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Maryland woman tries to cut out unborn baby Rate Topic: -----

#31 User is offline   M.O.P. 

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Posted 09 December 2009 - 07:57 PM

View PostH3 Proto, on Dec 9 2009, 10:57 AM, said:

Quote

Her daughter — named Miracle Sky —

I lol'd and stopped reading there.

QFT.

Maybe the other lady knew what she was naming it and was trying to save the baby from the curse of a weird name....
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#32 User is offline   Flippy the Wonder Bunny 

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Posted 09 December 2009 - 08:29 PM

View PostBobbjoe, on Dec 9 2009, 06:18 PM, said:

And in response to your last quesion: Because it's unborn.

Then why is it a charge of murder if you kill a pregnant woman? You can't have your cake and eat it too. Purposely killing an unborn child can't be murder for one second and then a legal medical procedure the next.

View PostAshrak, on Dec 9 2009, 08:50 PM, said:

How so? It remains a human fetus (thus alive), not that of a cat or a dog.

Agreed. It's a person, not an animal.
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#33 User is offline   Fenrisulfr 

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Posted 09 December 2009 - 08:50 PM

View PostFlippy the Wonder Bunny, on Dec 9 2009, 10:29 PM, said:

Then why is it a charge of murder if you kill a pregnant woman? You can't have your cake and eat it too. Purposely killing an unborn child can't be murder for one second and then a legal medical procedure the next.


Sure it can. Happens all the time in everything else. There really is no black and white in morality.

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View PostAshrak, on Dec 9 2009, 08:50 PM, said:

How so? It remains a human fetus (thus alive), not that of a cat or a dog.

Agreed. It's a person, not an animal.


No one's going to like this but I don't see even a baby as really being alive yet. What is being alive? It's a conscious state of thought. You can't be alive unless you know you're alive. Saying that, anything before said point is a wanted life. It's wanted by the parent, and thus, the parent wants it be alive. If the wanted life is taken, I believe that to be under the qualifications of murder. If it's unwanted... Well, can't really say they were ever really alive.

Think back to your earliest thought. The very first thought you had. The first time you opened your eyes and looked around and retained that information. Before that, you knew nothing. You don't remember anything. You can't really say you were alive since there was nothing before that moment. If I hadn't woken up that one day, I wouldn't have known I existed.

EDIT: Everyone wants it all to be so black and white. Nothing is ever like that.

This post has been edited by Fenrisulfr: 09 December 2009 - 08:53 PM

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#34 User is offline   Flippy the Wonder Bunny 

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Posted 09 December 2009 - 08:56 PM

View PostFenrisulfr, on Dec 9 2009, 09:50 PM, said:

View PostFlippy the Wonder Bunny, on Dec 9 2009, 10:29 PM, said:

Then why is it a charge of murder if you kill a pregnant woman? You can't have your cake and eat it too. Purposely killing an unborn child can't be murder for one second and then a legal medical procedure the next.


Sure it can. Happens all the time in everything else. There really is no black and white in morality.
So if I say, run you over with a car and kill you, is it any different than if a doctor runs you over with a car and kills you or is it still killing someone?

Quote

View PostAshrak, on Dec 9 2009, 08:50 PM, said:

How so? It remains a human fetus (thus alive), not that of a cat or a dog.

Agreed. It's a person, not an animal.


No one's going to like this but I don't see even a baby as really being alive yet. What is being alive? It's a conscious state of thought. You can't be alive unless you know you're alive. Saying that, anything before said point is a wanted life. It's wanted by the parent, and thus, the parent wants it be alive. If the wanted life is taken, I believe that to be under the qualifications of murder. If it's unwanted... Well, can't really say they were ever really alive.

Think back to your earliest thought. The very first thought you had. The first time you opened your eyes and looked around and retained that information. Before that, you knew nothing. You don't remember anything. You can't really say you were alive since there was nothing before that moment. If I hadn't woken up that one day, I wouldn't have known I existed.

EDIT: Everyone wants it all to be so black and white. Nothing is ever like that.

So because you can't remember if means you aren't alive? I can't remember most of the time when I'm asleep, that must mean I'm dead during that time. Oh, and when I can't remember something that happened earlier that day I must have been dead for that period of time.
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#35 User is offline   Cuy'val Dar  

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Posted 09 December 2009 - 09:02 PM

i understand what you're sayin, but i dont entirely agree.

your alive PHYSICALY the moment fertilization occurs.

what you're saying is more of a life through conscious thought. it makes sense, just depends on how you describe life.
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#36 User is offline   Thalion 

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Posted 09 December 2009 - 09:08 PM

Fen, what you're describing as life is actually sentience, not life.

You can be alive without realizing it.
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#37 User is offline   Fenrisulfr 

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Posted 09 December 2009 - 09:18 PM

View PostFlippy the Wonder Bunny, on Dec 9 2009, 10:56 PM, said:

So if I say, run you over with a car and kill you, is it any different than if a doctor runs you over with a car and kills you or is it still killing someone?


Too much of an obvious emotional objection to what I said than one that's being logical or rational. I'm not even going to bother with a reply to that.

Quote

So because you can't remember if means you aren't alive? I can't remember most of the time when I'm asleep, that must mean I'm dead during that time. Oh, and when I can't remember something that happened earlier that day I must have been dead for that period of time.


