[Cobrakai]

I My friend says this is an "oxymoron." I told him he was an idiot, what do you guys think? Also, I heard some military squads were eliminating the sniper position entirely and replacing it with a DMR class. This class would use rifles such as the M14, SR-25, etc.

[Down Range Pain]

urban areas is the best place for a sniper

urban sniper = short to medium range sniper rifle work
designated marksman = medium to long range assalt rifle work

sounds pretty redundent to me

[kaosukoden]

either way it takes a well trained marksman.... You could call it the "bob" position for all I care, if you're there to make medium to long range skilled shots...

[slinkyaroo]

Stalingrad. That's where it was perfected and a proven strategy.

[RowanPaintball]

Dont worry, the military isnt giving up any snipers. They dont assign snipers to every squade, when a regular unit is fortunate to have its own designated snipers they are typicaly asigned to a platoon or larger type group. What they are doing is adding designated marksmen who are better equipped and trained for more precise shooting at medium ranges. That way they can afford to place them in most of the infantry squades incresing the individual squads capabilities in the urban enviornment. The designated marksmen does not set-up a hide, or vantage point, they move with and work with the squade, just like they would as a regular soldier in that squade, what they do bring to the table is a more precise shot placement capability.

[I.K.E.]

So if they exist in real combat, do they exist in paintball?

I mean...Are there fields with extensive urban environments?

This post has been edited by I.K.E.: 30 December 2010 - 08:39 AM

[Cobrakai]

Down Range Pain, on 30 December 2010 - 05:12 AM, said:

urban areas is the best place for a sniper

urban sniper = short to medium range sniper rifle work
designated marksman = medium to long range assalt rifle work

sounds pretty redundent to me

Well urban snipers wouldn't be limited to medium range, there are sniper rifles that can shoot up to 2+ miles. Who's to say these can't be used to drop targets at long ranges in urban areas?

RowanPaintball, on 30 December 2010 - 09:12 AM, said:

Dont worry, the military isnt giving up any snipers. They dont assign snipers to every squade, when a regular unit is fortunate to have its own designated snipers they are typicaly asigned to a platoon or larger type group. What they are doing is adding designated marksmen who are better equipped and trained for more precise shooting at medium ranges. That way they can afford to place them in most of the infantry squades incresing the individual squads capabilities in the urban enviornment. The designated marksmen does not set-up a hide, or vantage point, they move with and work with the squade, just like they would as a regular soldier in that squade, what they do bring to the table is a more precise shot placement capability.

Well that's much smarter, considering that's something infantry squads are lacking.

[Warpaint]

Cobrakai, on 30 December 2010 - 01:25 AM, said:

I My friend says this is an "oxymoron." I told him he was an idiot, what do you guys think? Also, I heard some military squads were eliminating the sniper position entirely and replacing it with a DMR class. This class would use rifles such as the M14, SR-25, etc.

Depends on your friends understanding of urban and sniper. I would guess his issue is with sniper. Lots of misconceptions with regards to snipers, number one being that sniping is only done at long distances...distance is an element of stealth, or of avoiding detection and/or direct combat. Sniping is a form of guerrilla warfare. Have your friend read up on that, then he might change his mind on sniping.

LE prefers to call their snipers Sharpshooters or Marksmen, because sniper has developed certain negative connotations. Designated marksmen in the military serve a different function than field snipers, and mostly in urban environments.

[Cobrakai]

Warpaint, on 31 December 2010 - 12:05 AM, said:

Cobrakai, on 30 December 2010 - 01:25 AM, said:

I My friend says this is an "oxymoron." I told him he was an idiot, what do you guys think? Also, I heard some military squads were eliminating the sniper position entirely and replacing it with a DMR class. This class would use rifles such as the M14, SR-25, etc.

Depends on your friends understanding of urban and sniper. I would guess his issue is with sniper. Lots of misconceptions with regards to snipers, number one being that sniping is only done at long distances...distance is an element of stealth, or of avoiding detection and/or direct combat. Sniping is a form of guerrilla warfare. Have your friend read up on that, then he might change his mind on sniping.

LE prefers to call their snipers Sharpshooters or Marksmen, because sniper has developed certain negative connotations. Designated marksmen in the military serve a different function than field snipers, and mostly in urban environments.

Good points, however, it definitely depends on who you talk to about the conception of a "Sniper." If you were to talk to a 13 year old halo junkie he would love the term "Sniper", while a Vietnam war vet may not.

[GUNFU]

Mostly todays snipers are stuck in the urban environments. But they are trained to adapt. Its an ideal location because you are not really in the elements compared to some snipers in the bush. They have an advantage also that they don't need to have a ghillie suit and hide in the shadowy corners of buildings and usually have good vantage points. But that also means that enemy snipers are also looking for them in those exact spots.

Of my experience allot of urban snipers prefer .50 cal rifles because they can shoot through walls and disable vehicles usually carrying IEDs. But also very very effective against enemy personnel. Instances of enemies being cut in half at over 1.5 miles have been recorded in urban environments.

But the sniper term has been warped by todays media like halo. I had a kid, at one of the fields I play, get a T9.1 like mine with all the bells and whistle and was mad that he couldn't "snipe" anybody like in halo. Most of the time he was running and gunning go figure. It takes allot of patience and practice. When I was stationed in WA I used to play with a retired Army sniper and always hatted playing against him because he would pull out his ghillie and make us look like fools. I would end up shooting bushes just because.

But if you ever look at a true sniper it's usually him and a spotter behind enemy lines picking off certain targets and then retreating. Really no glory but they serve as a scalpel and as a demoralizer against enemy troops. Trust me seeing a bad guy cut in half will scare the crap out of you even if you're on the good guy side.

