Special Ops Paintball: Tacticool 6 : Top Sniper Competitions - Special Ops Paintball

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Tacticool 6 : Top Sniper Competitions Rate Topic: -----

#46 User is offline   Warpaint 

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Posted 12 August 2011 - 07:25 AM

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I figured 'Sniping' had nothing to do with distance, but rather hitting a target from a concealed position. From what is gathered based on definition people have quoted, it fits.


Distance is a relative term, and with regards to sniping, an element of stealth. Snipers engage targets from a distance for the same reason they use camouflage, cover, or suppression devices...to minimize odds of detection and engagement.

Tyger, unfortunately you kind of have to take a loss on this one. I understand where you are coming from in regards to some ridiculousness in the idea of a being a 'Sniper' in paintball but I think you are mainly attacking the typically portrayed and overly glorified image of what a Sniper is in media. The image usually associated is a long barreled rifle, ghillie suit, scopes, and red dots.

I think this is one of the issues...people on both sides get caught up in their own paradigms. Maintaining a hard line or having a strong opinion on something doesn't mean you're right...committed maybe, but not right. Tyger obviously has a lot of strong opinions based upon his experiences or understanding, but those are not the same as everyone else's, and while his opinions may be "right" for Tyger in his world or from his perspective, these are not necessarily "right" for anyone or everyone else. In Tyger's paintball world, there are no paintball snipers. His world is flat, or at least flatter than those whose worlds have paintball snipers. In some people's worlds, paintball snipers wear ghillie suits and powerful, carry specialized, accurate markers, and crawl for hours to find the right hiding spot, while in other's, that person has a marker pretty much like everyone else's, but that person wraps their marker and themselves in a sniper veil and hides behind a bush along a busy path, while others still just quickly find themselves a nice fat tree to pick off a few players here and there. In some people's paintball world, there are no tanks, Generals or any other officers or rank, spies, heavy gunners, mines or grenades, demolition experts, beaches, landing crafts, POWs, clowns, robots, Viet Cong, Nazis, Russians, aliens. Predators, Lara Croft, James Bond, CEOs of evil corporations, cross-dressers, castles, villages...or people wearing parts of stuffed animal costumes attached to their camouflage. A lot of that isn't my "cup of tea", but who am I or anyone else to tell people how they should play paintball in their world, attempt to impose my experience upon them and insist they reside within my paradigm, and convince them I am acting in their best interests to defend them from some evil marketing scheme? I guess in some people's worlds, there are no fat people in McDonalds, just hapless victims of a massive fast food marketing scheme! If we have determined we must crusade against evil marketing schemes, I think I would choose one a little more meaningful than a position a handful of people in paintball game might play. There's a lot of ridiculousness in paintball, but I don't think it's confined to the people dressed like snipers. As I said before, those are my observations based upon my experiences and paradigm...not necessarily right or wrong, just how things are in my paintball world.


This post has been edited by Warpaint: 12 August 2011 - 07:28 AM

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#47 User is offline   Eskimo 

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Posted 12 August 2011 - 07:31 AM

Its not that we are trying to Abolish everything "sniper" its just that we get a little "pushed back" When we hear someone say "they" and by they, they point to themselves, and possibly a few others. to earn the title "Sniper" But when you look at all the players, We all do that anyways, No sometimes we dont have sights (my phantom has no Ghost ring... but I would like to try one...) My automag never had a scope, Nor did my Cocker. I just looked down the barrel. Got an idea of where the paint was falling, and adjusted.

I just think players should not be so quick to point out themselves as snipers, when everyone on the field does it too.
It reminds me of a dude on the bench at a football game yelling "Coach Im going to play football position!" if that analogy makes some connections.




View PostTyger, on 12 August 2011 - 12:23 AM, said:

But I'll state it again. If they wanna be paintball snipers, I wanna be a paintball Eskimo.

