Special Ops Paintball: 9/11 - Special Ops Paintball

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9/11 Never forget, you inconsiderate Rate Topic: -----

#16 User is offline   Ashrak 

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 08:58 PM

Kill or be killed - that is war.

Of course our political leadership of the past nine years thought war could actually be some grand social engineering experiment as well. Nope, doesn't work like that.
Alea iacta est ~ The board is set, the pieces are moving.
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Like the leaves of the forest when Autumn hath blown, That host on the morrow lay withered and strown. ~ Destruction of Sennacherib

~ Believe me, dear Sir: there is not in the American states a man who more cordially loves a union with his country than I do. But, by the God that made me, I will cease to exist before I yield to a connection on such terms as the United States Congress proposes; and in this, I think I speak the sentiments of America. ~ Thomas Jefferson (modernized)
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#17 User is offline   TheEnd 

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 08:58 PM

The writer of that letter is foolish, and ignorant. No, we haven't forgotten, how could we forget? The writer of that letter makes me think of something that I have always felt is true, "An eye for an eye, leaves the whole world blind."

Not all Islamic people are terrorists, actually very few are. I am an atheist, but even I don't feel that anyone's religion should be disrespected, everyone has a right to their own opinions. People like that just spread ignorance like a disease.
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#18 User is offline   Ashrak 

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 09:02 PM

Disrespect...what about honesty? There ain't a whole lot to smile about in Islamic theology or the Qur'an and that's a fact. And this does not infer anything about the beliefs of professed Muslims, merely about the scriptural teachings of the Qur'an.

As for Ghandi, the man may have been a pacifist, but thugs with machetes and clubs still fought for his cause taking people's eyes, as it were.

This post has been edited by Ashrak: 10 September 2009 - 09:05 PM

Alea iacta est ~ The board is set, the pieces are moving.
~ Like the leaves of the forest when Summer is green, That host with their banners at sunset were seen:
Like the leaves of the forest when Autumn hath blown, That host on the morrow lay withered and strown. ~ Destruction of Sennacherib

~ Believe me, dear Sir: there is not in the American states a man who more cordially loves a union with his country than I do. But, by the God that made me, I will cease to exist before I yield to a connection on such terms as the United States Congress proposes; and in this, I think I speak the sentiments of America. ~ Thomas Jefferson (modernized)
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#19 User is offline   Thalion 

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 09:08 PM

Believe it or not, I don't really recall a lot of the "where were you when..." stuff - the main thing I do recall however is seeing the second plane hit on the TV in school and thinking to myself, I recognize this MO, it's come here now.

I was later proven correct as to the "who" of what had hit us - I had seen firsthand the strategy of suicide attacks, trading few lives for many, when I had visited Israel. I do recall I was mocked for my statement that day, but that week was proven right.

View PostAshrak, on Sep 10 2009, 11:02 PM, said:

As for Ghandi, the man may have been a pacifist, but thugs with machetes and clubs still fought for his cause taking people's eyes, as it were.


Ironic, and yet accurate.

This post has been edited by Thalion: 10 September 2009 - 09:09 PM

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#20 User is offline   Ashrak 

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 09:10 PM

Funny how that works sometimes.
Alea iacta est ~ The board is set, the pieces are moving.
~ Like the leaves of the forest when Summer is green, That host with their banners at sunset were seen:
Like the leaves of the forest when Autumn hath blown, That host on the morrow lay withered and strown. ~ Destruction of Sennacherib

~ Believe me, dear Sir: there is not in the American states a man who more cordially loves a union with his country than I do. But, by the God that made me, I will cease to exist before I yield to a connection on such terms as the United States Congress proposes; and in this, I think I speak the sentiments of America. ~ Thomas Jefferson (modernized)
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#21 User is offline   Thalion 

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 09:12 PM

View PostAshrak, on Sep 10 2009, 11:10 PM, said:

Funny how that works sometimes.


