Special Ops Paintball: AR 15 Build - Special Ops Paintball

Jump to content


  • (3 Pages)
  • +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

AR 15 Build I know we have some very informed firearm lovers on here Rate Topic: -----

#16 User is offline   Steel Tiger 

  • Group: Banned
  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 770
  • Joined: 28-October 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Catasauqua, Pennsylvania
  • Brigade Name:Steel Tiger

Posted 19 September 2010 - 07:46 PM

Oh yea, I knew that. I'm pretty sure that was one of the last big things I saw before I left.
Posted Image
0

#17 User is offline   Souleater 

  • Well, I HAD 300 posts....
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 261
  • Joined: 30-January 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Brigade Name:Village Idiot

Posted 28 September 2010 - 08:14 AM

View PostSteel Tiger, on 15 September 2010 - 04:00 PM, said:

.....
1. I believe that if I get a 5.56 barrel, I can also shoot .223 out of it, correct? Or is there a specific barrel i need to purchase with that?

2. Do you guys have any recommendations as to which company to purchase from? I know some are better than others, but I'm not sure which ones are the good ones. I don't want anything too pricey, but just a good "bang for my buck". My budget is $1,100.

3. Do you guys have any recommendations as to where to purchase the parts? Locations with military discounts are preferred, as I can take advantage of those now.

4. I was looking at some of the MOE stuff and i really like it. (Handguard, Stock, Mags) Any word on their stuff? Good or bad?

5. Is there anything else you think I should know before going on this endevour? Keep in mind that I do have experience with the M4, so i am familiar with the basic operations of the AR15 family of rifles.

6. Also, I live in PA, and firearm restrictions are more lax. So dont worry about california restrictions and whatnot.


Thanks Guys!

Curtis

Well, this is a bit belated, but...

1)Yes- what PistolWhipped said.
Although, you really want to get a rifle with a full 5.56 chamber. You may also want to think about barrel/rifling twist rate. If you only plan on shooting 55-62 grain bullets, you'll be ok with the standard 1:9 twist. However, if you have any thought of using heavier bullets in the 75-77 gr. range, you're going to want a 1:7 twist. I'd recommend the 1:7- I don't know what you're planning on using the rifle for, but a lot of defensive ammo is of the heavier type, as is the match stuff. And you can still shoot the 55 gr. just fine. I'd also recommend looking into a midlength gas system.
What size/type rifle are you looking for anyway? Carbine or rifle length?

2&3)BCM. Go here:BCM Uppers. You can get an upper from them in just about any configuration you can think of, and they are hands down top quality. Check out the rest of the site too. And they also sell lowers. Other top notch brands to look into are Daniel Defense, LMT (Lewis Machine and Tool), Noveske, and, as stated previously, Colt. Also, Spikes Tactical makes some pretty decent stuff for a good price. You're going to want to stay away from DPMS. And a good few others. Sorry... But some companies are, plain and simple, under-par.
Check out G&R Tactical too- G&R. He has pretty good deals on lowers, and you can configure them however you want. The site is, a little flukey, so if you can't find what you're looking for, contact him. Also, he sells Blem. BCM lowers. Check these out too, as they generally only have some cosmetic damage, are otherwise functionally fine, and can be had for a good price. There's a ton of places to find parts online these day- just a matter of looking around a bit. You can often find places with better prices than quoted below.

BCM Upper(M4 Carbine)(with BCG/CH):$520
Standard Handguards:$20/Magpul MOE Handguards:$30*
Spikes Lower:$250/DD Lower:$370 (G&R)
Magpul MBUS[?]:$60
Total:$850-980
One Kick@$$ rifle:$ Priceless.:laugh:

Spikes also has their "LE" (standard)carbine for $799 complete.