I'll dress in mukluks, carry a spear, and know 30+ words for snow too! But that does not make me an Eskimo. I need to be much wordier to do that. *ZING!*
-Tyger


Thanks man.

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#48 User is offline   reef geek 

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Posted 12 August 2011 - 08:53 AM

I don't get why people are arguing over the name. The name doesn't mater, we are supposed to be arguing over the existence of paintball snipers (or what ever you want the name). I just want to prove to people that you can have a playing style that resembles a sniper in the real world, and those doing it should get more respect. That at no means makes it the same as a REAL sniper, which people have to get over. If your going to put a title on it, it would make more sense to call it a sniper or stalker. It's like saying some one who has a marker that shoots 30 balls a second isn't a machine gunner because he isn't shooting a real machine gun. You got to get over the titles, the whole point is people can use tactics in paint ball that are similar to real sniping such as stealth, adjusting more for windage, and specific tactics. Those people call them selves paintball snipers because the name makes sense to the role they are playing. Those people are wanting respect for the skills they poses and the work they did to do so. If the name sniper is to offensive to you, just call us stalkers or something and stop hounding on our playing style.

This post has been edited by reef geek: 12 August 2011 - 08:54 AM

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#49 User is offline   Warpaint 

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Posted 12 August 2011 - 09:32 AM

View Postreef geek, on 12 August 2011 - 11:53 AM, said:

I don't get why people are arguing over the name. The name doesn't mater, we are supposed to be arguing over the existence of paintball snipers (or what ever you want the name). I just want to prove to people that you can have a playing style that resembles a sniper in the real world, and those doing it should get more respect. That at no means makes it the same as a REAL sniper, which people have to get over. If your going to put a title on it, it would make more sense to call it a sniper or stalker. It's like saying some one who has a marker that shoots 30 balls a second isn't a machine gunner because he isn't shooting a real machine gun. You got to get over the titles, the whole point is people can use tactics in paint ball that are similar to real sniping such as stealth, adjusting more for windage, and specific tactics. Those people call them selves paintball snipers because the name makes sense to the role they are playing. Those people are wanting respect for the skills they poses and the work they did to do so. If the name sniper is to offensive to you, just call us stalkers or something and stop hounding on our playing style.



Mostly it's an ego/pride thing, although people will deny that, which is again, and ego/pride thing! If it wasn't, people wouldn't emotionally invest themselves so much in something that has pretty much zero physical impact upon them, and turn it into a personal crusade. The anti-sniper camp percieves that either 1.) snipers are really somehow superior to them, or 2.) that anyone claiming to be a sniper is insinuating that they are superior to non-snipers in some way. The typical counters to this injury/insult/disrespect are: 1.) there's no such thing as paintball snipers, 2.) you can't be a paintball sniper because your marker doesn't shoot farther than theirs, 3.) paintball markers are too inaccurate, 4.) the sniper position and/or all positions are hype, 5.) people calling themselves sniper are not qualified/certfied to be snipers, 6.) it's disrespectful to real snipers or real military (although it seems otherwise OK for them to emulate real soldiers), and 7.) they've been playing 20 years, and have never seen a paintball sniper. Maybe it's really that people haven't seen any good paintball snipers, or have seen people playing the paintball sniper when it wasn't right for the situation. I've never seen the Earth from space myself personally, but I do believe it is round. Some people still insist it's flat, or even that there are holes at the poles! I can try and convince them otherwise, but mostly I just nod my head and walk away in situations like that. I just accept the fact that when people start feeling better, they stop taking their meds! I think people take this position thing way too seriously. Me myself, I've seen some good snipers, and I've seen some bad ones. I never called myself a sniper, but I played one a couple of times when asked, and it was just OK...not enough action for me. Regardless of all that, if I can get you to play and join in the good time , I don't really care what you call yourself...just cooperate and support the team objective when we get out in the field, or play for the other team. If you're not cutting it in the position you take for yourself, we'll let you know. If the sniper thing don't work out like you planned, you can still play with the rest of us...maybe you'll have better luck next time.

