[Moonstruck]

Greetings, residents and lurkers of the Special Ops Paintball Autococker forum. I'm Moonstruck, a long-time lurker. Registered a few years ago after lurking for a year or two, then fell back into lurking mode after a couple posts.

Anyway, I just got my first 'Cocker ever.

 Moonstruck\'s First Autococker.jpg (17.26K)
Number of downloads: 6

I think she looks lovely. Best thing I've shot, in my opinion. Now, I've done a fair share of research on 'Cockers, but I'm still a bit of a newbie. The guy running the auction I bought it from off Ebay says that he had replaced the pneumatics with STO stuff. It came with a few spare parts and the drop, as well as a no-drop ASA adapter, and the CP .689 barrel.

I paid 127.50 USD including shipping. Was it worth it? Anything else about this that I should know that any of you guys might be able to tell? Other than the STO stuff, I don't know much about it at all. But it's timed and it shoots well, so I am sure as heck not fiddling with it until I understand it further.

[Legato]

Too small of a pic to make out detail. But for a cocker that works and is actually timed right (90+% of sold cockers are sold cause the owner fails to know how to time it, says the gun is broke, when they really just need to learn to open a manual) that is a great price. I see the WGP ergo reg, solid reg, PITA to rebuild, but solid. Drop forwards are so 6 years ago, but if you like it, use it. That is the normal dual hinge trigger on later model cockers. They are ok. You can tweak em a bit to loose some of the extra over travel. I can;t make out the pneumatics here honestly, but if he says they are STO, that is a good thing. Standard Tournament Option...that was considered the high end of WGP cockers back in the day.

I concur with your idea, DO NOT fiddle with it until you understand how it works. 99% of cocker problems are user error. Someone trying to mess with the timing when they know nothing. Their big mistake, messing with all 4 settings at once then wondering why it no longer works. When you time a cocker you can set 4 things: the backblock length off body (set it once and forget it), the cocking rod length (same as before set once and forget it), the cocking lug/sear height (this adjust where in the trigger pull your marker fires), and the 3 way coupler (This adjusts where in the trigger pull you want the marker to recock).

Ideally you would set it so that the marker fires in the first half of the pull, and recocks in the second. If your timing is off it can make things difficult. So only adjust one thing at a time, and see what that does. Then if it no longer works, you just turn that screw back 1/2 turn or whatever you did to make it off in the first place. Peopel screw up when they adjust four things at once then have no idea what is causing the issue. Do it one at a time to avoid this.

If you want to get a shorter pull, throw on a shorter 3 way, like a bomb or something, though i think STO had a fairly short one. Then adjust the sear lug to fire in the first 1/8 of the pull (can be set with marker unaired. Just cock and try to pull trigger and see when it fires, just gotta make sure you leave enough up that it will still reliably cock and not skip over the lug). Now adjust the three way coupler to recock almost right after the marker fires. Now you havea short pull and a long throw after with wasted space. So you'd remove the grips from it, and underneath the sear is a set screw that you can access once the grips are removed. Just raise that sear to lose all that extra over travel that is no longer needed. Now your pull is as short as posible.

You might also want to sweet spot the marker. This will make it the most effecient possible, not the quietest, but most effecient. Turn the IVG in 2-3 turns then lower the regulator til it is off. Now raise it 1/4 turn, fire 3-5 shots and chrono your next shot. Repeat this and Your velocity should keep going up. Once your velocity drops, you just passed your sweet spot, the most effecient seeting. So turn back 1/4 turn and leave it there. Do not adjust the reg again unless you change valves or springs. Just use the IVG to adjust your velocity from now on. IVG is that disk int he back of your lower tube. That is like an RVA in a tippmann. Controls how hard the hammer hits the valve

[Moonstruck]

Thank you very much, Legato. Very, very much. Really clarified a few things for me there, thanks. The sweet spotting was what I was most worried about. I'd read a few articles on it and thought I could maybe take it on, but it definitely helps to have somebody spell it out for me.

Sorry about the picture quality, the camera was acting up so I was forced to snap one with a cell phone. Might take a few more detailed ones later. I am keeping the drop on, by the way. Though I did make it into a drop-backward instead. Puts me just where I want to be in relation to the marker itself.

Though, a few quick questions on cleaning, if you don't mind. Should I just go the 'drop oil into the ASA and dry fire' route for now, or is there a way I can do a deeper cleaning without mucking up the timing or something else? Also, I don't own a valve tool currently. Is it a must-have, or can it wait a bit? Is it really needed at all for a young buck just taking his first steps into the wondrous, tinkering world that is the mysterious inner workings of the Autococker?

This post has been edited by Moonstruck: 11 June 2011 - 12:24 AM

[Legato]

Moonstruck, on 11 June 2011 - 03:21 AM, said:

Thank you very much, Legato. Very, very much. Really clarified a few things for me there, thanks. The sweet spotting was what I was most worried about. I'd read a few articles on it and thought I could maybe take it on, but it definitely helps to have somebody spell it out for me.

Sweet spotting is easy, just takes like 10 min and acouple hundred rounds. Just need you, the marker, ammo and a chrono, oh and a velocity adjusting allen wrench. Can't really mess it up. Just make sure to always fire 3-5 rounds between adjustments before you chrono. This gives the reg time to seat and display the proper output. The first few shots are not at the true regulated pressure, firing them off ensures when you do chrono, you are at the speed it is supposed to be.

If you want to save on ammo, dry fire 3-5 shots, and drop one ball into the breach and fire that, and adjust, dry fire 3-5 shots again, drop one ball in, test and chrono...rather, rinse, repeat until you get the desired result of the velocity finally dropping a bit.

