[Meline]

What paintball isn’t
So like I said, I’m playing this Sat and along with our usual crew I’m bringing some new players out for their first time playing paintball. Now over the last few days I have heard all kinds of crazy stuff. I have heard how they are going to go all Rambo, shooting out everyone, while rappelling down the sides of buildings. About how they are going to make the Special Forces look like amateur hour. Well the bad news is paintball isn’t war and putting on a mask isn’t going to turn you in to a super ninja, nor is it going to make you Chuck Norris. You are not a hard core as you think you are and you aren’t going to do as well as you think either.

Your first time playing you are going to get shot out; a lot. You’ll hang out of bunkers too far and get hit. You’ll think you are faster than you really are and get hit trying to run to bunkers that are too far you to make it. You’ll shoot over the top and get hit. You’ll try and hang in a firefight you can’t win instead of tucking in and snap shooting and you’ll get hit. You’ll get tunnel vision and get hit by guys you didn’t even know where there. In short: you’re going to hit, a lot…

So while you are going hit a lot and your ego is going to get bashed as you realize you are not the Rambo you thought you were; you’ll also have some other experiences as well. You’ll get the adrenalin rush of being shot at, and from shooting at another human being. You’ll have people giving you pointers when you get shot out to help you stay in longer. You experience the comradely of playing as part of a team. You’ll have people loaning you gear so you can see what different guns shoot like and what different mask are like. You’ll have a ton of fun and you may even get to shoot your boss (but don’t count on it because I’ve been playing awhile but who knows anything is possible). At the end of that first day you’ll have some stories to share, some sore muscles in places you didn’t know existed, and like the members of that “Fight Club” movie when you see the guys you played with, or against, at the store or around town you’ll give each other that head nod knowing that you were there, that you did it, and that you are a part of the brotherhood paintball.

[Meline]

Really? More padding? Why even play??
So I don’t know if you guys have noticed but over the years the amount of padding on paintball clothing has gotten out of hand. So I can see padding on knees and shins. I can see padding on your fly to protect your junk. I can see pads on your shoulders for guys who cry about their vests hurting them and I can see pads on your elbows for protection. But now it’s getting out of control. Jersey’s that have shoulder padding, chest padding, side padding, forearm padding, Upper-arm padding. It’s crazy how much padding the new jerseys have on them. How can this crap even be legal? You might as well play paintball in puff jacket with a logo on it.

[motherboard1]

Meline, on 28 March 2012 - 02:47 PM, said:

Really? More padding? Why even play??
So I don’t know if you guys have noticed but over the years the amount of padding on paintball clothing has gotten out of hand. So I can see padding on knees and shins. I can see padding on your fly to protect your junk. I can see pads on your shoulders for guys who cry about their vests hurting them and I can see pads on your elbows for protection. But now it’s getting out of control. Jersey’s that have shoulder padding, chest padding, side padding, forearm padding, Upper-arm padding. It’s crazy how much padding the new jerseys have on them. How can this crap even be legal? You might as well play paintball in puff jacket with a logo on it.

I agree with your stance on padding.
When I started playing paintball 10 years ago, it was expected to hurt, you were going home with welts and that was that. Gotta put the pain back into paintball. padding makes you sweat, promotes bounces and sometimes prevents you from realizing your hit. That shouldn't be the goal of any peace of gear.

Another example of Companies trying to get players to spend their money on what they want, rather than what they need.

[Krazy8]

The padding drive is being controlled by the tourney players.
The fact is that properly used padding bounces hits. Hence the rules being rewritten every year to stop players from end running with a new trick.

With most leagues moving to the single layer rules it has become ever increasingly popular to pad that layer. The new rules are starting to address the thickness of that single layer now.

I wear elbow/forearm pads as well as knee/shin pads. I am also a very aggressive player and don't mind low crawling 20 or 30 yards to get the drop on key positions. And who doesn'tdive for cover every now and again. I also wear a Turtle cap....but that comes from having my bell rung one to many times!
If the field conditions did not require it however, pads would not be on my list of gear...hot, they slide around and are a whole nother thing to clean.
Perhaps if I wore pants when I played.....