This post has been edited by GUNFU: 06 January 2011 - 12:50 AM

[Cobrakai]

GUNFU, on 06 January 2011 - 02:49 AM, said:

Mostly todays snipers are stuck in the urban environments. But they are trained to adapt. Its an ideal location because you are not really in the elements compared to some snipers in the bush. They have an advantage also that they don't need to have a ghillie suit and hide in the shadowy corners of buildings and usually have good vantage points. But that also means that enemy snipers are also looking for them in those exact spots.

Of my experience allot of urban snipers prefer .50 cal rifles because they can shoot through walls and disable vehicles usually carrying IEDs. But also very very effective against enemy personnel. Instances of enemies being cut in half at over 1.5 miles have been recorded in urban environments.

But the sniper term has been warped by todays media like halo. I had a kid, at one of the fields I play, get a T9.1 like mine with all the bells and whistle and was mad that he couldn't "snipe" anybody like in halo. Most of the time he was running and gunning go figure. It takes allot of patience and practice. When I was stationed in WA I used to play with a retired Army sniper and always hatted playing against him because he would pull out his ghillie and make us look like fools. I would end up shooting bushes just because.

But if you ever look at a true sniper it's usually him and a spotter behind enemy lines picking off certain targets and then retreating. Really no glory but they serve as a scalpel and as a demoralizer against enemy troops. Trust me seeing a bad guy cut in half will scare the crap out of you even if you're on the good guy side.

Haha Like OMGawd No scope dewd!

[GUNFU]

Lol exactly my point!

[Shipwreck!]

A sniper is a sniper, it doesn't matter where he's sniping.

[edtoro]

I think I can contribute something to this subject and maybe shed some light.

What the Army refers to as the DMR(Actually an acronym for Designated Marksman Rifle, but will be used as designated Marksman in the thread) is a hybrid of the marksman sniper and the regular rifleman. In the game Americas Army 3 (developed in close cooperation with the U.S. Army) the Sniper Role Has been phazed out completely from the previous installment on Americans Army 2. This move was mostly done because Snipers operate under specific conditions (pre-deployed fire stations, extreme-long range positions, specific equipment, etc.). Some people actually think that snipers, as portrayed in games like Call of Duty 4- Black Ops, are the actual way some snipers deploy. That is not, and has never been the case. Weapons like the M-24, M-82, M-107, Intervention, Mosin-Nagant M28, Dragunov SVD, WA-2000, just to name a few, are weapons designed specifically for, and should never be used in conditions outside of a mid-long range engagement. Engaging a target in close proximity with a sniper rifle is not only risky, but also less efficient. That is why all the real war stories that are about SF Snipers that deployed with .50 caliber rifles on battlefields usually include WATER TOWERS, 5+ STORY ROOFS, and 1 MILE AWAY FROM OP-ZONE. There is no such thing as a Sniper with a .50 cal sniping ultra-nationalists 10 meters away.

The Squad Designated Marksman, however, will bridge the gap. In general Urban Environments, deep inside cities, where the only vantage point on an op zone is on a 4 story parking complex about 50 meters from the operational zone, there is no room for a sniper. If he were deployed, his position would be compromised in a matter of minutes (exactlly what happens with Insurgent snipers, now that I think about it). The DMR will be the first "sniper" capable of efficiently engaging targets at 5+ meters out from his position, he will also be capable of engaging targets that other riflemen could otherwise not effectively engage. All this is accomplished thanks to teh DMR's equipment. AA3 as a game, deploys DMR's with a longer barreled variant of the M16 with a special 4x scope made by Acog (not the same one used on M4A1's by SOCOM). What we basically have with this gun is a light version of a proven assault rifle with a longer range, slightly more powerful, and much more accurate, with little to no cost on weight or maneuverability. It's also more convenient, since it runs the same ammo as other assault rifles and is easily repairable. I have heard of DMR's deploying with the Mk. 12 SPR and Mk. 14 EBR considering its the same concept though I have no evidence that would suggest it.

Hope the post shed some light.

This post has been edited by edtoro: 11 January 2011 - 08:28 PM

[jiu-jitsu fighter]

In regards to paintball and an urban type enviroment. It really depends on the layout of the field and how you consider a sniper paintball role. In fact it is easier in an urban enviroment due to the buildings providing concealment.

For instance the local field has 2 two story buildings. Alot of times you will hear a shot and see someones head and hear a little kid go sniper. There is one building where I go when I want to try to play the sniper position where I can see all the way to the back of the field, big open middle section. There are a couple of blind spots, but I have a trick I will get into later for that.

The building I hide in has stairs to lead up to the second story. Under those stairs is some extra netting laying on the floor. That spot faces the front entry way. Off the break I hit that building from the side. Wait to see if the front or back is getting hit the hardest and make my way in. I hit the corner closest to the stairs where I easy back and get under the net. I position it on top of my head to where it doesnt block my mask and wrap it around part of my gun to provide some type of camoflague. The last time I played I shot the last 5 people to win the game. Only thing they knew was I was in that building.

I got stuck playing against a friend of mine who knew that spot. So I shot a couple of guys exited out the back then positioned myself in the woods behind the back door to the building. about 2 mins later as my patience was wearing thin my friend eased around the building made his way towards the back door. As he entered I snuck in behind him, barreled tagged him. He yelled out and I know his teammates heard him so i eased out setup another spot in another building. Shot 2 guys made my way out then got shot in the back as I went past a building without checking the inside.

I think it is easier than actually sniping in the woods. Unless, you have a big area to move around in.