FPO vs BYOP Ever thought about it?
Posted 10 January 2011 - 05:19 PM
Posted 11 January 2011 - 03:40 PM
@Silver - I'm north of Pittsburgh. The drive to Skirmish or EMR for a major event wouldn't be much more than 4 hours(that's why I consider it "relatively" close), plus my folks live in Hershey so my trip to the fields could be even shorter. My "local" field is just across the state line in OH: Battlefront.
You bought the brand, not my allegiance.
Posted 12 January 2011 - 10:23 AM
Posted 12 January 2011 - 10:27 AM
That is kinda my view as well, thank you ger.
I too try not to spend my money at fields that are like that...When I have an option, sadly there is not a paintball field on every corner.
I have noticed a trend of more and more fields raising the price of paint to the levels they where back in the non-water soluble days.
As to why I went on a forum and posted a thread discussing this Monkey...isn't that kinda the point of forums?
I also feel it our responsibility as players to watch out for each other, if I can help one new player become aware of this (or any other issue that is out there) isn't it my duty to do so?
I am a Disposable Hero...I get handed a job, I do the job. Shiny?
Posted 12 January 2011 - 11:08 AM
Posted 12 January 2011 - 03:33 PM
We put our glass to the sky and lift up. And live tonight 'cause you can't take it with ya. So raise a pint for the people that aren't with us. And live tonight 'cause you can't take it with ya...
Austin Michelle Cloyd, Forever in my heart. We love you, Ayesha! Rest in Peace Tyler Hackett
Rest in Peace, Dave Brockie! Cam Cam #83
Posted 12 January 2011 - 03:41 PM
However, if using your own gear, entry is $10, all day. Paint is something like $70 a case, or $18 per bag. If you're renting, then you are paying $25 to play all day, with mask, gun, gas, and 100 balls.
There is a pretty good discount for having a large group (20 or more).
And, the last Sunday of every month is BYOP. The BYOP allows anything that is .68, except Monsterballs. They also run 4 small scenarios a year with something between 300-400 people, maybe slightly more. They have incredible fields, and a phenominal reffing staff.
Maybe some fields are a little rediculous, I don't know. I certainly have no complaints about the field I go to though.
I will say that I almost never go on a FPO day, mostly because I'm not exactly rich. Exceptions are the scenarios, which are worth every penny.
Posted 12 January 2011 - 08:31 PM
If you are a Christian paintballer add this to your signature
My feedback: http://forum.special...howtopic=184491
Posted 17 January 2011 - 07:47 PM
No...retail is a mark up of between 10%-20% normally. 30% is considered high margin.
Most of the time a mark-up past 20% requires some special circumstances such as a monopoly or 'company store' scenario, both of which are currently illegal by and large.
Thank you Standard Oil.
from someone who has worked retail for 4 years
Hockey markups range from 30% - 40%
gloves sit in the 30-35%
range aboot 40 ish
Shoes sit around 60 - 80% markup
Nike shox's average about 150% mark-up ( just saying)
Most clothing sits around 70 - 100% mark-up
the 2007 UA snow jacket ( the REALLY nice one, yea that was nearly 300% mark-up)
now with those percents you might be thinking: Your store must be doing well. people come in, you charge them insane mark-up prices. sometimes between twice to three times as much. lots of margin.
Our store is litrially *This* close to being closed down for not breaking even.
(and we have some of the lowest prices in whitby. Hell we even once had a sale on under Armour. THATS CRAZY. UA never goes on sale. only clearance after 4 years.)
And I actually shudder to think what it feels like for someone to run a paintball field, something that people will just stop going to if money gets tight.
nobody wants to pay high prices, but in all honesty, you want lower prices to pay for paint and entry?
Go talk to the goverment, the insurance groups, the Federal bank. because THEY are the ones making the cash. not us.