This post has been edited by Krazy8: 28 March 2012 - 05:32 PM

[Meline]

Youth + inexperience + 2:1 odds and Semis VS Pump = Not enough to beat experience
So had a great day of playing, got my butt handed to me a few times by the regular crew. Gave them some in return. But at the end of the day I got to break out the traccer and play some 2:1 with some of the new kids. It was fun and we had a good time, hopefully they learned "the player >>>(and may-be a few more "greater thans" for good measure)than what the player is shooting" rule.

[Meline]

The “Image” of our sport
This is one of those hot button topics and it seems everyone has an opinion about it. Over the years I have heard it all so let’s just start here.
1. No matter how you slice it paintball is people with guns shooting each other. That the guns shoot relatively harmless paint fill spheres, or that you call the guns “markers” instead of guns, it still does change the fact that you are still shooting each other with a guns. As such you will NEVER make this sport seem less “war like” to the average person. So having people dress up like they are in the army or dress up in tourney gear has no effect on how people see the sport. So I don’t buy in to the notion that milsimer’s hurt the image of paintball.
2. Tourney paintball is not ruining the”image” of paintball either. Sure it gets more exposure so when a player does something stupid than make us look bad people talk about more than they do about a woodsball player who does the exact same thing. The fact is people wiping, playing on, acting like little children throwing temper tantrums, or just plain bad sportsmanship hurts the image of paintball and it occurs just as much in the woods as it does in the air field.
3. A few days ago at HB there was an incident where a player on the losing team bonus balled, and badly bonus balled, another player after the game had ended. He knows what he did was wrong and to his credit he apologized for it. Doesn’t make it right, nor does it changed what happened but the after effects, to me, show what is killing the image of paintball.

What is killing the “image” of paintball is the lack of integrity of the paintball community.

A player does something that is clearly wrong, the player himself admits what he did was wrong, and yet you have people come out of the woodwork (for whatever reason) to defend, excuse, or blame others for what happened. It’s sadly comical. I actually read a post that said, “The damage players were running after the buzzer, since physics is a part of our everyday doings, they stayed in motion until they slowed down... The XSV player felt that he was going to get lit up, and decided to shoot first.” Because we all know that inertia causes us to aim a gun at somebody and pull the trigger after the game has ended (by the way if you watch the video the horns blow ending the game, the XSV player gets out of his bunker with his marker down when he gets lit up so this guy’s entire post is BS).

Or “that the pressure of playing at that level caused it to happen so it’s not his fault”…. Really? Do we hold other people who work under stress accountable for their actions. Soldiers and Police Officers don’t get to say that even though they clearly were in the wrong that it’s not their fault because of the pressure they shot somebody and they are under WAY more pressure than some paintball player playing a game (even if it is Nationals). Paintball I the only sport I know of that people will openly defend people who break the rules. No one is held accountable. In paintball you can do whatever you want and people will support it. People get caught wiping and instead of being labeled a cheater you get “It’s a part of the game; don’t hate the player, hate the game”. BS. No wonder why paintball has a “image” problem it’s a sport where cheating is openly allowed and nobody cares.

But it’s not only the players, the Co-Coach goes out of his way to defend and excuse what happened. Dude, even your player said he was in the wrong. No wonder you’re players have no integrity because you as a leader have no integrity and they are just following your example.

Bottom line is IF you want to improve the “image” of paintball than hold people accountable for their actions, prove to people that this game is actually a sport (with rules that people actually follow) instead of just people shoot each other. Because right now what I see in more like WWE than a real sport. No wonder we have a image problem.

This post has been edited by Meline: 03 April 2012 - 10:21 AM

[stinkfingr]

Meline, on 03 April 2012 - 01:19 PM, said:

Bottom line is IF you want to improve the “image” of paintball than hold people accountable for their actions, prove to people that this game is actually a sport (with rules that people actually follow) instead of just people shoot each other. Because right now what I see in more like WWE than a real sport. No wonder we have a image problem.