Now, this is obviously minus an optic, and any associated mounts. Or a full rail and any other goodies. These are going to change your price drastically. The price of a small vehicle comes to mind....
But the point here is, you can build/buy a better rifle than some of the junk out there for the same price. Buy a good quality rifle once, spend a little extra if you have too, and have no regrets.
*On a side note, Magpul midlength handguards aren't available yet, if you decide to go that route.

4)Yes, Magpul's MOE line is very much GTG. As is their other stuff. Especially their mags and stocks. As PW mentioned, Pmags are the way to go. The current revision of these are hands down the best AR mags on the market right now- buy as many as you can. Then buy some more. :D
Although their grips and handguards have really caught on as well. They seem to be one of those rare companies that can make a great product, and still keep a great price.

5)Go here: M4Carbine. Read everything, especially the stickies. There is a ton of info, as well as some extremely knowledgable people on there that can answer and explain any questions you may have.
Also check out the Equipment Exchange- you can find some top quality rifles on there in great condition/low round count, for very good prices.
Posted Image
People who say anything is possible never tried to slam a revolving door!!
There is no problem that cannot be solved with the proper application of explosives and duct tape.
How's that for a contradiction?
0

#18 User is offline   PistolWhipped 

  • Headshot Specialist
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 206
  • Joined: 09-January 07
  • Gender:Male

Posted 28 September 2010 - 09:50 AM

@ Souleater

Great post, though I would like to add a few comments.

I dunno, 5.56 and .223 Wylde chambers are both designed to run bot safely. So the .223 Wylde is just another option, dependent upon his needs.

The ideal Gas system length will be somewhat dependent on the size of rifle he is building. If he is going with a full size M16-type AR2 then a rifle length gas system will be more durable and reliable than a carbine or pistol length one. Midlegth really comes into its own on rifles with full 16"-18" barrels. The 14.5" w/ flash hider tend to run just a little better with the carbine length gas systems from what I've seen.

Also, rifling twist rate is a good point. Really like 1:7" or 1:8" to handle the heavier stuff. Most Rock River stuff is 1:8" which is ideal for the 62 gr. - 69 gr. An interesting note, there are many loads utilizing the Sierra MatchKing 69 grain bullet, as well as defensive loads in that weight, and the XM855 5.56 Green Tip with Steel Penetrator (the 5.56 "AP" round) is 62 grains.

BCM, DD, LMT, and Noveske are all top notch manufacturers. Buy you'll pay top dollar for it too. I've seen solid quality in most DPMS hardware myself, but if I had to mention an AR company to stay away from, Bushmaster comes immediately to mind.

You guys know Spikes Tactical makes Zombie, Pirate, and other interesting lowers for AR15s, correct. Good quality, and just a little more interesting and "fun" than your normal vanilla pieces.

Magpul MBUS are good sights as I've seen, but I still would treat them as an intermediary until I could afford a good solid metal set from Troy or LMT, then relegate them to backups in the kit/range bag. Sights are the biggest factor in riffle accuracy, and with an AR Platform, accuracy is the biggest selling point. I recommend getting GOOD irons and learning to run them well, before moving to optics.

Other than that, awesome post, and thanks for the site. I'm always looking for another place to buy guns. Might have to betray my AK if I find a good deal. Find it a brother or something. Or, God willing, a handgun deal.

This post has been edited by PistolWhipped: 28 September 2010 - 09:59 AM

“You deserve nothing. Remember that.”
Posted Image
My Feedback. +3/-0
0

#19 User is offline   Souleater 

  • Well, I HAD 300 posts....
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 261
  • Joined: 30-January 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Brigade Name:Village Idiot

Posted 28 September 2010 - 10:07 PM

View PostPistolWhipped, on 28 September 2010 - 10:50 AM, said:

....
The ideal Gas system length will be somewhat dependent on the size of rifle he is building. If he is going with a full size M16-type AR2 then a rifle length gas system will be more durable and reliable than a carbine or pistol length one. Midlegth really comes into its own on rifles with full 16"-18" barrels. The 14.5" w/ flash hider tend to run just a little better with the carbine length gas systems from what I've seen.

