ghostinthewood, on 17 November 2010 - 11:40 AM, said:
-I want to build an AR, because it will be cheaper
-I havn't done this before and I am not a gun smith
-Primary purpose is training
-Secondary is home defense
..... If anyone who knows much about tactical shooting wants to throw in some drill ideas that be greatly appreciated.
-I want to shoot out to 400yrds, because if I could get on as a sniper, that'd be great. However, I think 400yrds is a good distance to practice at without sacrificing much else from the gun.
-I want to do the basic stuff like, shooting at various distances from various stances.
-I'm going to be shooting in different awkward positions and using barriers
So, as far as the gun itself goes...in semiparticular order..
-Adjustable/collapsible/CAR stock since Robin is going to shoot it too
-Shortest barrel I can get without sacrificing that 400yrds capability. 16in?
-Red dot, because I hate AR sights
-Extra mags, idk about 20vs30rd but I do think I want magpul
-Sling, 3 point, nothing fancy
-Foregrip, doesnt have to be anything fancy
-Simple scope, anything that will let me hit human sized targets easily. It could be fixed but I was thinking a 4x32 or 3-9x32. Once again, doesnt have to be anything fancy. If it had mildots that'd be great since I'm familiar with them but I'm not super worried.
Sooooooooo super tl;dr, I want to build an all-purpose AR for cheap. Halp. =]
Cool. I was looking into the whole SWAT thing myself, before I ran afoul of some health issues. Long story...
As PW stated- good luck with the cheap part- if you want a quality
AR, you're going to have to come to terms with the fact that you will be spending some serious cash, both for the rifle and the optic(s).
Btw, what is your budget limit
As far as training/drills and such- if you can, get yourself to a good, serious class. Since it sounds like you're going to be mostly on your own, I highly suggest the Magpul Dynamics: Art of the Tactical Carbine 1&2 DVD series. Excellent material, modern, fast paced, and actually fun to watch too. Not exactly geared toward sniping, but still extremely usefull on the skill set and defensive aspect of things. And as a wise man once said- a rifle should be considered a fighting/defensive weapon first.
As far as the list you got up there:
I'm no expert, but a 16" barrel should be just fine out to that far, especially with the proper ammo.
I highly agree with the flattop- with todays optic-heavy trends, it's a must have.
Magazines/stock/foregrip- MAGPUL!!! lol
Right now, imo and from what I've seen, magpul accessories are hands down the best bang for your buck. Pmags are pretty much the best AR mags our there right now, they have a wide selection of quality stocks, and they're even in the foregrip market now. As far as mag sizes go- I'm biased towards the 30 rounders. However, that's going to depend on your local laws; plus, a lot of folks especially like to use the 20 rd. mags in SPR mode. Something you're going to have to sort out- but Pmags are pretty cheap.
Ditch the 3-point sling for a 2-pointer (ie. Blue Force Gears' VCAS, or such). That 3 pointer is overkill, and it will very likely interfere with operating your rifle.
Red dot and scope- Can't give much opinion on the scope, as other than an ACOG I haven't looked into them yet. As far as red dots- most folks consider Aimpoint to be the best out there right now- and for good reason, given their insane battery life (you can literally leave it on for years), and extreme durability. Not cheap though. Currently I'm personally running an Eotech. Some folks don't like these as much due to previous issues (although they seem to have remedied them), but I really do. I like the open box-window, and the style of the reticle. Plus, you can find the basic models for $1-200 less than the Aimpoints.
If I was going for a scope, I think I would want an adjustable zoom...
PistolWhipped, on 17 November 2010 - 03:06 PM, said:
ghostinthewood, on 17 November 2010 - 01:40 PM, said:
-I havn't done this before and I am not a gun smith
Neither are most peeps who build them. They are kinda plug and play pieces. Plug in the parts and go. If you decide not to build the entire upper, you can get by with just some basic punches. You'll need an action block to get the barrel on if you do build the upper though.
Buy an assembled upper. Buy an assembled lower. Stick 'em together. Attach optic and accessories. Done.
It's like barbie for men.
Of course you can get more detailed if you want, but you know what I mean.
ghostinthewood, on 17 November 2010 - 03:33 PM, said:
.....Would 18in be too big for home defense?
I should've elaborated some more on Robin as well. I wanted the CAR style (or any adjustable style) stock for her and the smaller barrel too. I have a 26in 870 that is almost too big for her. IDK how that translates to ARs though...
I should say also that I have a friend that is a gunsmith so I *could* do some things that would require tools, although I thought everyone had a punch set =p.
If I seem to be difficult I'm just trying to let you know my train of thought. Just fyi
Edit* Are there any good flip up sights that aren't so debilitating? As I mentioned, i hate the front sight/carry handle combo. It seems really narrow. Thats why I mentioned the red dot, I can shoot those with both eyes open. I'm very open to suggestions there too, although it seems that most iron sights are just as expensive..