There you have it ... the crux of the biscuit, as they say... The WWE has openly admitted that they do not consider themselves to be a sport. They are an "Entertainment Package". Therefore a lot of the rules and sanctioning that would go on in other sports simply does not apply to them.

So is paintball a sport, or is it an entertainment ? Until there is a sanctioning body that steps up and takes over rulings for behaviour, and gameplay, and puts standards that every field can and will follow, then we are an entertainment.

Those WWE wrestlers are phenominal athletes in their own right, but they do not participate in a sanctioned sport. The same would be true for paintball. There are many, gifted, great athletes that participate in paintball, but the lack of a governing body makes it an "Entertainment Package". ..... imo

[Meline]

klaatu, on 03 April 2012 - 12:23 PM, said:

Meline, on 03 April 2012 - 01:19 PM, said:

Bottom line is IF you want to improve the “image” of paintball than hold people accountable for their actions, prove to people that this game is actually a sport (with rules that people actually follow) instead of just people shoot each other. Because right now what I see in more like WWE than a real sport. No wonder we have a image problem.

There you have it ... the crux of the biscuit, as they say... The WWE has openly admitted that they do not consider themselves to be a sport. They are an "Entertainment Package". Therefore a lot of the rules and sanctioning that would go on in other sports simply does not apply to them.

So is paintball a sport, or is it an entertainment ? Until there is a sanctioning body that steps up and takes over rulings for behaviour, and gameplay, and puts standards that every field can and will follow, then we are an entertainment.

Those WWE wrestlers are phenominal athletes in their own right, but they do not participate in a sanctioned sport. The same would be true for paintball. There are many, gifted, great athletes that participate in paintball, but the lack of a governing body makes it an "Entertainment Package". ..... imo

Paintball as a sport or recreation depends on how you look at it. If you are playing "Outlaw" with your buddies its recreation the same way playing football with your buddies at the park is recreation. If you cheat at football with your buddies they may not like you but that’s about as far as it goes.
If you're playing a league such as PSP, NPPL, etc. you're playing a sport. There are a written set of rules you are supposed to follow, you are even paying money to pay for the infrastructure for the game. It’s like a summer baseball league. If you’re caught cheating in baseball what happens? You get ejected from the game. People “Boo” and you hang your head in shame. Why because you are cheating. You are breaking the rules you agreed to play by when you signed up. You get caught cheating in paintball and what happens? You get pulled from a game but you’re right back in for the next round. People cry about “you actions being a part of the game” and to just live with it. It’s that attitude that is killing paintball’s image.

[stinkfingr]

There are people cheating in all of sports. Once they get caught, if proven, they face the penalties that those sports authorities have deemed as necessary. As soon as they have fulfilled the terms of said penalty, they are welcomed back enthusiastically.

Whose fault is it that the penalties in organized paintball aren't more severe ? Maybe the governing bodies think that harsher penalties would be detrimental to the fragile structure of a "sport" still struggling to make identities and icons. In every sport, as it got bigger, the penalties for infractions got heavier, because the sport could endure it and recover from it.

I think the attitude you talk about is more pronounced amongst the fan than it is the player. As a fan, i get all upset about certain rules violations and infractions in football, but the players just move on. I just don't agree that this "attitude" is what is killing paintball. It could be a participating element, but I think it would be a small one. It really doesn't bother me. There will always be cheaters, no matter what you play.. cards, tiddlywinks, but if i want to play, it wont stop me.

[stinkfingr]

Alot has been said about player apparel, player conduct, and the state of paintball recently. When an industry, or a business is getting started, if they have already chosen their main stream product line, the next task goes to choosing a demographic, and then marketing ( mining ) that demographic.

To me, the only real demographic in paintball has to be young kids. In there lies the most bang for your buck. Older men are not going to quit what they already have setup as their hobbies ( which they probably established when they were 10 - 12 years old, or close to it ) to go out and play make believe army. Some may do it, because they like the adrenaline rush it provides, but by and large, that market is tapped out. So you have their children. But playing army is not all it was once cracked up to be. Now you have to make it fun, and what 10 - 12 year old kids do you know that want to go out and get hurt, bruised and have welts ? Not too many, I would presume.