Which, the irony or the being proven right because you've the pattern firsthand before?
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#22 User is offline   Ashrak 

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 09:13 PM

Aah, the irony. Sorry for not being clear.
Alea iacta est ~ The board is set, the pieces are moving.
~ Like the leaves of the forest when Summer is green, That host with their banners at sunset were seen:
Like the leaves of the forest when Autumn hath blown, That host on the morrow lay withered and strown. ~ Destruction of Sennacherib

~ Believe me, dear Sir: there is not in the American states a man who more cordially loves a union with his country than I do. But, by the God that made me, I will cease to exist before I yield to a connection on such terms as the United States Congress proposes; and in this, I think I speak the sentiments of America. ~ Thomas Jefferson (modernized)
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#23 User is offline   PistolWhipped 

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 09:22 PM

I remember when this occurred. I remember everything. I thought I might have lost an uncle in the Pentagon strike. Clear as if it were yesterday.

Too bad the pussies in politics wouldn't COMMIT the necessary resources to WIPE THOSE BASTARDS from the face of the Earth. If militant Islamists want to die and go to Allah so bad, let's speed up their FRAGing trip. Forget one at a time. You harbor terrorists, and we cut the coy poo. YOu get bombed into dust.

Now if DC would have ever grown a pair, this whole situation could have been resolved differently. Now we're sending a few hundred kids at a time to die in a giant sandbox instead of sending an overwhelming force to totally and completely eliminate the threat.

Politicians are pussies. The fact that it's been almost a decade with almost no progress in Afghanistan is a clear indicator of that.

This post has been edited by PistolWhipped: 10 September 2009 - 09:26 PM

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#24 User is offline   Thalion 

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 09:29 PM

Absolutely agreed PW.

No political games, either decide you want no part of it and leave us alone (and then we'll leave you alone in kind), or get ready for fullscale fighting.

Instead, we're tying our own hands and mismanaging everything there is about the war.

I supported the decision to go to Afghanistan. I also supported the decision to go to Iraq.

I do not approve of how Bush ran things, and I'm just as unhappy with how Obama's ran things. Now, we're looking at most of our enemy running away to Pakistan, and we're still sitting around trying to nation build with people who simply don't want or are not ready for a democratic form of government -- they're just looking for "can we get American support to get stuff for our side and make our sect/group/whatever the rulers?"

That's true for both Iraq and Afghanistan, and it sickens me that Bush and Obama are willing to play that kind of game. If I ran it, it'd be overwhelming force on enemy, then pack up and move on. The locals can decide how they want to rebuild.
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#25 User is offline   MaDuce 

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 09:45 PM

To qualify my statement so as not to incur the wrath and scorn of the right-wing warhawks: :)

I certainly would like to see an end to terrorism. Islamic or otherwise. I'd like to see them stopped, killed if need be. However, I'd also like us to go about it in such a way that we are not creating more terrorists. Preferably, in such way that does not compromise the values which we claim make us better than them.

You can argue this isn't about lofty principles, but about self-preservation. True, but remember, that's what bears do. We are not bears.

On a lighter note: Is anyone terrified of terrorists?

To al-Qaeda: I think you've failed. See, 'cause we're not quivering in fear of you. We are not looking over our shoulders for suicide bombers or masked gunmen. We're too busy engaging in debauchery and material excess and AP Chemistry homework to be scared of you.

Then again, perhaps their goal was never to scare us, but rather to provoke an overreaction from the government which will slowly lead to a revolution and anarchy--such has been the goal of terrorism since it's inception in Russia by Sergei Nachaev in the 1860s. But that's a conversation for another day and another thread.
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#26 User is offline   Ashrak 

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 09:48 PM

That's hubristic Duce, very hubristic.

Sure, write off Al-Qaeda....that's a wonderful idea. :)

What about the subsidiaries? Their self-sustaining and entrenched ideology of jihad that stretches over the world? They're not "just another terrorist group" with just simply terrorist goals. I suggest you peek at "The Al-Qaeda Reader" before comparing them to some dead Russian.

It is easy to moralize in war when you've never come close to stepping on a pressure plate for an IED.As of now, U.S. soldiers are sent into combat without the promise of air support. They're told to be sitting targets 'protecting civilians, but not killing Taliban' (sounds kind of 'Peace with Honor' to me), and get this, culturally insensitive night raids have been discontinued. Really? There is a motto of the U.S. Army Rangers, and it says "We own the night". That is true. So now, because our political leaders think social engineering is fun from a nice safe cubical in Washington, you remove an important tactical advantage from the hands of your troops? What nonsense is this?

