15 and 10? Is he a sniper? He has the range and he can use it well, but hes not a sniper.

Quote

Besides, why are questioning me?
Why are you questioning me?

Quote

Just because I disagree?
Look at all the reasons everyone thinks paintball snipers exists, everyone has different points. The people that 'agree' dont agree as to why. So that cant be the case.

Quote

I could understand it if I was trying to cause problems or something. But for that post? Why?
Easy, your saying you dont agree with a large number of people as to why they call themselves what they've been calling themselves forawhile. Luckily they're not a majority, otherwise they might have their own forum with sub forums! *Gasp* :dry:

This post has been edited by ghostinthewood: 21 December 2006 - 06:46 PM

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Guerillas arent endangered, they're just hard to find...sXe
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#33 User is offline   HeadshotPhantom 

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Posted 21 December 2006 - 06:19 PM

View Poststealthyeliminator, on Dec 21 2006, 07:07 PM, said:

I'm not questioning your "existence." I'm questioning the word you choose to call yourself.

But I'm not here to tell you not to call yourself a sniper. I don't really care. And I know you probably don't care if I don't call you a sniper.

The purpose, or at least part of the purpose of this topic was to convince people there are "snipers." Or, more correct, that the proper term for the style of play is the word sniper. Correct? I'm telling you why you aren't convincing.

Besides, why are questioning me? Just because I disagree? I could understand it if I was trying to cause problems or something. But for that post? Why?

You posted, and I answered. If you can't handle someone questioning you, then don't post. That's how you debate...So what would you call us? We wear ghillie and shoot from a concealed location. What do you think our name should be? Anyone can point out something wrong, but do you have a worthy replacement?

This post has been edited by ghostinthewood: 21 December 2006 - 06:34 PM

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#34 User is offline   Ruckus Fox 

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Posted 21 December 2006 - 06:27 PM

My de-bunking blog. Don't hate me, hate the facts.

http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseacti...64-6fe0f17d6f07

--Ruckus
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#35 User is offline   SWATORNOT 

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Posted 21 December 2006 - 06:39 PM

View PostRuckus Fox, on Dec 21 2006, 06:27 PM, said:

My de-bunking blog. Don't hate me, hate the facts.

http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseacti...64-6fe0f17d6f07

--Ruckus

:huh: I saw really nothing that we haven't heard before as to why the sniper doesn't exist. You tossed in a Tyger video (which BTW is a mere OPINION) of a player. Tyger states himself that it is his own view of the sniper, he is not the "all-knowing-master," though pretty close.

You only emphasized the opposite of what was defined in this very thread. You took the first half of the definition of sniper, and went with that, yet you, like so many others forgot the key part...this is a game called paintball. Apply the word before the sniper and magic happens...don't lump the two into the same category because it only becomes a broken record that we would all rather melt.

*EDIT - We don't hate you, or your facts, mainly because the facts aren't accurate as you are basing your opinion of a military sniper, not a paintball sniper...

*2nd EDIT - Oh, the last tie I check the dictionaries, the term sniper never even had a defined shooting distance either...+2 for us!

This post has been edited by MONITOR: 21 December 2006 - 06:42 PM

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#36 User is offline   Ruckus Fox 

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Posted 21 December 2006 - 06:42 PM

*shrugs* Never said it was anything new. =P I mostly just wrote it for friends. Decided to just link to it rather than yap about it some more.

--Ruckus
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#37 User is offline   ghostinthewood 

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Posted 21 December 2006 - 06:50 PM

View PostRuckus Fox, on Dec 21 2006, 06:42 PM, said:

*shrugs* Never said it was anything new. =P I mostly just wrote it for friends. Decided to just link to it rather than yap about it some more.

