[lonewolf1000]

I may be new to posting on this forum but not new to reading it. I am in no way a noob at paintball or spec ops paintball.

We all know of the flood of new ideas for Spe-Ops based positions. A few are good, most aren't. I have an idea that may end this. It's simple really. Base position off a gearkit, Variance accepted of course. Then we have subdivisions of jobs that are best for the specific gearkit. Example

Dagger
Gearkit: Light, manuverable. Objective of gearkit: be fast.
Jobs: Flank, Run point, make flag runs, medic(scenario), engineer(scenario).
All of the jobs for dagger need to be light and manuverable, because thay have to be able to get around the field, But no position is restrited to a single job at a time. Also there can be variances in jobs, a dagger is not always restricted to to dagger jobs, he can always do something like what a sabre would do.

In the end it comes down to one thing, go out, play, be yourself. The positions are to make things easier, but they are not the iron fist that you must obey at all times in paintball.

Debate my idea(of course), and express your opinions, but not violently. Constructive criticism only.

This post has been edited by lonewolf1000: 27 November 2010 - 02:55 PM

[redthirst]

I see that this hasn't gotten a whole ton of support, but honestly I like this idea. I can't speak for anyone else, but I can tell you what I'd suggest when people ask my opinion on what they should get.

Normally, people have a pretty good idea of what they want or can do. I've never met a 350+lbs guy that thought he'd be best suited as a dagger or an ADHD kid who thought he could be an ambush sniper (for more than a couple of games, at least). Most people (excluding little kids with delusions of grandeur) have a pretty good idea of what play style they'd be best suited for right off the bat. With that in mind, here's what I normally suggest:

Dagger: lightest gun/tank/hopper combo you're comfortable with. Depending on how long you expect to be in the game, take little to no extra paint (if playing as a walk-on, hopper ball is fine, if in a scenario, 200-300 extra rounds is plenty), I'd suggest a small pod pack instead of a vest. A light, breathable mask that won't fog up due to heavy breathing. Light shoes with good traction and ankle support (I'd suggest cleats). You'll be doing significantly more running than gunning.

Sabre: lightest gun/tank/hopper combo you're comfortable with that can put out significant firepower (I'd suggest pretty much any tournament style electro). Take a few extra rounds (100-200 as a walk-on, 300-500 in a scenario), and I'd still suggest a pod pack, though a small vest would also be fine. I'd still suggest a very breathable mask since you will be doing a fair amount of moving. A good pair of hiking boots, lightness is important, but less so than traction or ankle support. You'll be doing about the same amount of running as gunning.

Broadsword: an efficient gun with significant firepower (I'd suggest a Viking or Ego), large capacity hopper (pinokio w/ nose), and large HPA tank. Take plenty of extra ammo, and, since maneuverability is secondary, I'd suggest a vest to hold extra gear, though, a back man pod pack would be sufficient. Any mask that can be worn for long periods of time under normal breathing and normal play conditions without fogging is fine. Heavy boots with maximum traction and support. You'll be doing much more gunning than running.

Those are the only play styles I'd suggest to people just starting or interested in playing on small fields and/or as a walk-on. Everything after this I'd only suggest to experienced paintballers interested in scenario play or, at least, very large fields with many experienced players. Anyone who brings their Double Trouble to a kid's birthday party or regularly takes it to the local field to play against walk-ons with rentals is an A-hole.

Hammer: a double trouble with very high capacity cyclone feed/electro hopper, very large tank, and underbored non-ported barrels with loudeners or Apex (for intimidation ). Take as much paint as you and your vest can hold then feel free to strap more to your arms and legs. Take a mask that protects your face. Anti-fogging and breathability are important, but you're going to be the #1 target for the opposition (and, let's be honest, whith that much firepower, you don't need to be able to see much more than the general direction of the enemy anyway ) so you're gonna want something that can take plenty of hits without exposing your face. Heavy boots with maximum traction and support. You will be gunning exclusively. If you feel any situation might warrant running, feel free to substitute and equal or greater amount of gunning.

Sniper: something that shoots FS, no hopper, small tank/12 grams, overbored and heavily ported barrel, a sight that you're effective and comfortable with. You want your equipment to be as light as or lighter than a Dagger's (that means no heavy "sniper" bolt-ons that don't really do anything). Take the least amount of air and ammo you think you can without running out... you want to be very light. You'll want to be stealthy. Maybe not full ghillie suit stealth, but at least drab clothing and no clanking 12 grams stealth. Cleats and a light, breathable mask. A radio to communicate info back to your team leader. Your emphasis will be on gunning over running, but you'll be doing relatively little of either.

Scout: something light and quiet. If you have to shoot something, you don't want the world to hear. Same equipment I'd suggest to a Dagger + a radio. Lots of sneaking and little-to-no gunning.

Squad DM: something that shoots FS and a sight that you're effective with. Anything else is complete personal preference. Your only job is to accurately shoot anything that your team leader tells you to.

Lance: a LAW. Everything else is personal preference. If you really want to get your team some recognition, do what 13th Legion did: find a girl with a nice shape and bad attitude, sprinkle in some piercings and tats, and give that bitch the biggest rocket launcher on the market.

This post has been edited by redthirst: 02 February 2011 - 11:05 AM

[Pirate]

I see we're starting to agree on this. Also, I didn't realize bitch was out of the swear filter. Nice.

