Special Ops Paintball: Oh No! I May Have Broken My Baby! Krazy8 / MacDev Geniuses Com - Special Ops Paintball

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Oh No! I May Have Broken My Baby! Krazy8 / MacDev Geniuses Com

#1 User is offline   Malu 

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Posted 25 June 2010 - 02:21 PM

Alright so I had a red 2006 Cyborg, I hate red. So I bought an olive body and trigger frame for it. I figured it would be an easy swap, just take the parts out of a simply marker and replace them in a new body the way they came out. An idiot could do it right? Apparently not for me. So I aired up my 'Borg, and there's a big leak down the barrel. I don't know what this could be... :P The only parts that weren't pictured in the manual and that I could have possibly screwed up would probably be the solenoid area (which seemed pretty self-explanatory so I doubt I screwed that up), the valve (? I think that's what it is, the cup seal goes inside it), and that little odd piece that goes in before the rammer, but after the valve thing. My tank was a little low when I was doing this, but the Gladiator was still reading 200 psi...Please help me guys!

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#2 User is offline   blackcelldrumr15 

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Posted 25 June 2010 - 03:28 PM

Lube the bolt and check the O-rings.
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#3 User is offline   Malu 

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Posted 25 June 2010 - 03:31 PM

Already done...What would lubing the bolt have to do with the leak though?

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#4 User is offline   Puzuma 

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Posted 25 June 2010 - 04:26 PM

From the manual:

Quote

There is a leak from the marker
Check the gauge on the side of the gun. It should be set to approximately 200psi. If the Gladiator needs adjustment, then adjust the pressure (using a 3/32” allen wrench on the bottom of the Gladiator - counterclockwise increases pressure). Then re-chrono the marker - the leak should disappear when the velocity is set correctly.
If the leak persists check the ram switching o-ring to ensure it is not dry or damaged. If the leak still will not disappear, please contact tech. support.


Make sure you have a good, full tank first, just in case there wasn't enough pressure there.
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#5 User is offline   Krazy8 

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Posted 25 June 2010 - 04:29 PM

Lubing the bolt has nothing to do with a leak. And for gods sake...do not lube the boly anyhow. lubes and oils can swell the bolt. Use Tri-Flow bike lube on the bolt orings or nothing at all, dry is better than usingthe wrong lube on an 06.

The cyborg will operate all the way down to about 140-150 psi i your tank...but having a good fill will help you solve the trouble.

The only way to get a leak down the barrel on the cyborg is to have an improper seal between the valve face and popit.

There could be damage to the popit...but I doubt you did anything harsher than set it aside while doing the swap.

The spring that holds the popit tight to the valve could be improperly aligned.

The valve could be in backwards. Convex face of the valve is what the popit seals against.

Oh...you could have damaged the orings on the valve when sliding it into place.


What ever it is that is where you need to concentrate your search. The solinoid should be the last thing that would leak on that gun...they simply do not fail very often at all. I have seen one break down in my years of play.

The ram guide simply holds everything true during use....no need for that to leak unless you again damaged the orings during assembly.

Do you have the valve retaining screw in place?

This post has been edited by Krazy8: 25 June 2010 - 04:33 PM

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#6 User is offline   Krazy8 

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Posted 25 June 2010 - 04:36 PM

OK...lets start here...

MacDev online '06 Cyborg manual

Taken right out of the support page at www.macdev.net

Yes I am sure you have it...but ok I got it out of the way.
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#7 User is offline   Krazy8 

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Posted 25 June 2010 - 04:40 PM

'07 manual Page 5

This has a much better exploded view of the Cyborg. The operational differences in 06 to 07 are nominal so this might help a bit.
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#8 User is offline   Puzuma 

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Posted 25 June 2010 - 04:45 PM

Does the 06 have a bolt ball like the 07(it doesn't show in the 06 manual)? If so, what would happen if that were missing?
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#9 User is offline   Krazy8 

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Posted 25 June 2010 - 04:59 PM

I say start over in the bottom tube.

Remove the LPR, LPR spacer, cup seal spring, cup seal, valve, hammer guide....all of it.

Clean it out, inspect the orings very carefully looking for cut and scrapes cuased by assembly.

Once you are sure the orings are good lubricate with dow 33 or Malitia Lube.

Get the valve in place first. I have put them in backwards...upside down...you name it. Lock it in place with the lock screw, then slide the hammer guide in making sure it is posisioned properly as well, followed by the hammer and end cap.
posistion the cup seal, spring and spacer and replace the LPR.

Then I would like you to zero out the HPR regulator. No air flow. Set the LPR screw flush with the body of the LPR. and increase the HPR until it reads 180 PSI or so.