So clothing with lots of padding I dont have an issue with. Perhaps they should sell particular sizes with it ... youth sizes ... if you get a lot of bounces, then they'll just buy more paint, or learn that they have to be closer than 4 bunkers away to make that kill shot. But it has to be fun. And it has to be marketed as fun. Why get off of the couch from playing a networked game of COD with their buds, where they can be as tough, and trash talking, and make spectacular moves and go away with no welts ... as opposed to getting those welts ? I say let them wear life vests if they want to, to get them started. After a while, they will start to trim it away on their own to gain stealth or speed. But marketing is going to be the key, and it has to target the youth. Bright, flashy colours ? ok ... fast guns ? ok ... change the way respawns are done. nobody wants to go sit in the staging area for all of the game if they get shot out early or in the initial rush. I am sure there are tons more, you'd have to get inside the heads of 10 - 12 year old kids ( That could be a scary place .. haha ). I certainly don't have those answers, but i do think that is where it needs to head to stay relevant, and alive.

just my opinion

[Meline]

Tank shmank
So I have been lucky enough to have played in games with tanks. I’ve played in games where the tanks had to follow roads and I’ve played games where the tanks could run free across the field. Now I’m not a “tank hunter “, in all my piles of stuff you will not see a Nerf launcher; but I by no means am afraid of a tank. Which brings me to my rant…

Every game I have played that allowed tanks whenever a tank would show up on the field people would scatter and run away like scared little kids. To me this is crazy and counter-productive. So what if you don’t have a Nerf gun? So what if you can’t “stop” the tank? You can still slow it down, paint splatter the crew enough that they can’t see the guy with the Nerf gun who is about to take them out. If nothing else at least give the rest of your team, who are hiding in the woods, something to talk about. Show them that paintball is just as much about “heart and cahonez” as it is about “skill and luck”. Even if you do get shot out, which happens (a lot sometimes), you can say that “you stood your ground and held the line”. I view it as a challenge, like David Vs. Golliath. If I lose it’s a short trip to the dead box but if I win, if I hold the line, if I force that rolling bunker to have to stop and deal with me, if I do what others are afraid to do I feel like I’ve done something.

So next time you are playing and you see that tank rolling your way. Stand your ground and make them pay for every inch they take. You may get shot out but trust me; you’ll feel better about yourself for doing it.

[^!)]

Quote

It’s like a summer baseball league. If you’re caught cheating in baseball what happens? You get ejected from the game. People “Boo” and you hang your head in shame. Why because you are cheating. You are breaking the rules you agreed to play by when you signed up. You get caught cheating in paintball and what happens? You get pulled from a game but you’re right back in for the next round. People cry about “you actions being a part of the game” and to just live with it. It’s that attitude that is killing paintball’s image.

....if I may.



I know of several college-level pitchers who will often throw a baseball at the batter. Not "to" the batter, but "at" him. The batter gets hit, and then he takes a base. Nothing happens to the pitcher. Is intentionally hitting, and potentially seriously injuring another player, considered cheating? Meh, gray area. Baseball players accept the risk, and move on.

When I play paintball, I expect to be cheated at some point during the day. I really don't care about winning a walk-on game enough to complain. Tournaments are different, and that's what good reffing is for (which can be found in good tournaments). It's part of the game, albeit an unfortunate one.

Paintball's image is not injured by a player wiping a hit, or doing one of the hundreds of cheats I've seen, done, and even practiced doing with some of my old teams. If someone is clever enough to catch, or care enough for it to matter... then they're already playing paintball, and already enjoying it. I've never heard of someone quitting paintball because his friends wiped a hit once too many. It's usually a myriad of reasons, and some guy cheating is not at the top of the list.

