[psycho91]

ok i was wondering if upgrading a spyder is worth it, yes i know they are considered beginer markers and considered a peice of junk, but i want a marker that isnt going to cost me an arm and a leg and that the parts aernt outragessly expensive if something breaks, that seems to happen every time i get something close to a high end so i want something cheap, i was looking at getting a vs1 and making it all tactical, and then go mow some faces with it in speedball, because im psycho and can do that, any way any help with this would be most appreciated

This post has been edited by psycho91: 28 October 2009 - 11:12 AM

[Puzuma]

I'm not an exert on Spyders but isn't the VS! about $150.00? Add in the interanls and electronic upgrades, new trigger, trigger frame, barrel kit.... You're looking at around a $400.00 total if everything is new.

You could get a Proto SLG UL for $300.00ish, Proto SLG for $200.00 ish, Ion kit for $300ish, SP1 is about $180.00.....


I'm not trying to tell you not to do it, the choice is entirely yours and it's your money. I'm just saying there might be better options for you.

[slinkyaroo]

I think the only upgrade worth putting on a spyder is a new barrel. A cheap one piece like the CP classic.

.

[kage83]

like Puz said...maybe think of other options...SP Vibe ($150).

and like slink said, barrel...otherwise you're looking to get a decent hopper.

[Puzuma]

If he's looking to make it all tactical then the Ion and the SP1 are probably his best options. SP1 already has rails on it. and you can get a Blackcell body for the Ion.

Tippmann just released the X7 Phenom too. Action Village has them on pre-order for $400.00. Most of the current X7 mods fit it.

[Jackson]

A collection of my thoughts on Spyders:

Love them. Simple, cheap, most are built well (more on this later), easy to work on, easy to fix, parts are easy to find.

BUT, you have to realize that they are low end and will almost never be able to achieve high end performance. You can get close, it will cost you a bit, probably not worth it in the end, unless you have a love of Spyders.

Electronic Spyders SUCK. Avoid them. Everything in them is junk. Circuit board, electronic components, everything is total crap. Spyders also get a fair amount of blowback up the feedneck, so you need a pretty good loader to even reach moderate speeds without chopping.

A lot of Spyders are well made. The others are mostly junk.

Good ones:
- Older = Best, these are the "fatty" striker ones. Called this because the striker (or hammer, the lower tube part, lol) is a larger diameter than newer (slim striker) Spyders. Older ones I think were made in like 2003-4 or earlier? I'm not sure on the date. You have to buy them used. Examples are the Classic, Compact (some may not be?), and Special Edition. The SE is the best Spyder made in my opinion. If you can get one, grab it, especially if it's the Compact version (vertical ASA and removable vertical adapter instead of the body being threaded directly). They are very nice.
-Older Slim Strikers are pretty nice too. These are generally characterized by simple two-tube style milling. They just look like two tubes, nothing fancy, just like the older fatty strikers, but with the slim striker instead. Ex: Sonix, TL
-MR-1, built well, tactical looking, all around the closest you will get to the older slim strikers.

Bad ones:
-Electronic, covered this already, everything is junk on them. Oh yeah, they almost all require a 9.6v rechargeable battery and WILL NOT work with a regular 9v. If your batteries dies, you are SOL.
-Fancy milled ones (Pilot, etc). Just never was a fan of these. It seemed like Spyder put more effort into making them look good than work good.

Fatty vs Slim:
The fatty strikers, like I said, were the older Spyders. The striker has a larger diameter. The slim strikers are thinner, but longer. Overall, both have the same weight. Why Spyder changed to the slim version is simple: With the slim striker, the striker is the same diameter as the valve, so the lower tube only needs to be one fixed diameter the entire length of the marker. In the fatty version, the section where the striker moves is larger (duh). Spyder bodies are extruded aluminum, which means they are formed by pushing molten aluminum through a die which forms the rough shape of the body (an 8 shaped body, two tubes). The top and bottom tubes both come out of the die formed. They really don't have to do drill them out. So for a slim striker, the tubes really don't have to actually be drilled. But on a fatty striker body, you cannot create the two diameters necessary for the lower tube. They HAVE to drill and hone the lower tube. This means a smoother finish inside.

Also, the fatty striker has a larger surface area on the front of the striker. This means the marker can recock at a lower pressure since Force = Pressure X Area. You need the same force to recock in both, so with a larger area, you need less pressure. Running Spyders at lower pressure is one of the best thing you can do. A Spyder at unregulated +800 psi sucks. Plain and simple.


Enough ranting/rambling?