Sorry about the picture quality, the camera was acting up so I was forced to snap one with a cell phone. Might take a few more detailed ones later. I am keeping the drop on, by the way. Though I did make it into a drop-backward instead. Puts me just where I want to be in relation to the marker itself. .

That is fine. Use what works for you. Everyone likes differnt things, that is the beauty in paintball, we can all use what works for us and have fun and be competetive. Rocking a DF hawaiin style is nice. Really changed the balance of the marker. You will probably enjoy it.

Oh and as a quick tip, whatever side you are used to shooting with most, right handed or left handed, move the bolt pin to the other side of the marker, so it is away from your mask. I never got hit with the back block on my cocker or cocking rod, thank you beavertail, best anti cheat device out there....but i often got thwacked with the bolt pin right under the lens, which kind of stuns you for a second. So move it to the other side of the marker and you won't likely get hit by it. Oh things you learn when you get thwacked repeatedly your first few days of play

Though, a few quick questions on cleaning, if you don't mind. Should I just go the 'drop oil into the ASA and dry fire' route for now, or is there a way I can do a deeper cleaning without mucking up the timing or something else? Also, I don't own a valve tool currently. Is it a must-have, or can it wait a bit? Is it really needed at all for a young buck just taking his first steps into the wondrous, tinkering world that is the mysterious inner workings of the Autococker?

Drop some oil in the ASA and dry fire is the easiest. If you want you can remove the reg, drop oil in the vertical ASA, screw the reg on, and dry fire. Some people feel you shouldn't put too much oil thru the reg. This is apersonal thing/preference. do what works for you. I always just drop oil in the asa, fire and go on my way. Make sure to take the barrel off first so you don't get junk in there.

You don't need a valve tool right away until you need to get to your valve. If you blow an oring in there though you would need a tool to get to it. They are cheap and can be had online fairly easily. Don't worry about it to start, if the marker works, you have no need to access your valve.

For basic cleaning, clean the marker with a mix of rubbing alcohol and water, more water then alcohol. THen dry it. Then dry fire the oil thru it to keep it lubed. If you havea delrin bolt, you may want to wipe it down after jsut to be safe. To do any deeper cleaing you must mess with the timing. Like to clean the lower tube, you'd have to remove the bolt, cocking rod and then spin off the back block. Remove your grip frame. THen remove the IVG and spring, then raise the sear/hammer lug so the hammer can slide right out of the body. Now loosen the set screw on the bottom of the body under the grip frame, this holds the valve in place. Then pull out the valve tool, unscrew the jam nut holding the valve in and tilt the marker vertically and they all should slide right out. (jam nut, valve, plunger and spring (in that order).

To put the internals back in, the easiest way is to line up all the valve parts in order on top of the valve tool (jam nut on bottom, followed by valve on top of that, plunger on top of that, and spring on top of that, then just hold the body vertically and slide them up into it. Trying to do it horizontally or on a desk is tough, they can catch on stuff, goiing vertical makes it much easier.

You shouldn't have to touch the pneumatics themselves unless you have a serious leak or are upgrading them. In general with cockers, if it works, don't mes with it or you will create problems. You only need to break ti down fully like once a year to clean it, outside of that, a quick clean on the outside and oil on the inside is fine enough.

[Moonstruck]

Again, thanks a ton, Legato. I'm gonna copy-paste that into a .txt file of mine and refer back to it if I have any trouble. It's nice to have the info I need in one thread as opposed to several old ones scattered all throughout the internet.

I may be heading to the field tomorrow for my first outing with it, if everything falls through. Gonna get it sweetspotted, then I think I'll report back here with my results, good or bad. Shoot, if replies like yours are this helpful, why didn't I cast my lurking cloak aside years ago?

This post has been edited by Moonstruck: 11 June 2011 - 03:24 PM

[Legato]

Have you ever shot a two stage trigger marker before? Forgot to mention that. Cockers have a dual stage trigger. So for every trigger pull YOU MUST pull all the way back, and release all the way before pulling the trigger agian. If you pull half back and let go or pull all the way back, let go and pull again before the trigger returns to a rest position you will "short stroke" the trigger, and cause a misfire and likely a chop.

The first half of the cocker pull fires the marker, the second half recocks it. It sounds like it is hard to fire fast, but after a day off playing you will get it down. Just go slow at first. Many people chop balls the first few days, not used to dual stage triggers and needing to do full pulls and full releases. You will learn fast how to do it right and soon be able to pelt out paint with ease.

[Moonstruck]

Oh yeah, I know about short-stroking and the like. I read a fair deal on 'Cockers before I bought this little baby. Shot about a half-bag of paint in the backyard yesterday, didn't chop a single ball. I really like the trigger pull, honestly. Very solid, with a nice break to it.

I shot off a few rounds on another player's Etek last weekend, and I absolutely loathed the trigger on that thing. Felt kind of... Squishy. That's the only word I can think of to describe it, even if it's not that accurate. Ick, do not want.

I've been wanting to get a Autococker for a while now, I just finally got around to it just now. Was really intrigued by the mechanical aspect to them. Another good chunk of the reason is that I have never handled an electro that I truly liked shooting. Also, I hate batteries. Plus, the mechanical aspect to them. I think that covers it.

[Moonstruck]

Alright. Yesterday was probably one of the most intense days of play I've had so far this year, as well as one of the most fun. All in all, it was a great day.

It took me a bit to find the sweetspot, and I'm still not entirely sure if I've got it exactly, but I'm fairly sure I'm pretty darn close. After that, I had absolutely no problems with it at all, save one embarrassing incident when I forgot I had a on/off ASA. Thing runs like a clock, and kept up with me the entire day.

Overall? I am very glad I bought this thing. Can't wait for the next time I head out to the field so I can do it all over again.