What you must understand is that Paintball's Image is what outsiders see. They see a gunfight... so.... the problem with paintball is that it's paintball, and the very nature of the game is what harms its image.




You wanna know my rant?

Whiners. If you're losing games and always blaming the other team (who obviously must be cheating, or shooting too fast, or using better gear), then it just means that you suck at paintball, and can't come to terms with your own hubris. I call people like that "toolbags". Except... a cool sounding synonym of "container for excrement" in place of "tool".

If you suck, then get better.
If you don't know how to get better, then ask.
If you don't know who to ask... well, then your google-fu is lacking.

Paintball is a simple and easy game, and I have no idea why people get so uptight about everything.

This post has been edited by ^!): 18 April 2012 - 02:41 PM

[motherboard1]

^!), on 18 April 2012 - 02:40 PM, said:

Quote

It’s like a summer baseball league. If you’re caught cheating in baseball what happens? You get ejected from the game. People “Boo” and you hang your head in shame. Why because you are cheating. You are breaking the rules you agreed to play by when you signed up. You get caught cheating in paintball and what happens? You get pulled from a game but you’re right back in for the next round. People cry about “you actions being a part of the game” and to just live with it. It’s that attitude that is killing paintball’s image.

....if I may.



I know of several college-level pitchers who will often throw a baseball at the batter. Not "to" the batter, but "at" him. The batter gets hit, and then he takes a base. Nothing happens to the pitcher. Is intentionally hitting, and potentially seriously injuring another player, considered cheating? Meh, gray area. Baseball players accept the risk, and move on.

When I play paintball, I expect to be cheated at some point during the day. I really don't care about winning a walk-on game enough to complain. Tournaments are different, and that's what good reffing is for (which can be found in good tournaments). It's part of the game, albeit an unfortunate one.

Paintball's image is not injured by a player wiping a hit, or doing one of the hundreds of cheats I've seen, done, and even practiced doing with some of my old teams. If someone is clever enough to catch, or care enough for it to matter... then they're already playing paintball, and already enjoying it. I've never heard of someone quitting paintball because his friends wiped a hit once too many. It's usually a myriad of reasons, and some guy cheating is not at the top of the list.

What you must understand is that Paintball's Image is what outsiders see. They see a gunfight... so.... the problem with paintball is that it's paintball, and the very nature of the game is what harms its image.




You wanna know my rant?

Whiners. If you're losing games and always blaming the other team (who obviously must be cheating, or shooting too fast, or using better gear), then it just means that you suck at paintball, and can't come to terms with your own hubris. I call people like that "toolbags". Except... a cool sounding synonym of "container for excrement" in place of "tool".

If you suck, then get better.
If you don't know how to get better, then ask.
If you don't know who to ask... well, then your google-fu is lacking.

Paintball is a simple and easy game, and I have no idea why people get so uptight about everything.

This is entirely different on a couple of levels.

For one thing. The game of baseball, everyone is watching, so when a pitcher beams the batter for example, its long been accepted as part of the game, there is a cost/benefit and the game "continues to function" on the whole.

Paintball ceases to function when cheating is rampant. Especially on the "game" side of things where they're isn't a referee at all, let alone one per player.

Ever play online shooters back when "hacking" was rampant? Remember how fast one wall hacking, aim boting douche could clear out a server?

[^!)]

motherboard1, on 19 April 2012 - 03:03 PM, said:

This is entirely different on a couple of levels.

For one thing. The game of baseball, everyone is watching, so when a pitcher beams the batter for example, its long been accepted as part of the game, there is a cost/benefit and the game "continues to function" on the whole.

Paintball ceases to function when cheating is rampant. Especially on the "game" side of things where they're isn't a referee at all, let alone one per player.

Ever play online shooters back when "hacking" was rampant? Remember how fast one wall hacking, aim boting douche could clear out a server?

Paintball ceases to function when cheating is rampant, but so does any other game. If you find yourself in a game where everyone cheats, all of the time... then leave. Just like a computer game, just like anything.

None of that has anything to do with paintball's outer image, though.

[stinkfingr]

this ^^^