;)

This post has been edited by Warpaint: 12 August 2011 - 09:52 AM

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#50 User is offline   Thalion 

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Posted 12 August 2011 - 09:33 AM

Aha. You've finally hit one of the real issues. The real reason the so-called "sniper" community is all upset every time this discussion comes up, and the reason every new kid in paintball wants to be a "sniper."

View Postreef geek, on 12 August 2011 - 10:53 AM, said:

I just want to prove to people that you can have a playing style that resembles a sniper in the real world, and those doing it should get more respect.


(emphasis mine to prove a point)

I'm going to ignore the argument about a player "Who resembles a sniper in the real world" because honestly, no, they don't. I have yet to meet a single "paintball sniper" who remotely resembled a true sniper. Add on the fact that you yourself say "it's not the same as a real sniper" and I wonder why you keep flipping back and forth. Either "paintball snipers" resemble real ones or they don't. Quit flip-flopping between whichever it is that happens to suit your argument the best.

Now, the real issue -- it's all about you (the player who wants to be a "sniper" ) thinking you are somehow entitled to extra respect on (and maybe off?) the field. It's the whole reason the sniper conversation comes up - certain people just want respect they didn't earn by pretending to be something they are not.

Respect is earned, not given. I'll show all people common courtesy until they act differently, then I'll modify my response as they earn. You and your friends want respect? Then quit trying to stand up on the false quick-way-to-fame "sniper" platform, get out to the paintball field, and play some ball.

How you play the game of paintball is not something worthy of respect. Only results count. I have never met someone who called themselves a "sniper" who was able to command respect with results in the field. I can think of some sneaky guys, and some ones who can get a lot done in an hour at a scenario game if given a task, but not one of them is a "sniper."

Quote

It's like saying some one who has a marker that shoots 30 balls a second isn't a machine gunner because he isn't shooting a real machine gun.


Does anyone honestly call people shooting those "machine gunners"? Seriously? I think this is the first time I've heard that term outside of a bunch of renters who are playing their first game.

Quote

Those people call them selves paintball snipers because the name makes sense to the role they are playing. Those people are wanting respect for the skills they poses and the work they did to do so.


No, they don't call themselves "snipers" because the name makes sense.

By your own admission, it's all about getting "more respect."

And I already covered the real secret to respect, but in case you missed it: Deliver on the paintball field. Show your skill by getting things done. Guarding a path that nobody (or only one or two) uses, camping around, etc. is not getting anything done and is not "securing" that area. Unless a mission says "occupy HERE for X minutes", there's no reason to do it.

Anyone who uses the word "sniper" loses respect in my mind because they're trying to cover a lack of something (what I'll leave up to you) with buzz words trying to sound cool. It's not cool, it's childish.
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#51 User is offline   reef geek 

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Posted 12 August 2011 - 10:00 AM

That's the thing, you only base your opinion of a paintball snipers on those you've met. Stop insulting us until you have meet us, not some random guy on your local field. You say it takes no skill to be a sniper, well tell that to me after I get behind the enemy without them noticing and taking 2-5 of them out. It also takes skill to have some one walk close enough to you that you can barrel tag them. I might only have two years under my belt, but that doesn't mean I have no skill. To clarify what I meant earlier, paint ball snipers show similarities to real snipers, but they are not the same. I don't see how that goes against it's self. Make note you keep on saying that I rely on the title for my respect... that makes no sense since i keep on saying I don't care about the title. You guys like to twist words to your advantage without looking at the real meaning. Also, quit demanding my respect if your not willing to respect me and my opinion. There is no reason for you to be hounding on us since we did nothing to you. Your acting like little kids.
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#52 User is offline   The Stuntman 

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Posted 12 August 2011 - 10:06 AM

Quote

Does anyone honestly call people shooting those "machine gunners"? Seriously? I think this is the first time I've heard that term outside of a bunch of renters who are playing their first game.