--Ruckus

I really didnt see any facts, just some things that have been twisted. Refer to my post for a post that's porbably filtered of most opinion. :huh:
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#38 User is offline   SWATORNOT 

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Posted 21 December 2006 - 06:51 PM

View PostRuckus Fox, on Dec 21 2006, 06:42 PM, said:

*shrugs* Never said it was anything new. =P I mostly just wrote it for friends. Decided to just link to it rather than yap about it some more.

--Ruckus

Yea I hear you, but let me play the devil's advocate since you mention other positions in that blog. I have friends who are EMT's, and two class mates in Iraq who are also Medics. Is it also not *shivers*, politically correct *shivers*, to call a paintball player who punches a card, or wipes paint off a fellow player a medic? We aren't doing field surgery, nor are we bandaging up a player's limb. We aren't wiping up blood, but simply paint, from the game of paintball...

I see you are from South Dakota as well. Let me use that as an example for you and others. Why is it that the two Dakotas (clearly have differences), can be recognized as North and South, why is it the North and South American Continents can be recognized separately but the simple variations of a word cannot. I mean, we can with words like pre-test, test, and post test with obvious definition differences because of the accompanying word or tag. The word sniper in this case has just the same ideal with the accompanying tag of "Paintball" which segregates the primary word sniper from paintball sniper.

This post has been edited by MONITOR: 21 December 2006 - 06:52 PM

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#39 User is offline   HeadshotPhantom 

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Posted 21 December 2006 - 07:10 PM

Only MONITOR could make it so complicated...
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#40 User is offline   SWATORNOT 

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Posted 21 December 2006 - 07:36 PM

You know headshot we could get you a connect the dots book for Xmas
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#41 User is offline   HeadshotPhantom 

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Posted 21 December 2006 - 07:42 PM

See Mr. Complicated. You couldn't call me stupid, you had to make it creative and complicated. :ninja:
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#42 User is offline   Ruckus Fox 

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Posted 21 December 2006 - 07:43 PM

Wow. =P So much tension...so much sarcasm. I love it.

Ghost- I thought there were a few facts in there. Longistics. Ghillie. Snipe-bird. Those are facts, not opinions. And yes, Tyger's video is an opinion, but then again, so are your views, and so are mine.

Yes, while you are most definately correct on the whole "Medic and EMT" thing, I think we just sort of do that for simplicity sake, honestly. I mean, do you know the resources it would require to take a paintballer and put him on stretcher between two medics and take him back to the hospital to be re-inserted? =P

Being Dakotans doesn't really change anything, Monitor. I honestly don't know why there's a North and a South, maybe there was a secret civil war fought here too? Hehe. Maybe it's religion. Who knows. Thing is, despite where we live, I am -very- different from you.

Examples
-I'm furre. Most Dakotans are not.
-I'm a democrat. Most Dakotans are not.
-I'm pro-choice. Most Dakotans are not.
-I'm bisexual. Most Dakotans are not.

We have different views because we have different minds. The human race is a thinking race, not a surviving one, sadly. We exhaust resources, we kill the earth, but hey! We can still pick things up and type, right? =P

--Ruckus

Edit:
-I'm also Agnostic/Athiest, if that makes any difference. Most Dakotans are Catholic or some other form of Christianity. =)

This post has been edited by Ruckus Fox: 21 December 2006 - 07:44 PM

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#43 User is offline   ghostinthewood 

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Posted 21 December 2006 - 07:51 PM

View PostRuckus Fox, on Dec 21 2006, 07:43 PM, said:

Wow. =P So much tension...so much sarcasm. I love it.

Ghost- I thought there were a few facts in there. Longistics. Ghillie. Snipe-bird. Those are facts, not opinions. And yes, Tyger's video is an opinion, but then again, so are your views, and so are mine.

Longistics? Refer to my infrantry - sniper rifle section of the book i wrote in post #32. Snipers, are in short, hunters. Refer to the end of what I said in said book. I play with that mentality when I'm balling. I'm hunting people. After all, they are the hardest game to hunt.

