[Killwar]

Okay, this is annoying me. Is barrel length measured with the threads or without them?

[slinkyaroo]

Depends on the company. There is no standards.

[Killwar]

oh okay. thank you

[Tenacious221]

I say pull it out, stand it up against a wall...and see how tall it is.

-Tenacious

[Assasin2213]

I would assume that it is measured with the threading since that is part of the barrel. But just pant sizes, it probably varies between companies.

[Shipwreck!]

The measurement should include the threads. If some companies don't measure that way, they're doing it wrong.

Generally speaking the whole point of measuring barrel length is to determine muzzle velocity/energy and by extension various range/power potentials. Meaning that given a set charge of propellent a barrel of X length will be allow for A muzzle velocity/energy meaning you can expect on average C range. You get a longer barrel with the same charge, well that longer barrel contains the charge over a longer duration and thus transfers more energy from the charge to the projectle and thus accelerates that projectile to a higher muzzle velocity and thus increases the potential range of that projectile, therefore: The thing that's relevent here, what you really want to know when you're asking about barrel length is: Exactly how far does the projectile travel while contained within the barrel? If there's some barrel inside those threads that the projectile actually travels down then that measure of length is relevent and needs to be included in the overall barrel length. That said, NONE of this applies in paintball. Because in paintball you're not given a preset and uniform charge of propellent. The charge of propellent is determined by the velocity setting on the marker, and can be adjusted. More importantly even than that, is this: muzzel velocity, and therefore range potential, is more dependent on the size of the charge than it is on the barrel length, when both are variable. I don't know the exact physics here, but I do know that with actual firearms, doubleing barrel lenth does increase muzzle velocity significantly, but it doesn't even come close to doubleing the velocity. Meanwhile doubling the charge, does come a hell of a lot closer to doubleing velocity than doubling the barrel length. So it's clear to see that in paintball where velocity can be adjusted, by increasing or decreasing the propellent charge, barrel length has nothing to do with range. So here's a rundown of how it works:
Range is determined by muzzle velocity (and environmental factors).
Muzzle velocity is determined by some combination of barrel length and propellent charge.
BUT muzzle velocity is actually determined MORE by propellent charge than barrel length.
So where both are variable charge is by far the more important factor, and since it can so easily be adjusted to make up for barrel length problems, barrel length in terms of determining range, just doesn't matter... at all.

But technically the only right way to measure barrel length is to measure actually the internal bore length of the barrel, which would included the outside threaded portions of it. It's just the whole point of measuring barrel length has always been determining range, and in paintball barrel length doesn't so there's really not much point at all in doing it. Unless you're trying to figure out the ideal air efficiency. Which you're probably not because even the smallest air bottles provide hundreds and hundreds of shots and barrel length effects on efficiency is only going to increase or decrease that number in I don't know... tens or something, so that doesn't matter much either. The internal workings of the paintball gun itself are much more important to consider when thinking of air efficiency than barrel length ever will be. But technically there is an ideal barrel length where the 280 feet per second paintball velocity limit can be reached with the least ammount of propellent. So barrel lenth does matter in paintball technically in that one and only tiny way.

So if you're tying to get the right air efficiency, which is the only time barrel length matters at all, then the important thing you want to measure is internal bore length which includes everything the paintball passes through that contains the gas pressure behind it, and that includes the threaded portion of the barrel.

Conversely, in this scenario you don't want to measure any thing protruding from either end of the barrel that doesn't contain that gas pressure. For example a muzzle break releases the gas pressure behind the ball and thus doesn't factor into efficiency considerations in paintball, or velocity considerations in the real world. So either way, don't measure that if you want to do it right.