Special Ops - Heavy Gunner

and while we're at it....
Special Ops - Ambush/Sniper

Carry on... B)
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#53 User is offline   Warpaint 

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Posted 12 August 2011 - 10:33 AM

Quote

Aha. You've finally hit one of the real issues. The real reason the so-called "sniper" community is all upset every time this discussion comes up, and the reason every new kid in paintball wants to be a "sniper."

View Postreef geek, on 12 August 2011 - 10:53 AM, said:

I just want to prove to people that you can have a playing style that resembles a sniper in the real world, and those doing it should get more respect.


(emphasis mine to prove a point)

I'm going to ignore the argument about a player "Who resembles a sniper in the real world" because honestly, no, they don't. I have yet to meet a single "paintball sniper" who remotely resembled a true sniper. Add on the fact that you yourself say "it's not the same as a real sniper" and I wonder why you keep flipping back and forth. Either "paintball snipers" resemble real ones or they don't. Quit flip-flopping between whichever it is that happens to suit your argument the best.

Now, the real issue -- it's all about you (the player who wants to be a "sniper" ) thinking you are somehow entitled to extra respect on (and maybe off?) the field. It's the whole reason the sniper conversation comes up - certain people just want respect they didn't earn by pretending to be something they are not.

Respect is earned, not given. I'll show all people common courtesy until they act differently, then I'll modify my response as they earn. You and your friends want respect? Then quit trying to stand up on the false quick-way-to-fame "sniper" platform, get out to the paintball field, and play some ball.

How you play the game of paintball is not something worthy of respect. Only results count. I have never met someone who called themselves a "sniper" who was able to command respect with results in the field. I can think of some sneaky guys, and some ones who can get a lot done in an hour at a scenario game if given a task, but not one of them is a "sniper."

Quote

It's like saying some one who has a marker that shoots 30 balls a second isn't a machine gunner because he isn't shooting a real machine gun.


Does anyone honestly call people shooting those "machine gunners"? Seriously? I think this is the first time I've heard that term outside of a bunch of renters who are playing their first game.

Quote

Those people call them selves paintball snipers because the name makes sense to the role they are playing. Those people are wanting respect for the skills they poses and the work they did to do so.


No, they don't call themselves "snipers" because the name makes sense.

By your own admission, it's all about getting "more respect."

And I already covered the real secret to respect, but in case you missed it: Deliver on the paintball field. Show your skill by getting things done. Guarding a path that nobody (or only one or two) uses, camping around, etc. is not getting anything done and is not "securing" that area. Unless a mission says "occupy HERE for X minutes", there's no reason to do it.

Anyone who uses the word "sniper" loses respect in my mind because they're trying to cover a lack of something (what I'll leave up to you) with buzz words trying to sound cool. It's not cool, it's childish.



As Thalion states, respect is earned, and it usually not taken when earned, but bestowed. It is bestowed in exchange when others acknowledge receiving it from you, or in recognition of achievement or success. When your action or behavior is consistent with your words, you earn people's trust, and along with that, respect. A lot of people will presume to demand respect by presenting or claiming some credential, qualification, certificate, or experience, but until the "rubber hits the road", but what does any of that mean here? It's one thing to call yourself something, and a lot of people will let things go at that, but when you begin to become insistent, someone will inevitably call you on what you represent yourself to be.

To be honest, sometimes I think people "bite" on things way too easy, or presume it's their duty to set people straight,with the truth, or at least their version of it, but that's the risk you take when you post things here. I'm not always successful, but I try to live by a saying: "The bigger the duck, the more water rolls off the duck's back." A big duck isn't afraid of a little water, and isn't going to get all carried away at the first sign of bad weather. People will look up to the big duck, not the little ducks flapping around wildly. Most people expect some reaction when they post here, unfortunately, you can't always expect people to agree with you or your opinion, and when that happens, sometimes people take that personally, or get personal. Tyger is very committed to his beliefs, and he can be very vigorous when sharing these. While his intentions may be good, others are sometimes insulted by his delivery. Getting a rise out of people may be his intent, or it may be that he doesn't know his audience as well as he thinks. Was he really surprised that someone did not share his opinion and responded accordingly, or did he intend to shake things up?