You're really taking that out of context. You're trying to use one situation against the other. Even if you're asleep, at times you're aware of what's going on. You dream, you can be awoken and everything comes back. I'm talking about the beginning where there is no before. There is no memory of what had happened before that moment. As far as I'm aware, before then, I never knew I was alive. I had no memory of anything before that moment. I can't say I was alive.

View PostThalion, on Dec 9 2009, 11:08 PM, said:

Fen, what you're describing as life is actually sentience, not life.

You can be alive without realizing it.


I'm lead to believe that this is rarely the case though. I've thought about it, but the result always seems the same. You need to know you're alive in order to be alive. Otherwise you're a... Well, a carrot.

This post has been edited by ghostinthewood: 09 December 2009 - 09:59 PM

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#38 User is offline   Ashrak 

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 09:58 AM

Quote

No one's going to like this but I don't see even a baby as really being alive yet. What is being alive? It's a conscious state of thought. You can't be alive unless you know you're alive. Saying that, anything before said point is a wanted life. It's wanted by the parent, and thus, the parent wants it be alive. If the wanted life is taken, I believe that to be under the qualifications of murder. If it's unwanted... Well, can't really say they were ever really alive.


You’re confusing a state of being ‘alive’ with simply being sentient. Skin cells, for instance, are alive. They grow, mature, than flake off as dead skin. Plants are also alive, so your basic premise is faulty. Not being self-aware does mean that one isn’t alive.

As it relates to humans, that isn’t to say that a human fetus is the equivalent of a plant. A human fetus is alive - it needs nutrients to grow, develops organs, and eventually grows into an elderly human and dies, if the cycle of life runs its course.

Irrespective of a human baby’s memory, it still is alive as it grows. That’s why there are miscarriages, that’s why fetus’ can simply die in the womb if they don’t receive the proper nutrients. If something, whatever it is can “die” then before death it has to have been alive. It sounds simplistic, but is true. An wanted child is still alive, regardless of how the parents feels about it. I can wish the sky green, but it doesn’t change the reality that the sky is blue. I can be, well, a bit put out that a hypothetical woman forget to take the pill and is now pregnant, but that doesn’t change that fact that inside of her is growing a fetus which will become a human being.
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#39 User is offline   Flippy the Wonder Bunny 

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 12:18 PM

View PostFenrisulfr, on Dec 9 2009, 10:18 PM, said:

View PostFlippy the Wonder Bunny, on Dec 9 2009, 10:56 PM, said:

So if I say, run you over with a car and kill you, is it any different than if a doctor runs you over with a car and kills you or is it still killing someone?


Too much of an obvious emotional objection to what I said than one that's being logical or rational. I'm not even going to bother with a reply to that.
How so? Killing someone is killing someone.

Quote

So because you can't remember if means you aren't alive? I can't remember most of the time when I'm asleep, that must mean I'm dead during that time. Oh, and when I can't remember something that happened earlier that day I must have been dead for that period of time.


You're really taking that out of context. You're trying to use one situation against the other. Even if you're asleep, at times you're aware of what's going on. You dream, you can be awoken and everything comes back. I'm talking about the beginning where there is no before. There is no memory of what had happened before that moment. As far as I'm aware, before then, I never knew I was alive. I had no memory of anything before that moment. I can't say I was alive.
Just because you don't remember something doesn't mean you weren't alive for it. That makes absolutely no sense.

View PostThalion, on Dec 9 2009, 11:08 PM, said:

Fen, what you're describing as life is actually sentience, not life.

You can be alive without realizing it.


I'm lead to believe that this is rarely the case though. I've thought about it, but the result always seems the same. You need to know you're alive in order to be alive. Otherwise you're a... Well, a carrot.

Carrots are alive.
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#40 User is offline   Puzuma 

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 01:12 PM

View PostM.O.P., on Dec 9 2009, 09:57 PM, said:

View PostH3 Proto, on Dec 9 2009, 10:57 AM, said:

Quote

Her daughter — named Miracle Sky —

I lol'd and stopped reading there.

QFT.

Maybe the other lady knew what she was naming it and was trying to save the baby from the curse of a weird name....


I would think the name was thought of AFTER both mother and child survived the loony.
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#41 User is offline   M.O.P. 

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 02:22 PM

View PostPuzuma, on Dec 10 2009, 03:12 PM, said:

View PostM.O.P., on Dec 9 2009, 09:57 PM, said:

View PostH3 Proto, on Dec 9 2009, 10:57 AM, said:

Quote

Her daughter — named Miracle Sky —

I lol'd and stopped reading there.

QFT.

Maybe the other lady knew what she was naming it and was trying to save the baby from the curse of a weird name....


I would think the name was thought of AFTER both mother and child survived the loony.

That my friend, is the right statement/question. And thats kinda stupid, she will be reminded every time someone says her name of what happened
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#42 User is offline   dextonik 

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 05:34 PM

Christ what is wrong with people? If she didn't want he kid in the first place then she should of avoided haveing sex.
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#43 User is offline   Bobbjoe 

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 07:24 PM

View Postdextonik, on Dec 10 2009, 06:34 PM, said:

Christ what is wrong with people? If she didn't want he kid in the first place then she should of avoided haveing sex.



First, the where do you see that she didn't want the kid? Second, the abortion debate here started to the side and really has nothing to do with the story.

Please read.

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