Ok, onto the VS idea. Don't do it. The VS is electronic which means the electronics are crap. The entire VS series overall is not that well made. If you want to go tactical, there are better options out there, though a Tippmann platform is much better in terms of simplicity for making into a "tactical" styled marker.

But, you can make your Spyder look tactical. Mine:



It's up top. Yeah, Vietnam era M-16 (still needs the correct era magazine to complete the look, but you get the feel for it). Built from a MR-1.

If you want to make a Spyder perform well, there's a few basic things I recommend.
-Get an older Spyder (either fatty or older slim, Special Edition preferred)
-Vertical ASA/adapter
-Palmers Stabilizer (if you run CO2) or any good reg if you run HPA
-Good barrel (Lapco, J&J, or Palmers are my recommended manufacturers for good 1 piece barrels)
-Spring kit
-Remove the venturi from the bolt

Lower your operating pressure as low as you can and still maintain velocity. You want a light valve spring and a heavy main spring. It will take a fair amount of tweaking to get a good combo. I have my SE running around 5-600psi right now with minimal tweaking, hoping to get that down to 3-400psi. Do this and you'll have a good set up.

My SE (trigger not installed currently, doing some work on it):

This post has been edited by Jackson: 28 October 2009 - 01:25 PM

[TheEnd]

That mr1 is sick. As far as upgrading a spyder, just don't, you will be much better off purchasing a quality marker.

[Xakk]

I did, I regretted it, I hate myself for it, dont do it, unless you really want to of course.

however... my old MR2(marker, not my car) worked on regular 9 volts even though it came with a 9.6 rechargeable.

This post has been edited by Xakk: 28 October 2009 - 03:33 PM

[psycho91]

ok so what about the azodin markers are they any good, i just want a cheap electronic marker that wont give me many problems and the parts for it are cheap, perferably something under $100

This post has been edited by psycho91: 29 October 2009 - 07:16 AM

[Xakk]

for 150 you can get an ION!
Everyone hates that I say that all the time, but they are good markers.
For under 100 you might want to stay away from electros... but I dont know what is on the market now a days. Good Lcuk

[Jackson]

Xakk, on Oct 29 2009, 10:18 AM, said:

for 150 you can get an ION!
Everyone hates that I say that all the time, but they are good markers.
For under 100 you might want to stay away from electros... but I dont know what is on the market now a days. Good Lcuk

You can get an Ion (requires HPA though) or a Vibe/SP1 (can run CO2, not especially well, but it can) for $150-175. Spend a little more, get a whole lot more. For sub-100, stay away from any electronics is my experience.

[slinkyaroo]

Pyscho. Are you using CO2 or hpa? Do you have access to HPA?


.

[The Stuntman]

Im with Jackson...
Alot of the Spyder mechanicals are really not bad at all, but the electros are junk.
Ive had a couple of mechs over the years & all served me well - Compact, Shutter & Rodeo. Not great performers, but solid & fairly reliable. The Rodeo in particular took loads of abuse & kept on shooting.

But really the only reason to put alot of upgrades on a Spyder is if you already have one & can only afford to put in 20-40 bucks at a time over along period. Get a new barrel, then a few months later add something else, etc. Not really worth dropping alot of cash on it at once...if you can afford to do that then you can afford a newer, nicer marker.

[Rathje]

Few thoughts here:

First off, slap on a HPA tank and a good electric loader, and a crappy Spyder will shoot better than a Dangerous power with a gravity loader.

So go out and buy a Halo Too, Viewloader Eye Force, Halo B, or even a Dye Rotor if you've got the cash. That should be your first "upgrade" on a Spyder besides a barrel (and a feedneck if you've got one of those crap plastic elbow ones).

Second upgrade is to get off CO2. Go buy a cheap PMI high pressurized air tank for $50.00. If you can afford it, get one of those better tanks for the $100 to $150 range. You'll get a lot more pressure consistency.

Your gun will shoot tons better just for doing this. And the good news is that when you decided to upgrade to a better gun, you've already got a tank and loader worth putting on it.

I wouldn't upgrade a basic Spyder much beyond that. You're better off just getting a new gun.

For $299.00 you could get a Dangerous Power G3 or an Invert Mini. For under $200.00 you could get a Smart Parts Vibe, or Azodin Blitz. Much better guns than what you'd wind up with by tricking out a Spyder Victor or something.

One thing Jackson...

I'm fairly new to the sport, and this is just what I've heard around, but I've heard a lot of people saying that since Kingman switched its product line to industry-standard parts and measurements, the guns haven't been that bad. I've heard the Spyder Electra compared very favorably with the Azodin Blitz, and Smart Parts Vibe. Seems to be a pretty good low-level electric gun actually (for those of us who don't want to break $500.00 on a paintball gun).