People should understand that you can come here to share or express yourself, but any attempt to convince anyone of anything here is pointless, aggravating, and frustrating, although at a minimum and on occasion, entertaining. Be what you be, but take care when trying to convince me!

This post has been edited by Warpaint: 12 August 2011 - 10:36 AM

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#54 User is offline   Thalion 

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Posted 12 August 2011 - 10:34 AM

You keep saying I'm twisting your words, and that you don't care about the title.

Then by all means, please explain this:

View Postreef geek, on 12 August 2011 - 10:53 AM, said:

I just want to prove to people that you can have a playing style that resembles a sniper in the real world, and those doing it should get more respect.


Specifically, the second part. Sure sounds like you're seeking respect on a title.

Onward...

View Postreef geek, on 12 August 2011 - 12:00 PM, said:

You say it takes no skill to be a sniper


Your putting words in my mouth now. I never said that - I simply said paintball snipers don't exist, with the sole exception of if a scenario defines them with certain rules, just like a scenario would define the other scenario-specifics like a "medic" or an "engineer." Just a game mechanic with specific rules. However, that's not the use of the word "sniper" you're going for.

If I had said what you say I do, that would be an acknowledgment of their existence, which I'm arguing against.

Good try though. It sure is easy to beat up an argument when you get to make up what the argument said.


Quote

Make note you keep on saying that I rely on the title for my respect... that makes no sense since i keep on saying I don't care about the title. You guys like to twist words to your advantage without looking at the real meaning.


I direct you to the start of this post. Please read what you said again, and elaborate.

I don't have to twist words, you just bury yourself every time you speak. That's hardly my fault.

Quote

Also, quit demanding my respect if your not willing to respect me and my opinion. There is no reason for you to be hounding on us since we did nothing to you.


I don't recall demanding respect at any time in this conversation. I don't need external affirmation to know who I am. You can be as disrespectful as you want and it won't phase me in the slightest (though the staff may object to it if it gets too far).

You know? You didn't attack me personally, but you did personally attack others whom I happen to agree with on this. I make a case, and the response I get is basically "you're wrong!" in a lot more words and several rounds of contradicting phrases, some of which proved my own premise.

I hardly call responding in a forum I frequent "hounding." "Hounding" would be me going over into your little playland on the offensive. I've never been there, and have no desire to go there.

New direction

View PostThe Stuntman, on 12 August 2011 - 12:06 PM, said:

Quote

Does anyone honestly call people shooting those "machine gunners"? Seriously? I think this is the first time I've heard that term outside of a bunch of renters who are playing their first game.



Special Ops - Heavy Gunner

and while we're at it....
Special Ops - Ambush/Sniper

Carry on... B)


:facepalm:

:laugh:

Ok, so apparently it has come up in marketing hype before. I'll grant that.
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#55 User is offline   Chem Daddy 

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Posted 12 August 2011 - 11:30 AM

LULZ at the sniper debate...
This debate always boils down to semantics. I agree with Tyger that it gets really silly when people start confusing military sniping with paintball. It just can't be done, no matter how much emotion you have invested into the idea.
That said, you can be sneaky in the woods (or even in airball) and help win the game/get eliminations. Does relying purely on ambushing/sneakyness make you a sniper? I guess it depends on how YOU define the word. I define Sniper as an autococker with a pump kit LOL. :P

If you want to to call youself a paintball sniper, that's fine with me, just don't sit in the back of the field hiding in a bush, or brag about rediculous claimes of 400' head shots. Get out there and play, affect the course of the game with your sneakyness and fieldcraft. Just don't get upset when someone points out the fact that you are not a member of SEAL team 6.
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#56 User is offline   ger 

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Posted 12 August 2011 - 11:41 AM

Wow - here's my take if you care...