Of course if your main consideration is an issue of manuverablility then you're really only interested in how far the barrel protrudes beyond the body of the gun (really this is the more important question in paintball, overall barrel length doesn't matter so much when you consider that all makers are firing at the same velocity [280fps] with the exact same range potential excepting a few tricks like First Strike paint projectiley thingys [since they're not spherical, and calling them rounds like their manufacturer Tiberius does is a misnomer in that they are not self contained with their own propellent, they are not rounds only projectiles], flatline and apex barrels in which case still the same range potential within each catagory regardless and entirely independent of barrel length), but then you're not really asking, "How long is the barrel?" but rather, "How far does the barrel stick out from the gun?" instead.

So still the right way to measure "barrel length" is always to measure the totall length of the bore including the portions thereof contained within the threaded segment of the barrel.

But like I said, what you might call "barrel protrusion" is a more important question in paintball since range is independent of barrel length thus rendering the question of barrel length a moot point. For example guy with 20" barrel and guy with 3" barrel both fire at the same 280fps muzzle velocity, meaning both achieve the exact same range, all other considerations equal, so guy with 20" barrel has a massive manueverability dissadvantage with no range advantage to show for it, pretty pointless but you see it all to often. Or not often enough if your strategy is to draw them into some close quarters environment where the odds will be stacked in your favor.

This post has been edited by Shipwreck!: 11 February 2012 - 09:32 PM

[stinkfingr]

i disagree

[Shipwreck!]

Are you saying that you believe barrel (internal bore) length effects more than just air efficiency? Or that barrel protrusion does not effect maneuverability?

[Simmons]

Shipwreck!, on 11 February 2012 - 10:26 PM, said:

But like I said, what you might call "barrel protrusion" is a more important question in paintball since range is independent of barrel length thus rendering the question of barrel length a moot point. For example guy with 20" barrel and guy with 3" barrel both fire at the same 280fps muzzle velocity, meaning both achieve the exact same range, all other considerations equal, so guy with 20" barrel has a massive manueverability dissadvantage with no range advantage to show for it, pretty pointless but you see it all to often. Or not often enough if your strategy is to draw them into some close quarters environment where the odds will be stacked in your favor.

I went straight to this. Can't imagine why whether a barrel is measured with/without the threads would be that important. Would like to know why Killwar asked the question.

[Krazy8]

So how do you measure the barrel length of a barrel that has no threads?!
Or a barrel that is part of the gun and not removable?

One way to look at it also would to look at the operation of the gun using the barrel. Length may be measured from the point of the operating system actually be used as a barrel. Confused? Many closed bolt guns actually use the barrel as part of the breech. Pushing the ball into the base of the barrel prior to releasing the air from the valve and shooting the ball.
So is that section to be considered barrel when it is actually breech?
Even open bolt systems do this somewhat so where is the point of measure to be determined from?

Every company has their own way...and if their way is off by an inch it really is not going to effect the performance by enough to measure from the shooters perspective.

[stinkfingr]

anytime i have sold a barrel, i give the measurements of the threaded and the unthreaded part. I really want to know howmuch will extend out past the thread when i buy a barrel. I do not get too concerned about the length of the threading

[Shipwreck!]

I'm just saying technically speaking the proper way to measure barrel length would be to include the full internal bore length included the threaded portion.
But I'm also saying measuring barrel length hardly matters in paintball anyway, unless you're really trying to dial in your air efficiency.
Protrusion from the gun is much more important to manuverability and doesn't effect range, so that's really the most important question.

Krazy8 makes a really good point. I don't even know what to do with that. Is there a ballstop inside the barrel in that case? Sounds weird to me. Paintball guns are weird!

[Krazy8]

Yeah Palmers Pursuit Inc makes that system. The detents are in the barrel...they are called wedgits. The design uses the barrel as the breech. Eliptical honing....brass to gelatin coefficient...spiral venting and yhe weight of the barrel itself add up to an amazingly accuate barrel that does not care what paint you use.

I only brought it up becuase I never figured out how they measure barrel length either!

[Legato]

Ill measure when i go home. My blazer was sold to me with an 11" barrel according to them. Wedgits are 1" in or so. Ill also measure the Short n nasty which is supposed to be dual 4" barrels. See where 4" ends up


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