Exactly.
Which is why I thought to ask that after I had already typed out my response. :facepalm:
As far as the 14.5, if he's going to go NFA, he might as well go full SBR, in the 10-12" range. Honestly, from what I've seen so far, there doesn't seem to be a real huge difference between that and a standard 16". Especially if you start playing with compensators and flash hiders- before you know it you're back around 16". Although I believe I heard something about that, where you can get around the NFA issue if the muzzle accessory is permanently attached....

Quote

BCM, DD, LMT, and Noveske are all top notch manufacturers. Buy you'll pay top dollar for it too. I've seen solid quality in most DPMS hardware myself, but if I had to mention an AR company to stay away from, Bushmaster comes immediately to mind.

You guys know Spikes Tactical makes Zombie, Pirate, and other interesting lowers for AR15s, correct. Good quality, and just a little more interesting and "fun" than your normal vanilla pieces.

Yessir, that you will. Although I've seen quite a few folks with optics that cost more than the rifle. :o
There's a comparison chart stickied in the AR GD forum over on M4C that one of the gurus there made up of the standard rifles from some of the major brands, and it, combined with a lot of other info, explains why it would be worth it to go for a more high-end brand. Now, it's not the final answer to everything, and it's not meant to be. But like I said, it's a good comparison tool, backed up with a lot of solid info.
Yes, BM. And I haven't heard much good about Olympic Arms either...
Ha- yeah I forgot about that. They can definately add some flavor to an AR. Which is nice if you want something a little more personal than Black, FDE, or Foliage green. :laugh:

Quote

Magpul MBUS are good sights as I've seen, but I still would treat them as an intermediary until I could afford a good solid metal set from Troy or LMT, then relegate them to backups in the kit/range bag. Sights are the biggest factor in riffle accuracy, and with an AR Platform, accuracy is the biggest selling point. I recommend getting GOOD irons and learning to run them well, before moving to optics.

True. The Troy BUIS seems to be the AR standard these days, and is what I plan on putting on my new AR. Just as soon as I stop being broke... :angry: I heartily disagree with some of the folks that say "but they're just 'back up' sights". What do you think you're going to be using when your red dot dies? :dry:
That being said, the Magpul sight was cheaper for the budget I was making up, and is durable enough to still get the job done.
Daniel D also makes a nice fixed rear sight for around $65 that is a lot like LMT's, only a little simpler, imo.
Good point at the end there- take the rifle out barebones, and shoot it. A lot. Before adding any fun stuff.

Quote

Other than that, awesome post, and thanks for the site. I'm always looking for another place to buy guns. Might have to betray my AK if I find a good deal. Find it a brother or something. Or, God willing, a handgun deal.

No problemo. There's a ton of stuff on there, as well as firearms- mags, accessories, ammo, take your pick. :D
Btw, if you know anyone in southern VA looking to buy an AR, send me a holler.
Posted Image
People who say anything is possible never tried to slam a revolving door!!
There is no problem that cannot be solved with the proper application of explosives and duct tape.
How's that for a contradiction?
0

#20 User is offline   Thalion 

  • Probably in the Shooters Thread...
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 2,984
  • Joined: 22-January 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Twin Cities, MN

Posted 29 September 2010 - 04:38 AM

Quote

Also, Spikes Tactical makes some pretty decent stuff for a good price.


Wait, you mean there's someone from M4C that doesn't start twitching on hearing the name "Spike's Tactical" and proceed to list off a litany of bad press against them?

Perhaps there is hope for that forum yet.