If you have no leaks you need to stop messing with it at this point until you have a chrono finish dialing everything together.
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#10 User is offline   Krazy8 

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Posted 25 June 2010 - 05:02 PM

View PostPuzuma, on Jun 25 2010, 04:45 PM, said:

Does the 06 have a bolt ball like the 07(it doesn't show in the 06 manual)? If so, what would happen if that were missing?

The bolt pin would not stay locked and it would fail to compleat a full shot cycle since the air wold not be properly directed through the bolt to propel the ball.

Oh and yes...the 06 has a ball and spring like the 07

This post has been edited by Krazy8: 25 June 2010 - 05:03 PM

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#11 User is offline   Malu 

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 10:57 AM

I didn't mess with the bolt, because as far as I know the leak I was describing wouldn't be a bolt issue on a spool valved marker. The valve was flipped around, thank you very much Krazy 8. I got it out to play with it, but unfortunately I was dissapointed. It was extremely inefficient. They were filling us off of a scuba tank, and only getting around 2,000 psi. Oh well, I played anyways because I had used the Phantom almost all day and bought 2,500 rounds and went through 60. Lol. But I was only getting one hopper for 2,000 psi. Something's not right there. Any suggestions?

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#12 User is offline   Krazy8 

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 11:40 AM

Yeah...if you are having efficency trouble then there are only a couple little things that are wrong.

First off you need to check how difficult it is to move the hammer in and out of the sleeve. It should be smooth and when properly broke in nearly slide out just by holding it in the verticle position.
If it is stiff to the point of hard to move you need to find origs that are smaller, This is a common problem on complete rebuilds.

Replacing all the orings puts the gun back into a new from the factory condition and you are faced with a ten to 15 cases of paint break in period again to get the thing back to loverly. This is why we do not recomend complete oring swaps to fix problems.....better to track down the bad oring and replace just that one or two and keep everything else so there is no break in.
I know you simply swaped....but do not be tempted to simply replace everything since it does not really help in the big picture.

After that and the hammer moves nice and smooth we should look at the regulators.

You will need to balance them, just like I mentioned above.

Quote

Then I would like you to zero out the HPR regulator. No air flow. Set the LPR screw flush with the body of the LPR. and increase the HPR until it reads 180 PSI or so.

If you have no leaks you need to stop messing with it at this point until you have a chrono finish dialing everything together.


The other method you can find from other sources works just as well...set HPR to 200 psi, then increase LPR to desired velocity.

Both methods will achieve good results but I have found far better results using the method I quoted for smooth and consistant operation.

The only other thing would be to completely reset the electronic board to factory settings. Often times folks change the setting and take away the great performance of the gun. I run stock settigns...MacDev tests the crap out of these things and the settigns they use are universaly the best option.

Keep us up to date man...I will help you get this thing purring again!
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#13 User is offline   Malu 

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 04:56 PM

Krazy 8 I would like to start off with saying thank you. I think part of the problem could have been a leak I didn't notice. The part that the regulator screws into was a little loose. I'll re tune it using the method you described tomorrow. Just have to fill my tank up. The hammer is extremely smooth so that's okay.

The marker is definitely broken in at this point. I think that I'm going to lubricate the Gladiator and the LPR since I don't know the last time It was done. My only worry with doing that is if my regulator and LPR will take a while to "settle in" if you will. Then if I retune my gun will it need re-tuning later once the parts settle in or whatever? Also, at this point do you think the dwell could be adjusted a little? I just reset the board. Thanks again man.

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#14 User is offline   Krazy8 

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 05:23 PM

There will be no settle in period if you do not make any changes. You will simply be cleaning and lubing the parts.

The only possible settle in period you might need is for the new metal parts to be "polished" by use.

Since your Orings are original and i good shape you should notice no difference in the gun one you get it all balanced out.

Go through it again each area individually. Clean and relube and check for proper assembly. Zero out your regs and adjust them back up to operational settings then leave it alone until you have time to sit at a chron and dile it all in correctly.

Leave your settings at factory defualt untill you know the thing is runningright. Then you can start making small changes to the dwell to find your optimum air efficiency and operational comfort level. Since you plan on keeping this, just take your time.
Do not make changes until you know it is running right. That way when you make a change you will understand the results and be able to adjust accordingly. If you change it all at once....who knows what made it do what it is doing!

One step at a time....start from zero and work you way up.


Oh...and you are welcome!

This post has been edited by Krazy8: 28 June 2010 - 05:23 PM

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#15 User is offline   Malu 

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 05:58 PM

Awesome. I'm going to clean and re lube the Gladiator and LPR tonight. I'll get an air fill tomorrow and start from zero. I love my Cyborg by the way, this baby is here to stay.

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