Edit* Managed to screw up the quote. >_<

This post has been edited by ghostinthewood: 21 December 2006 - 07:54 PM

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#44 User is offline   SWATORNOT 

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Posted 21 December 2006 - 08:04 PM

View PostRuckus Fox, on Dec 21 2006, 07:43 PM, said:

Ghost- I thought there were a few facts in there. Longistics. Ghillie. Snipe-bird. Those are facts, not opinions. And yes, Tyger's video is an opinion, but then again, so are your views, and so are mine.

Yes, while you are most definately correct on the whole "Medic and EMT" thing, I think we just sort of do that for simplicity sake, honestly. I mean, do you know the resources it would require to take a paintballer and put him on stretcher between two medics and take him back to the hospital to be re-inserted? =P


Clearly you missed the bus on my points Rukus...

Fact -
Paintball-
1.) A game in which players on one team seek to eliminate those on an opposing team by marking them with a water-soluble dye shot in capsules from air guns.
2.) The dye-filled gelatinous capsule shot from guns in this game

Sniper-
1.) A skilled military shooter detailed to spot and pick off enemy soldiers from a concealed place.
2.) One who shoots at other people from a concealed place.

Opinion-
"sniper's don't exist in paintball, you are doing something close to it"
"snipers don't exist in paintball because you cannot shoot 1000 yards"
"snipers don't exist in paintball because you there is no such thing as one shot one kill in paintball"
"snipers don't exist {insert reason here}

Fact -
Correct, snipers do not exist in paintball, but paintball snipers do exist in paintball.

It's the very same principal as I stated before, do I need to draw the connection for everybody. I mean, certainly you have taken, or passed an English class or two right? I am sure you like others understand what things called "prefixes" and "suffixes" are right?

Well, North is a prefix for one of the two Dakotas. Dakota is a suffix. I mean, why not just say you are from Dakota? Because you aren't, you are from South Dakota.

Now, if it is not too difficult, apply that principle to this issue. Take the prefix, in this case the word paintball, then add the suffix sniper and you get something completely different from the word sniper, you come out with Paintball Sniper which takes on a whole different definition.

Need further clarification? Lets do this exercise;

South Dakota

North Dakota
Clearly two different definitions for what is essentially the same words


Still not convinced? Ok, let me blow you minds away with this neat little thing; READ ME
...wow, isn't English amazing... :(

This post has been edited by MONITOR: 21 December 2006 - 08:14 PM

<div align="center"><b><a href="http://forum.specialopspaintball.com/index.php?showtopic=79662" target="_blank">How-To: Flatline Barrel</a> <a href="http://forum.specialopspaintball.com/index.php?showtopic=79663" target="_blank">How-To: Polished Internals</a>
<a href="http://forum.specialopspaintball.com/index.php?showtopic=72814&hl=How-To" target="_blank">How-To: Vest Care 101</a> <a href="http://forum.specialopspaintball.com/index.php?showtopic=79660" target="_blank">How-To: Start Your Own Team</a> <a href="http://forum.specialopspaintball.com/index.php?showtopic=79661" target="_blank">How-To: Ghillie Mask</a>
<a href="http://forum.specialopspaintball.com/index.php?showtopic=78548" target="_blank">Silencer Laws</a> <a href="http://forum.specialopspaintball.com/index.php?showforum=61" target="_blank">Forum FAQs</a>
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#45 User is offline   euglow54 

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Posted 21 December 2006 - 08:29 PM

really informative post. as a medium rifleman, I understand the importance of the many positions in paintball. my only arguement with this is the fact that you call the sniper a glorified position. It is not, nor has ever been, a glorified position. When snipers were first utilized during the revolutionary war, they were considered cowards and gutless. Then, when the sniper was used during WWI, they were disbanded after the war because no one saw use in their abilities. It was only after the second wold war that US military intelligence saw use in the position of the sniper. Only in the last 50 years has the sniper become an acceptable military position.

Other than that, great post!
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