This post has been edited by Eskimo: 17 January 2011 - 07:51 PM
Posted 24 January 2011 - 07:23 PM
That gives them maybe 4-8 days where they earn 60-70% of their cash flow for the month to be able to maintain their business. And unlike many other businesses, paintball is a fringe activity for most where they maybe play for stags, birthdays and the like so the client volume can also be very hit and miss. I would expect that the mark-up on the material would be significantly higher than the 10-30%.
When I used to work in retail, I had the pleasure of pricing items for purchase and, as others have already mentioned, the mark-up on clothing is really high. The worst mark-up I personally saw were socks that were brought in for the monthly sale day; Approximate cost $0.05, suggested retail $1.50. That's 30 times or 3000%.
There are many factors that go into the pricing of services at the paintball field:
1. Staffing (10 employees x $15/h x 8 hours x 15days/month) = $18,000/month
2. Rent - warehouse space is fairly cheap as far as rental space goes however $5.00/sq.ft/yrx30,000 sq.ft x 1yr/12 months = $12,500/month. Outdoor must be cheaper but then they have more development costs if they build structures, etc.
Assuming that 1 player spends $100 for paint and field, the field has to have 305 people per month to cover the cost staffing and rent (assuming my rental cost is reasonable, although I'll bet it is low) which should be two of the larger expenses. This still has not covered off field maintenance, capital replacement (rental equipment) utilities, insurance, owners pay + profits, advertising and other sundry costs that are required to maintain the business.
As one other poster commented, if the cost of paint seems excessive, learn to play with limited ammo some of the time (single shot or short burst) so you can run on full auto occasionally.
This post has been edited by Crossbones: 07 February 2011 - 04:41 PM
Posted 22 April 2011 - 03:34 PM
I played at a field in Michigan, they went to FPO soon after I started playing there. It was mostly for insurance reasons, but also for the added profit. I hated it at first, but it wasn't so bad after awhile. The reason it wasn't so bad, is they kept things reasonable. They had a good field and good refs...not much as far as facilities. But they kept the field fee to $20 and the paint to $60 and gave free air/CO2 all day. I would take every opportunity to play outback when I could, but I didn't mind playing at that field for those prices when an outback game wasn't possible.
Since I've moved to Illinois, I've found the fields to vary considerable as far as prices.
There's one nearby that isn't much of a field and they charge $10 + $60/case FPO.
Another field, in Indiana, charges $10 + $70/case FPO...haven't played there yet, but looks like a very nice field.
Then there are fields closer to Chicago, some look very nice, others average...and they are charging anywhere from $75-$90/case FPO.
Then there's a few others around the area that are BYOP with $25-$30 entry fees. These fields also sell paint, but because they are in competition with paint sellers, their paint is reasonably priced at $39-$69 depending on the grade you want.
In real numbers, it looks like this;
Option 1, BYOP
Spend $40 on paint, $30 on an entry fee....it's $70 for a day. If I choose to buy another case, which I usually do either because I run out or just to support the field...that's another $45. So $115 for a day of paintball with the field getting $75.
Option 2, FPO (reasonable)
Spend $15 on entry, $60 on a case...it's a $75 day. If I run out of paint early, it might become a $135 day, but if I run out late, I'll just head out...no sense in buying a case since they already got their money. So, it's a $135 day, with all of it going to the field.
Option 3, FPO (unreasonable)
Spend $10 on entry, $80 on a case. That's a $90 day. I probably won't buy another case, even if I run out, just too pricey. So it ends up being a $90 day, with $90 going to the field. However, I'll never choose this option because I don't believe in paying more than $70 a case for paint, no exceptions.
Last weekend I went to Fox, had paint left over from one of their events I went to previously...it cost me $30 + gas. I was going to buy a case on the way out, but the game went right up to the end and I didn't have time. But, while Fox didn't make much money off me that day, they will make money off me again because I WILL be back.
And I like BYOP just because I like to try different kinds of paint. I've tried and reviewed numerous different brands and I like having that option. I also don't like high FPO prices because I don't like getting in a firefight behind a bunker and thinking to myself, "Uh oh, I'd normally make a run and bunker that guy, but I'm runnin low on paint so I'll just sit here and do nothing. If you're gonna play...PLAY...don't spend your time looking for balls that aren't dirty so you can put them in your hopper and use them.