You're not going to win in Afghanistan being a police force, fighting of Taliban incursions from the Hindu Kush. And the minute you step into the Hindu Kush, you're dead. That is where America has lost SEAL teams for crying out loud. Additionally, the Taliban soldiers are becoming more and more tactically proficient in combat. Jihadist military trainers, quite literally they're equivalent of Green Berets, are running camps in the Af-Pak border region, training old soldiers and new recruits. Even early in the Afghanistan War, Chechen mujahidin were behind the deadly ambushes such as Robert's Ridge, and others.

Bottom line, don't fight in the mountains. When we get the Taliban on the plains, in the open, our military can smash them. But first you have to actually lure them out to the plain.

This post has been edited by Ashrak: 11 September 2009 - 07:24 AM

Alea iacta est ~ The board is set, the pieces are moving.
~ Like the leaves of the forest when Summer is green, That host with their banners at sunset were seen:
Like the leaves of the forest when Autumn hath blown, That host on the morrow lay withered and strown. ~ Destruction of Sennacherib

~ Believe me, dear Sir: there is not in the American states a man who more cordially loves a union with his country than I do. But, by the God that made me, I will cease to exist before I yield to a connection on such terms as the United States Congress proposes; and in this, I think I speak the sentiments of America. ~ Thomas Jefferson (modernized)
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#27 User is offline   Ashrak 

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 09:56 PM

View PostPistolWhipped, on Sep 11 2009, 12:22 AM, said:

Politicians are pussies. The fact that it's been almost a decade with almost no progress in Afghanistan is a clear indicator of that.


I think you're insulting the pussies.
Alea iacta est ~ The board is set, the pieces are moving.
~ Like the leaves of the forest when Summer is green, That host with their banners at sunset were seen:
Like the leaves of the forest when Autumn hath blown, That host on the morrow lay withered and strown. ~ Destruction of Sennacherib

~ Believe me, dear Sir: there is not in the American states a man who more cordially loves a union with his country than I do. But, by the God that made me, I will cease to exist before I yield to a connection on such terms as the United States Congress proposes; and in this, I think I speak the sentiments of America. ~ Thomas Jefferson (modernized)
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#28 User is offline   PistolWhipped 

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 09:58 PM

No offense Duce, while that is an admirable view, it seems a bit idealistic.

We are not here to prove we are "better" than them. The fact we did not fly planes into any of their massive population centers settles that. We are there to eliminate the threat to our nation's security. But for some reason, Washington seems to be of the mind that the animals who initiated these attacks deserve some level of sporting chance. I disagree.

We do not need to make friends.

We do not need to play nice.

We DO need to put down the animals that initiated these attacks, and those whom would aid, abet, and harbor them.

Really it is that simple. People like to overcomplicate things. If they want to die and go to Allah, we send them on the way. Not put squads of kids barely out of high school in Hummers waiting to get shredded by IEDs. This is not some moral holy war. Militant Islamists would like to make it one, but why fight on their terms?
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#29 User is offline   ger 

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 10:00 PM

View PostAshrak, on Sep 10 2009, 11:05 PM, said:

The men and women of Flight 93 were relegated to a small blurb on page 4A of the Washington Post today.

That's it.

Sickening.

Sickening to say the least. The fact that the passengers on that flight most likely saved numerous lives on the ground somewhere in DC should allow them a bit more attention in the capitols newspaper.

I for one won't ever forget... ever.
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#30 User is offline   Ashrak 

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 10:01 PM

The thing about the Jihad is that no one, save for a devout Muslim (definition subject to change on a whim), is a so-called innocent civilian. Jihadists fight war with mercy, without compassion, and without standards. They are cunning, they are dedicated, and they are well trained. If we do not mean to fight this war as it should be, which means no nation building, every life spent is a waste for we shall never win.

We have lost Afghanistan. Period. We've lost, because of eight years of bad tactics and trying to socially engineer the Afghan people. The military is not a police force - it is meant to conquer.
Alea iacta est ~ The board is set, the pieces are moving.
~ Like the leaves of the forest when Summer is green, That host with their banners at sunset were seen:
Like the leaves of the forest when Autumn hath blown, That host on the morrow lay withered and strown. ~ Destruction of Sennacherib

~ Believe me, dear Sir: there is not in the American states a man who more cordially loves a union with his country than I do. But, by the God that made me, I will cease to exist before I yield to a connection on such terms as the United States Congress proposes; and in this, I think I speak the sentiments of America. ~ Thomas Jefferson (modernized)
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