Well, in my limited non-expert opinion- yes, and yes.
The extra 2 inches on the front of the rifle is going to make an already difficult job of maneuvering the rifle around tight house spaces even more difficult. Plus, you wouldn't think it, but that 2 inches is going to also change the the feel (in foward weight) and balance of the rifle. Some of this can be solved by attaching a more full stock like an ACS or UBR, but for a smaller person it may not be so great even with it more balanced.
Now an AR by itself is already pretty lightweight. And there are companies that make specific lightweight models as well. But once you start adding optics/foregrip/light/rail/etc., that weight is going to add up fast.
Oh- and speaking of which- if you're going to use it for HD, put a light on it by all means- as you probably already know, you must be able to identify before you can shoot.
Yes- there are 3 good flip sights to check out, off the top of my head- Troy, Midwest Industries, and Magpul. The Troy is probably the best out of the three, followed closely by the MI. The Magpul version is also very respectable, and can be had for a measly 60 bucks. They also make front sights, if you decide to go that direction (ie, railed with no fixed front post). Again, not your only choices, but some good ones that are also easy to find.
PistolWhipped, on 17 November 2010 - 04:43 PM, said:
If you're wanting something a little more compact, try a Dissipator style AR. It has the 16" front end with Rifle length guards, giving you the sight radius of a full rifle (and the room for a rifle length gas system as well). Add your choice of butstock and voila. I'd suggest looking at Magpul furniture.
I'm really liking this style myself, and it has gone on "the list". lol
The new one from BCM with rifle length Magpul handguards looks very promising...
An overview and discussion of it can be read here :My link
On another note- if you like the Dissipator style, you may also want to look into the 'midlength' style, instead of the basic carbine profile- it's like a Diss. with a full length(?) gas tube, but with shorter handguards- the Daniel Defense M4V3 is a good example. Some better features over the standard Carbine style as well, such as less kick and less wear on parts.
PistolWhipped, on 17 November 2010 - 07:14 PM, said:
Personally, I think a good set of Irons is the best way to learn to handle any rifle, and I'd say dropping good money on top quality irons will save you money over dropping money on a top quality Red Dot (Aimpoint is my recommendation there. They have a battery life of about 5 years of constant use.).
Now, if you do go Red Dot, get some solid back up Irons. And if you want the option of reaching out, look into a Red Dot magnifier. Basically it goes behind the red dot and magnifies what you're aiming at 3x, but you have to aim it like a regular scope. They can be put on flip out or Quick Detach mounts for when you want to go both eyes open red dot.
Hammer. Nail. Head.
Now, to be fair, I believe a red dot can be more immediately gratifying for a new shooter, and can help boost confidence by making it easier to get good hits. But in the end, you need to learn the irons. Always have a set of irons set up and zeroed. Ignore all the folks who take theirs off- eventually their fancy red dot will die and they'll be screwed.
And with the minimal size and weight of a set of back ups, there's really no gain to be had without them anyway.
Those magnifiers, just so you know, will cost you at least as much as the sight did.... but darn handy.
ghostinthewood, on 18 November 2010 - 09:05 AM, said:
What do I need to know on the buffer in the buttstock?
I know what match/2stage triggers and that jazz are but what about long/short pin?
There are different weights of buffers- carbine, Heavy (or 'H'), and H2. Or something like that. A lot of it has to do with the length of gas system the rifle's running, as well as other things I can't remember right now.
Imo, don't bother with the match trigger- go out and shoot the rifle stock first before changing all sorts of stuff around.
Anyway- in a nutshell:
Get a quality rifle! Some good brands to look into are Colt, BCM (Bravo Company Manufacturing), Daniel Defense, LMT (Lewis Machine and Tool), and Spike's Tactical (good budget rifles). You're going to pay a little more- however bear in mind that quality rifles like these can be had for very near the cost of a junk (DPMS/Bushmaster/Olympic, and about a millon others...) AR, and will more than make up for the few extra dollars spent with a much higher standard of quality.
Get a full 5.56 chamber, as well as a 1/7 twist barrel. Any of the above brands do this standard. A 5.56 chamber will allow you to shoot both NATO 5.56x45 and .223 ammo- if you get a .223 chambered rifle, it will not be able to handle the higher pressures of 5.56. Also the 1/7 barrel twist will enable you to shoot a wider variety of bullets, from 55 gr. to 70+ gr.- this is useful as both match grade and defensive ammo often come in heavier weights.
Go here:My link
- M4 Carbine.net. Read all the stickies on the forum (namely "Knowledge base threads" in General Discussion). Also if you think up a question, do a google search- site:m4carbine.net then topic. Some folks thing they're a little gun-snobby, but there's a TON of useful info there.
Anyway, I think I've blabbed enough.
Oh- and say Hi to Robin for me.
This post has been edited by Souleater: 19 November 2010 - 12:23 AM