On topic: That sniper competition is a trip. Makes me chuckle a bit, honestly, but whatev. The marketing & the players who have bought into it have certainly snowballed the sniper debate into something huge, which is perfect for the marketers & those players who want to be a superelitesniper.

As for what this topic has morphed into: Paintballers typically play different roles when in the field - they may label themselves one thing or another (many players change up that role throughout the course of a day - the better ones do at least, imho). Special Ops released the glorified/elevated/sanctified "Positions" as a way for players to identify themselves/others so they could coordinate better in the field... okay maybe they had ulterior motives (to sell markers, vests, patches, etc...). Most quality paintballers have the ability to play all the various positions, even sniper. Yeah they exist, but I guess it depends on your definition.

Saying you are a sniper because you lay-low, wear a ghillie suit, & never spray-n-pray is fine. But, don't say I'm not because I don't always do those things. I think my hangup is when people try to elevate themselves because they are a "sniper/marksmen/shadow/bunny/ninja..." or feel they should be respected because of that. You don't get my respect automatically because you spent 4 weeks assembling a bush to wear around the field, or because you bought an Apex & painted it green, heck you don't get my respect even if you are the greatest player on the field where I see you do wonders & crap cucumbers. The only way you get my respect is if you handle yourself w/ integrity.

This post has been edited by ger: 12 August 2011 - 11:57 AM

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#57 User is offline   The Stuntman 

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Posted 12 August 2011 - 11:46 AM

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I define Sniper as an autococker with a pump kit LOL.



For the Win! :tup:
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#58 User is offline   reef geek 

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Posted 12 August 2011 - 11:57 AM

I'm not saying I need respect specifically, I'm saying you guys need to respect paintball snipers in general. That doesn't mean you have to go praising them, just don't go around saying they don't and can't exist. This whole argument just keep going in circles. I've asked this so many times and still haven't gotten an answer; WHY DO YOU KEEP HATING ON PAINT BALL SNIPERS, WE HAVEN'T DONE ANYTHING TO YOU!!! I'm at a miss how you are getting that I rely on the title sniper for respect; i don't know how many times i have to say it... I'm fighting for the playing style, not the title. Obviously the playing style exist, so many people do it, and so far tat playing style has been known as paintball sniping. If sniper is so offensive to you, please give me a name for that playing style that makes sense and matches. I by no means think I'm a real sniper, or remotely have the skills to be one.
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Posted 12 August 2011 - 11:58 AM

View PostThe Stuntman, on 12 August 2011 - 02:46 PM, said:

Quote

I define Sniper as an autococker with a pump kit LOL.



For the Win!

Pretty much sums up my whole take on the issue. Though I'd clarify it as a Sniper is a modified Sheridan that was easy to tweak and customize, it eventually grew up to be the cocker. Just took some time.

Everytime I see the word Sniper on a thread title I get excited and think its about real WGP Snipers or clones. Then I come in ands am usually very let down. :-( sad panda

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#60 User is offline   Chem Daddy 

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Posted 12 August 2011 - 12:50 PM

I think the idea of paintball sniper gets a bad rep for several reasons. The main one being the people who talk smack at the staging area, but stay in the back during a game and accomplish nothing. I bet we've all seen this, and rubs some people the wrong way in regards to paintball sniping. (I'm not meaning that you do this reef geek, but that's alot of people's perception of it).
I'm skeptical about sniping in paintball because in the fields I've played on (yours may be different) sniping never decisively wins the game. Moving up and flanking do. Stealth has it's place, but in most rec game it's not as usefull as movement. In a scenario game, stealth becomes more useful to a team (General assassination, Intel gathering, and running missions) but this is only effective as part of a team rather than as a lone wolf.

You know, this argument is kinda silly, lets just have fun playing and try to work together on the field...
Back off man! I'm a scientist!
Pumps rock.
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