Special Ops Paintball: Newbie to Pumps - Special Ops Paintball

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Newbie to Pumps Looking to get back into the sport Rate Topic: -----

#16 User is offline   Eskimo 

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 02:54 PM

I have the leg pouch and I just put the spent 12ies near the top of the leg holders, and the new ones under ( usually I only have 1 or 2 new on me so its easy to keep track of)

your local stores should carry "shot-gun cartrige" holder thingys, they are "perfect" for 12ies.
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#17 User is offline   Krazy8 

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 04:51 PM

I use a very simple stock class belt. 32 elastic loops. I space mine out to every other loop and can carry 160 rounds with me.
That spacing makes it easy to return my spent tubes to thier location without looking.

The lighter the better IMO.
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#18 User is offline   Cloud254 

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 03:46 PM

I previously stated that I had decided on a Phantom, but then I started to think I would be shooting more than it can handle; more than 10 rounds anyhow, and so, I came across something else. I think they call it a sniper? Or something like that..Can anyone relay to me what this thing is, and where can i get one? :Help:

This post has been edited by Cloud254: 12 September 2010 - 03:47 PM

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#19 User is offline   Eskimo 

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 04:09 PM

A sniper is simply a "autococker" with a Pump arm instead of the pnuematics ( which made the "auto" of "autococker")
Any autococker which has been coverted to a pump is usually called a Sniper,
Many people will run the Sniper's in whats called "open class" ( basically the not-so-new oldschool pump rules)

with a stubbie Tank and a 50 round hopper, or a 100 round, or even a 200$ Rotor on top snipers can be anything you want them to be.
usually you can buy old used snipers if great condition. just takes a little looking around.


and its not the phantom which can't handle 10 paintballs, its you :P
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#20 User is offline   Cloud254 

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 04:28 PM

View PostEskimo, on 12 September 2010 - 05:09 PM, said:

A sniper is simply a "autococker" with a Pump arm instead of the pnuematics ( which made the "auto" of "autococker")
Any autococker which has been coverted to a pump is usually called a Sniper,
Many people will run the Sniper's in whats called "open class" ( basically the not-so-new oldschool pump rules)

with a stubbie Tank and a 50 round hopper, or a 100 round, or even a 200$ Rotor on top snipers can be anything you want them to be.
usually you can buy old used snipers if great condition. just takes a little looking around.


and its not the phantom which can't handle 10 paintballs, its you :P

Touché :rolleyes:

OFF TOPIC:My knowledge of paintball isn't that deep. Some might consider me ignorant in a ways. I know of the majority of current guns, and a few of the old school pumps, but my experience is limited to spyders and tippmanns.
So, if i may, what exactly is an auto-cocker? I have heard of them, and most of the talk about them was bad. Is this true?

BACK-ON TOPIC: How would one go about getting a sniper? Are they mass produced, or a custom thing? And would a Rotor on a pump even be necessary??

This post has been edited by Cloud254: 12 September 2010 - 04:32 PM

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#21 User is offline   Puzuma 

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 06:32 PM

This is an Autococker:
Posted Image

Same marker with the housing removed:
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Short version: It's a semi automatic paintball marker.

What makes them "bad" is that people who have no clue what they are doing will try to re-time it and screw it up. read this to learn more: http://www.endlesspb...ech/timing.html

Other than that is all just personal choice.

Snipers aren't made anymore. WGP was bought out by Kee (I think) and they stopped making them. Instead they made 3 versions of an updated Autococker. Snipers are now more of a custom thing. You can buy a kit that can convert the Autococker into a Sniper.

No you don't need any kind of electronic hopper on any pump marker. However, gravity feed hoppers can jam the balls a bit and need a shake to get started again. Electronic hoppers are supposed to prevent that.

As for a Phantom not being able to handle more than 10 balls... Huh? A stock class Phantom can work with one of two feed tubes: 10 ball and 15 ball. Open class Phantom can handle pretty much any hopper you want to stick on it. Old school is to run a 50 ball pocket hopper. If you want to you can pop a 200 round gravity feed hopper on it, an electronic hopper or (god forbid) run a 400 round Pinokio.

If you are more concerned about the number of balls you can put in the air, then no, most pumps can't shoot more than 3 or 4 balls per second. Mech Semis average 8-10 and electros.. well, most fields limit to 13 but they can top out in the 20's.
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#22 User is offline   Cloud254 

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 07:10 PM

I know that they can handle bigger hoppers, but it looks like that would cause some issues with balance. I don't know. I guess i have every reason to get a phantom, but I like the looks of the sniper. I think i would feel "more at home", if you get me.
Similar weight, similar feeding. I'm used to shooting spyders, so the sniper looks like it would be more..i don't know...but you get what i'm trying to say.
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#23 User is offline   Legato 

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 11:26 PM

Snipers were born in the late 80's. bud orr the founder of WGP, took the old tried and true sheridan design, and updated it. He made the bodies out of aluminum, instead of brass to make them lighter and more modifyable. He added IVG (internal velocity adjuster) stock, so that you wouldn't need to upgrade to get one like you did with a sheridan. He made a threaded barrel instead of fixed, so you could remove it for cleaning and such. He put in a ball detent to prevent double feeds, made it so that you can pull out hte bolt just by removing one pin, then run a squeegee down the top tube for smooth cleaning. He did wonders with the Sniper. Took the Sheridan design and improved it in every level.