(For those not in the know, there was a time where the name "Spike's" resulted in a near-instant thread lock, regardless of how relevant it was to the conversation or what you were saying about it)
Member of Team Akkadian

0

#21 User is offline   Souleater 

  • Well, I HAD 300 posts....
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 261
  • Joined: 30-January 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Brigade Name:Village Idiot

Posted 29 September 2010 - 11:16 AM

Yep. Actually, I would bet more than one.
I read some of the old stuff. Apparently some things happened/were said/were implied/whatever.I don't really care. It seems maybe things have changed a bit, both with the people on the forum, and the company.
Now granted, they're still not first choice- while higher quality stuff is available, I'll side with the other folks and go for the Colts, BCMs, and Daniels' every time.
But for a person on a budget or that doesn't see the need or reason to have one of the above, I think they're an excellent choice- at least there's a mid-price rifle that still provides more quality than the other junk every person who's played COD once is vomiting over. :laugh:
And yes, I play COD. And Rainbow 6. And Paintball. And a whole lot of other shooters. They're fun, what? :rolleyes:

This post has been edited by Souleater: 29 September 2010 - 11:19 AM

Posted Image
People who say anything is possible never tried to slam a revolving door!!
There is no problem that cannot be solved with the proper application of explosives and duct tape.
How's that for a contradiction?
0

#22 User is offline   PistolWhipped 

  • Headshot Specialist
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 206
  • Joined: 09-January 07
  • Gender:Male

Posted 29 September 2010 - 06:20 PM

View PostSouleater, on 29 September 2010 - 01:07 AM, said:


As far as the 14.5, if he's going to go NFA, he might as well go full SBR, in the 10-12" range. Honestly, from what I've seen so far, there doesn't seem to be a real huge difference between that and a standard 16". Especially if you start playing with compensators and flash hiders- before you know it you're back around 16". Although I believe I heard somehing about that, where you can get around the NFA issue if the muzzle accessory is permanently attached....



That was what I was referring to. A standard 14.5" barrel with a "permanently" affixed muzzle device is legal as long as the entire shebang is at least 16". No Form 4s and NFA tax stamps.

This post has been edited by PistolWhipped: 29 September 2010 - 06:21 PM

“You deserve nothing. Remember that.”
Posted Image
My Feedback. +3/-0
0

#23 User is offline   Thalion 

  • Probably in the Shooters Thread...
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 2,984
  • Joined: 22-January 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Twin Cities, MN

Posted 29 September 2010 - 07:45 PM

@ Souleater

Yeah, that got a bit heated over there. I also noticed how the US Palm AK magazine thread got a bit heated too (seems a former employee of Gabe who left on bad terms started spreading crap about the magazines, even though Gabe isn't the only distributor of the magazines)

I've dropped by on occasion over there, but I'm not a real fan of the place. I prefer WarriorTalk for most discussions.

I do agree that Spike's is a great budget rifle, and that there is plenty better. For the price tag, it delivers solidly.

And yeah, like PW said, a short barrel with a permanently attached muzzle device (flash hider, brake, etc) is legal if the total between barrel and device is 16" or greater.
Member of Team Akkadian

0

#24 User is offline   Souleater 

  • Well, I HAD 300 posts....
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 261
  • Joined: 30-January 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Brigade Name:Village Idiot

Posted 30 September 2010 - 08:09 AM

View PostPistolWhipped, on 29 September 2010 - 07:20 PM, said:

That was what I was referring to. A standard 14.5" barrel with a "permanently" affixed muzzle device is legal as long as the entire shebang is at least 16". No Form 4s and NFA tax stamps.


Ok. I figured.

View PostThalion, on 29 September 2010 - 08:45 PM, said:

@ Souleater

Yeah, that got a bit heated over there. I also noticed how the US Palm AK magazine thread got a bit heated too (seems a former employee of Gabe who left on bad terms started spreading crap about the magazines, even though Gabe isn't the only distributor of the magazines)

I've dropped by on occasion over there, but I'm not a real fan of the place. I prefer WarriorTalk for most discussions.

I do agree that Spike's is a great budget rifle, and that there is plenty better. For the price tag, it delivers solidly.