The positions used to be defined by a specific marker (Of course, because Spec Ops was trying to sell their gear). Except for the Hammer, and maybe the Sniper (First Strike markers), the gun doesn't really matter. But that's what lead rise to all the "I'm an X, but I use Y gear. WHAT I IS???" threads that lead to a lot of people saying "You're a paintball player." (By the way, I went back and looked at some of the posts, I didn't realize how bad it had gotten since I stopped posting there).

I definitely think that unless Moati is going to start putting out hard parts for Markers, the positions need a revamp. And even if he does, still give them a revamp, but say "Like this marker here, that we sell."

[redthirst]

The emphasis on position specific guns did always bother me. Like I described in my post, I do believe some guns are better suited for specific postitions/playstyles (as an example, a spoolie is smaller and quieter than a poppit, but much less efficient so is a better choice IMO for positions that value a smaller and/or quieter gun over an efficient one), but I draw the line at taking a low end marker, bolting a bunch of crap onto it, and telling people that it is the gun for a certain scenario position so you can charge double what it's worth.

And yes, being able to type bitch freely is fantastic.

[Eagle Eye]

Really, aside from special scenarios i've never really seen people adhere to "positions." Obviously exceptions like Snipers (ghillie) and Anti-Tank (rocket launcher) who have special equipment, and to an extent the Commander (cause someone has to be in charge, lol). Of course at some events you have Spies, Medics, ect, but we keep with the SO positions. Dagger/Sabre/Broadsword have all melded together with the proliferation of electronic markers. When your "dagger" puts down just as much paint as your "broadsword" where do we mark the difference? Flanking? Cover fire? Do we even need to mark the difference anymore? Just call it "team member" or "infantry" or since they are all named after some kind of blade, "Blade?" Doesn't matter to me, just food for thought

[redthirst]

Eagle Eye, on 07 April 2011 - 01:48 AM, said:

Really, aside from special scenarios i've never really seen people adhere to "positions." Obviously exceptions like Snipers (ghillie) and Anti-Tank (rocket launcher) who have special equipment, and to an extent the Commander (cause someone has to be in charge, lol). Of course at some events you have Spies, Medics, ect, but we keep with the SO positions. Dagger/Sabre/Broadsword have all melded together with the proliferation of electronic markers. When your "dagger" puts down just as much paint as your "broadsword" where do we mark the difference? Flanking? Cover fire? Do we even need to mark the difference anymore? Just call it "team member" or "infantry" or since they are all named after some kind of blade, "Blade?" Doesn't matter to me, just food for thought

It's not the gun that makes the position, though. IMO, an Ego is going to be a good choice no matter what basic position (Dagger, Sabber, or Broadsword), but some people and equipment are better suited for certain play styles and positions.

Example:
You've got two guys, one looks very fit and fast with running cleats and no paint or equipment besides what's on his gun and his mask... the other has the exact same gun but is a really big guy (maybe muscular, maybe not), he's wearing heavy combat boots and has a case of paint strapped to him. I can't speak for anyone else, but if I had to choose for one of them to flank or bunker opponents and the other to cover him, that would be a no brainer for me.

I don't see why if I say "That's Tom, he likes to hang out in the back, call out enemy positions, and use suppressive fire to keep their heads down for us... he's really trigger happy, that's why he carries all that paint." everyone's cool with that, but if I condense that into "That's Tom, he's our Broadsword." everyone gives me a condescending attitude about how there's no such thing as positions.

[Eagle Eye]

redthirst, on 07 April 2011 - 07:02 AM, said:

It's not the gun that makes the position, though. IMO, an Ego is going to be a good choice no matter what basic position (Dagger, Sabber, or Broadsword), but some people and equipment are better suited for certain play styles and positions.

Example:
You've got two guys, one looks very fit and fast with running cleats and no paint or equipment besides what's on his gun and his mask... the other has the exact same gun but is a really big guy (maybe muscular, maybe not), he's wearing heavy combat boots and has a case of paint strapped to him. I can't speak for anyone else, but if I had to choose for one of them to flank or bunker opponents and the other to cover him, that would be a no brainer for me.

I don't see why if I say "That's Tom, he likes to hang out in the back, call out enemy positions, and use suppressive fire to keep their heads down for us... he's really trigger happy, that's why he carries all that paint." everyone's cool with that, but if I condense that into "That's Tom, he's our Broadsword." everyone gives me a condescending attitude about how there's no such thing as positions.

...well put, i stand corrected. that being said, i feel most people think that by assigning the position/title it assigns players into a rigid type structure that hinders an individual player who may otherwise play outside his given "role" if not given any kind of position/title. I understand your viewpoint though, and there is nothing that says a Broadsword can't swing a flank if given the opportunity

[redthirst]

Absolutely. We're people, not ants, so while I like specialization to a point, I also expect a certain degree of flexability in any (but maybe the most specialized) position.

I consider myself a Dagger. My equipment is about as minimalistic as I can make it, I use very little paint in an average day, and I count on speed, cover, and good fire angles to make the majority of my eliminations. That being said, if someone needs cover fire I will, without hesitation, unload on a bunker. I have one preferred way that I like to play that I practice most and am best at, but there are other ways that I can play if the situation warrants it... and I'd expect the same adaptability from anyone I played with.

IMO, a team of specialist who can each do 1 thing great and everything else okay will outplay a team where everybody can do everything pretty good... it's kind of like spec forces (highly specialized individuals) vs regular infantry (jacks of all trades with a few specialized elements).

This post has been edited by redthirst: 11 April 2011 - 06:36 AM