Then he met a young Glenn Palmer. Glenn showed budd how his automated design could be adapted to use on his snipers. bud then stole the idea, and patented it, claiming it to be his own idea. An auto cocker is just a sniper with pneumatics up front instead of a pump kit. The pneus do all the pumping. So essentially a cocker is just an automated pump., hence the term Auto Cocker (auto cocking). budd tied the marker cycling down with the slide trigger, just like Palmer did. In fact Palmer was able to develop a swing trigger for his markers years before budd could figure out how to do that to his stolen design. :P Suck it budd

Where does that put us today? When budd retired he handed the reigns to his son, jeff, who promptly sold out to K2. K2 now owned many PB companies. They went on a giant C&D (cease and desist) order against anyone making cockers clones or sniper clones (which was a GINORMOUS amount of companies). Shut a few companies down, Action Markers included. Yet they never went after Palmers...interesting to say the least. This KILLED the cocker market, that and the invention of the ion. WHy would i want to fiddle with tons of adjustments when i can just pay $200, chuck a battery in and be done?

Now cockers are relagated to us old guys who like to tinker or someone who lieks to fine tune their marker just to their liking. A cocker is a techs marker. You can adjust anything and everything on them. This is great in that you can set your trigger pull exactly how long you want, where in the pull it fires, where in the pull it recocks, all sorts of things. It also lead to the downfall as dumb jimmy buys cocker, fiddles with everything, not knowing what he is doing, then comes on forums crying it is broken and he did nothing wrong. And now all cockers suck cause he can't figure them out. This lead to a backlash against cockers, when in reality, it was just dumb people who shouldn't mess with things if they don't know what they are doing.

Ground rule of a cocker, if it works, DON'T TOUCH IT!!! If you don't know what you are doing, only adjust ONE thing at a time, so if it stops working, you can just unadjust that ONE thing. Start fiddling with two or more parts, good luck going back to how you were.

Snipers are great pump markers. Take any cocker, remove pneumatics and throw on pump kit. They feel great, and will feel just like your spyder, as your spyder is based off the same design as the cocker, off the old sheridan design. Spyders are just blowback, internally they are basically the same as a sheridan, just differ in the valve.

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#24 User is offline   Cloud254 

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 04:06 PM

So basically, an auto cocker is an automated pump...Interesting. I read some more stuff about them. They seem to not be overly-complex, but just enough to where if you move the wrong thing it can mess the entire marker up, like when fine-tuning everything to your likes.
How hard would it be to convert a cocker to a sniper? You would need to remove the front..things, right? (i don't know what those things are, the things under the housing in puzumas pictures above. something to do with the pneumatics i'm presuming.) Then there's something to hook the pump up to, correct? But after you add the pump kit, would you need to re-adjust the other parts of the gun? (I think that is what would turn me away from using a sniper/cocker, all the adjusting you need to do.)

But thank you very much for the information, Legato!


Also, has anyone used the Azodin KP/+? My interests tend to change very rapidly lol. Sometimes it's a burden..
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#25 User is offline   Eskimo 

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 07:18 PM

To remove the front pneumatics is fairly straight forward. in Puzuma's second picture of the Autococker you see how the 3 way ( which is technically a 4 way, but lets not get into that) is attached to a little block, which is then attached to the frame of the marker.

Yup you guessed it, Remove the entire block vie screws. And replace with a pump. Not exactly hard. And because your Hand becomes the pumping of it, there is no technical timing to fiddle with, just pull back. put the pump back in the forward position, and shoot.
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#26 User is offline   Legato 

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 10:03 PM

exactly, once you remove the pneumatics, it is fairly simple to operate. The only "timing" that exists in the pump is you setting how far into the trigger pull you want the marker to fire at, and you can set back block distance. Nothing difficult. To swap from semi to pump, pull bolt pin and remove bolt, unscrew cocking rod, unscrew back block from pump arm. Remove the whole front block with one screw, big front block screw. Then attach pump guide rod where the front block screw went, slide pump over it and attach back block to pump arm. Screw cocking rod back into lower tube, slide bolt in and slide pin in to hold that in place. Done.
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#27 User is offline   Cloud254 

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Posted 15 September 2010 - 06:36 PM

Okay, I thought it would be some extremely difficult process that would make be want to burn the gun...Glad it's not, haha! So, now the question is: Where can I get a nice auto cocker for relatively unexpensive, and a nice pump kit to match?

Oo, I read somewhere that there are specific pumps for different year cockers? Any info on that is appreciated!

This post has been edited by Cloud254: 15 September 2010 - 06:36 PM

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#28 User is offline   Legato 

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Posted 15 September 2010 - 11:07 PM

used in the BST area will find you the cheapest cockers. Most already have pump kits. Pre 1999 or pre 2k cockers are one type of pump kit, post 2k cockers take a different one. The only difference is the threading on the front block screw. Pre 2k have a smaller diameter and different threading then the wider post 2k cockers.

For pump kits there are plenty. In the $30 range you have all the basic kits, CCM makes em, wgp does, sanchez, there are a handful. They work and are alright, but you can twist the pump and bind em if you twist to hard. For more cash, $60+ you can get a high end CCM kit, or sanchez or whatever, that has TWO guide rods. Taht makes it so you cant twist it at all. Great kits to have

ALso keep in mind when looking for a cocker to pump you want a normal cocker, not one with a Mini Front block, as the pump kits to those cost $130+. You can tell if it is a mini or not if the front block and front ASA are one piece

Mini - notice the front block and ASA are one piece
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If you don't know what you are looking for, look aroudn for awhile. Cockers come in all flavors, colors and varieties. Some worth FAR more then others. So don't jump on the first one you see. Look around.

This post has been edited by Legato: 15 September 2010 - 11:09 PM

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