And yeah, like PW said, a short barrel with a permanently attached muzzle device (flash hider, brake, etc) is legal if the total between barrel and device is 16" or greater.

Hmm. Yes, I generally stay away from it, but it is dissapointing that things get out of hand at times. Ah well- I guess with a site that big you're bound to have some friction eventually.
I wouldn't know about the AK mag thing- I'm more of an AR lover. :rolleyes:
Posted Image
People who say anything is possible never tried to slam a revolving door!!
There is no problem that cannot be solved with the proper application of explosives and duct tape.
How's that for a contradiction?
0

#25 User is offline   PistolWhipped 

  • Headshot Specialist
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 206
  • Joined: 09-January 07
  • Gender:Male

Posted 30 September 2010 - 08:53 AM

View PostSouleater, on 30 September 2010 - 11:09 AM, said:

I'm more of an AR lover.


Imperialist Swine!

:dodgy: :P
“You deserve nothing. Remember that.”
Posted Image
My Feedback. +3/-0
0

#26 User is offline   Thalion 

  • Probably in the Shooters Thread...
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 2,984
  • Joined: 22-January 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Twin Cities, MN

Posted 30 September 2010 - 09:59 AM

It's not the friction so much as the kind of friction.

Stealing a fictional example:

AK versus AR friction is always fine, for example, because people have preferences. You can argue the merits of one or the other all you like, and if it's civil, it's good.

It isn't good, however, when one side (or both sides) start inventing issues or intentionally misleading others.

Back to M4C:

I've seen some really ugly stuff over on M4C anytime something non-Colt, non-BCM comes along (ok, Daniel Defense kind of gets a pass too). It's practically a religion to them to worship that which is BCM and despise the others.

The other case is when something truly new and different turns up. Then they either seem to hate it or love it (and in the case of the ACR, they hated it first and then started loving it!) But with that one exception in mind, once their mind is made that "X" is the best way to manufacture or do something, and someone else comes up with another path (regardless of merits of said path), they get really nasty about the new method.
Member of Team Akkadian

0

#27 User is offline   Souleater 

  • Well, I HAD 300 posts....
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 261
  • Joined: 30-January 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Brigade Name:Village Idiot

Posted 30 September 2010 - 10:03 PM

View PostPistolWhipped, on 30 September 2010 - 09:53 AM, said:

View PostSouleater, on 30 September 2010 - 11:09 AM, said:

I'm more of an AR lover.


Imperialist Swine!

:dodgy: :P

:laugh:
Mindless Conscript...

Not that I despise the AK- I'll add one to my armory eventually. I just like the AR's better-much more adaptive, accurate, and therefore usefull. :)

View PostThalion, on 30 September 2010 - 10:59 AM, said:

It's not the friction so much as the kind of friction.

Stealing a fictional example:

AK versus AR friction is always fine, for example, because people have preferences. You can argue the merits of one or the other all you like, and if it's civil, it's good.

It isn't good, however, when one side (or both sides) start inventing issues or intentionally misleading others.

Back to M4C:

I've seen some really ugly stuff over on M4C anytime something non-Colt, non-BCM comes along (ok, Daniel Defense kind of gets a pass too). It's practically a religion to them to worship that which is BCM and despise the others.

The other case is when something truly new and different turns up. Then they either seem to hate it or love it (and in the case of the ACR, they hated it first and then started loving it!) But with that one exception in mind, once their mind is made that "X" is the best way to manufacture or do something, and someone else comes up with another path (regardless of merits of said path), they get really nasty about the new method.

I hear ya. It's one thing to argue for the sake of digesting information. Although I do get tired of dead horses being resurrected just so they can be beat to death again. AK vs AR, 9mm vs .45- Do people really care anymore? Bleh! Thankfully there doesn't seem to be much of that anymore.
But what I really can't stand, is the whole 'personal' thing. The thread will be going fine, until one person says something, another attacks it, and what they said is either a direct attack on the person that made the post, or worse perceived as a personal attack. Not on the info, but at the person. And then the fight starts.... :blink: It really ruins the thread for the rest of us who were trying to get information from it, and are now sidetracked by five pages of pointless nonsense until it gets locked. Yay! :dry:

Yes. Love BCM. Worship them. And all will be well. :P
Although, I will say it's not without good cause.