Posted 22 April 2011 - 05:48 PM
these fields will blow your mind.. and the price for the paint will be worth it.
i do however suggest a pump or pistol thou so you can keep coming back every weekend
Posted 22 April 2011 - 06:35 PM
As far as FPO vs. BYOP, I prefer FPO. I've seen red-filled paint that stained everything it touched (including plastic!) and unbreakable Monsterballs. I'd rather not ever see either brand of paint again.
All things considered, paintball is a very inexpensive sport for me assuming I don't spend too much on unnecessary gear. The average cost of a day's play runs around $20.00-$25.00 plus gas money for walk on play. It's closer to $75.00 for a day of scenario since I'm generally paying for a two day event and playing just one day.
This post has been edited by Woodbender: 22 April 2011 - 06:44 PM
Posted 22 April 2011 - 10:07 PM
It's paintball. Pay for what you want. I have heard no golfer complain about paying higher prices at a higher end golf course.
It is the same thing for us. If I go to a higher end park, CPX in my area, I expect to pay a higher fee for the day. It makes no difference how I pay my money. If I buy a bunch of paint at Wally-world, and then go to a lower rent park, I still pay nearly as much.
Yes we are held to a brand or two of paint at an FPO field. This could be a pro/con depending on the paint that the firld has chosen. I would love to use First Strike rounds but I make the choice to go to fields where they aren't allowed. That is the thing to remember. If I chose to go to Park X, my gear must fit that park.
Either way our chosen hobby is expensive just like any other hobby. Vetching about where the money goes is really insignifigant. Enjoy the time spent with your GF/Wife. I personally would spend the extra money to go to a well groomed and safe environment if my wife would even think of coming with me to play.
Golf doesn't have to be expensive. Neither does paintball.
I play outlaw nearly exclusively. The reason is simply that I can't afford to play at the commercial fields. Right about now I'd kill for a cheap field. Gimme some woods and people to play against. All the other crap is just unnecessary. (I know, that's just me.) But because of the cost, I can't play. In fact, even the outlaw field I've been playing at is no longer available because the owner revoked permission to play there. Result? I haven't played in a year and a half.
I'm not offering solutions here, I know. I guess I'm just complaining. But if an outlaw game can cost me $20 for all day....
Oh well. Guess I'll go wipe the dust off my markers. (Sigh)
Grammar Police Co-Commander Badge #1 IKE & Ike '09 STUDMUFFIN Debater of the 1st Order of Ashrak ASH123
"Overkill is underrated." -Col. John "Hannibal" Smith
... another Staff granted wish.
Posted 22 April 2011 - 11:55 PM
There's no FPO field you can play at for $25. Even if you get a $10 entry and 500 rounds, that's $20 MINIMUM. Now, if you can play 8 games and only use 500 rounds...more power to ya. But that's roughly 30% of a hopper per game. I usually use up that much at the chrono station.
The best bang for your buck is a BYOP field. It's more expensive than outback, but you're guaranteed to get players to actually show up. I've been to more than my fair share of outback games where it was just me and 1-2 other players sitting around and nobody else ever showed up. Not to mention, I use exclusively HPA, and I have gas hog markers, so it's a real pain to play at a field that doesn't have HPA fills available. The other great thing about BYOP fields is, they charge a reasonable rate for paint. So if you run out, or just don't feel like using the cheap stuff you get at Walmart...you can buy reasonably good paint for a decent price right there at the field.
I'm not opposed to playing at FPO fields, it's just gonna take more for those fields to get my return business. In Michigan, the field was reasonable and good and it made sense. CPX looks like a great field, absolutely, and Living Legends is a great event...for sure. But I have to draw the line somewhere and for me it's $70/case. I really won't pay more than that, no matter how cool the field looks or how many bathrooms they have. I agree with the original poster that CPX should charge $50/case for paint, and if their field is soooooo good, charge $60 to play there.