I guess, the purpose of the forum is said to promote the absolute best in the AR world. So despite the fact that it can seem a bit cultish at times, there's usually a good reason. Especially seeing as how there seems to be a penchant for needing to have copius amounts of documented research if you plan on saying X brand is better than Z brand. I can see where some of the anger comes from, after having tons of random people who show up with one asinine post that says "IlovemyBushmasterIjustgotityesterdayhaven'tshotityetbutit'sawesomewhatdoyouguysthink?". :angry: If it annoys me that much, I can understand why some of the folks who've been on there for years go off on them.
As far as new and different goes, I guess there's some truth to the saying, 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it', coupled with my previous on research. It would be kind of dumb for a site full of folks who promote high quality products to all go running off after the newest greatest thing, and then have it turn out to be junk, as well as misleading everyone who you gave info to. That being said, I don't see what would incur the reaction of trashing the product/method. There's a stumper.

This post has been edited by Souleater: 30 September 2010 - 10:07 PM

Posted Image
People who say anything is possible never tried to slam a revolving door!!
There is no problem that cannot be solved with the proper application of explosives and duct tape.
How's that for a contradiction?
0

#28 User is offline   Thalion 

  • Probably in the Shooters Thread...
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 2,984
  • Joined: 22-January 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Twin Cities, MN

Posted 01 October 2010 - 04:39 AM

The classic "bushy" threads happen less often than some of them think.

But it does happen, and it is irritating to even me (who isn't into the BCM deal). My irritation is largely the "new post, new gun, and how great it is even if i haven't shot it yet" more so than "oh, it's not a X made AR".

I think I've seen it happen twice on their forum while I was there. And they were months apart. I saw a lot more "hi-im-a-newbie-and-want-the-best-ar!!!!1!" posts, equally annoying when there's a big FAQ with this chart of materials/assembly done by various manufacturers.

As for newest products, it's one thing to remain neutral until after the testing process is done. It's another to lay on the level of hate for anything not BCM-AR because it's new or different.
Member of Team Akkadian

0

#29 User is offline   Souleater 

  • Well, I HAD 300 posts....
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 261
  • Joined: 30-January 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Brigade Name:Village Idiot

Posted 01 October 2010 - 07:22 AM

View PostThalion, on 01 October 2010 - 05:39 AM, said:

The classic "bushy" threads happen less often than some of them think.

But it does happen, and it is irritating to even me (who isn't into the BCM deal). My irritation is largely the "new post, new gun, and how great it is even if i haven't shot it yet" more so than "oh, it's not a X made AR".

I think I've seen it happen twice on their forum while I was there. And they were months apart. I saw a lot more "hi-im-a-newbie-and-want-the-best-ar!!!!1!" posts, equally annoying when there's a big FAQ with this chart of materials/assembly done by various manufacturers.

Yes, that's what I meant to say. :P

Quote

As for newest products, it's one thing to remain neutral until after the testing process is done. It's another to lay on the level of hate for anything not BCM-AR because it's new or different.

Right. I can understand if it's from a pooey company, but otherwise, really? I just don't get why that would happen....
Posted Image
People who say anything is possible never tried to slam a revolving door!!
There is no problem that cannot be solved with the proper application of explosives and duct tape.
How's that for a contradiction?
0

#30 User is offline   Thalion 

  • Probably in the Shooters Thread...
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 2,984
  • Joined: 22-January 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Twin Cities, MN

Posted 01 October 2010 - 12:01 PM

Two words: Company Politics.
Member of Team Akkadian

0

Share this topic:


  • (3 Pages)
  • +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users