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Tippmann money pit vs speedball markers I have a decision to make, help me out plz Rate Topic: -----

#31 User is offline   Niceguy74 

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Posted 28 January 2009 - 06:46 PM

this might be turning into one of those "speed vs woods" things.

if the guy wants a gun HE LIKES....dont nag about it. maybe he doesnt play speedball.

he is military, and just maybe wants a gun that feels military. the a-5 is a great gun. and it is reliable. just like an old M1 Garand, you can beat the crap out of it, dunk it in water...and it still fires.

as for the remark about an A-5 on a speedball field not being enough, i need you to come to illinois and meet a dude who is about 57 years old, and is a great woods player, and i have seen him outnumbered 4 to 1 on an airball field....and he won with his A-5, against 4 speedball players. they were none too happy.

those arguments over what gun is best and all that drives me insane!!!!!! stop the crap.

any gun can be good, any gun can be bad. its what can happen during mass production. just like any car from any maker.

it isnt the gun that makes the difference, it is the player. you can have all your eteks, ions, and that other stuff, fire 4,000 shots to get 3 people out with $700 guns. i will take a simple T8 with 2 spare clips and stalk a ridge, nailing 8 guys in 15 shots. which i did, in a big game near Halloween.


just leave it alone..........................
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Posted 28 January 2009 - 06:49 PM

View PostNiceguy74, on Jan 28 2009, 07:46 PM, said:

this might be turning into one of those "speed vs woods" things.

if the guy wants a gun HE LIKES....dont nag about it. maybe he doesnt play speedball.

he is military, and just maybe wants a gun that feels military. the a-5 is a great gun. and it is reliable. just like an old M1 Garand, you can beat the crap out of it, dunk it in water...and it still fires.

as for the remark about an A-5 on a speedball field not being enough, i need you to come to illinois and meet a dude who is about 57 years old, and is a great woods player, and i have seen him outnumbered 4 to 1 on an airball field....and he won with his A-5, against 4 speedball players. they were none too happy.

those arguments over what gun is best and all that drives me insane!!!!!! stop the crap.

any gun can be good, any gun can be bad. its what can happen during mass production. just like any car from any maker.

it isnt the gun that makes the difference, it is the player. you can have all your eteks, ions, and that other stuff, fire 4,000 shots to get 3 people out with $700 guns. i will take a simple T8 with 2 spare clips and stalk a ridge, nailing 8 guys in 15 shots. which i did, in a big game near Halloween.


just leave it alone..........................



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#33 User is offline   ghostinthewood 

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Posted 29 January 2009 - 10:49 PM

View PostMech CB, on Jan 28 2009, 10:10 AM, said:

Oiling is not the reason they kept having issues. We're military that work with air tools. We know about keeping weapons oiled along with any tool that has moving parts....

Personally, I think the issue was that they bought used markers that might have had prior problems. That and their markers didn't seem to like the brush for some reason.


They understood thier markers though, so that wasn't the issue. They just had markers with issues. Hell, one of the guys used to play on a speedball team and everything. Still had his red suit too. Still don't know how that guy was able to hide in the woods wearing a complete red outfit. :P

Air Tools =/= Air Guns

So they dont have accurate testimonies. Proves nothing.

Eh, bright colors left speedball fashion statements in the 90s and early 2000s. I played in a red T once and ambused a squad by myself behind their lines. *shrug* anyone can do it really... theres no special button to push.


View PostNiceguy74, on Jan 28 2009, 06:46 PM, said:

this might be turning into one of those "speed vs woods" things.

if the guy wants a gun HE LIKES....dont nag about it. maybe he doesnt play speedball.

he is military, and just maybe wants a gun that feels military. the a-5 is a great gun. and it is reliable. just like an old M1 Garand, you can beat the crap out of it, dunk it in water...and it still fires.

as for the remark about an A-5 on a speedball field not being enough, i need you to come to illinois and meet a dude who is about 57 years old, and is a great woods player, and i have seen him outnumbered 4 to 1 on an airball field....and he won with his A-5, against 4 speedball players. they were none too happy.

those arguments over what gun is best and all that drives me insane!!!!!! stop the crap.

any gun can be good, any gun can be bad. its what can happen during mass production. just like any car from any maker.

it isnt the gun that makes the difference, it is the player. you can have all your eteks, ions, and that other stuff, fire 4,000 shots to get 3 people out with $700 guns. i will take a simple T8 with 2 spare clips and stalk a ridge, nailing 8 guys in 15 shots. which i did, in a big game near Halloween.


just leave it alone..........................

So you're going to use a "player makes the gun" argument, but then you mention an old guy who is takin on 4 "speedballers". You can either be implying that he is very good; and that has nothing to do with the argument about markers; or that his gun is superior and you contradicted yourself. Either way the argument doesnt prove anything relevant. Sounded good though i guess...

Using yourself in a similar example for the same argument doesnt help your cause either.

This post has been edited by ghostinthewood: 29 January 2009 - 10:53 PM

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#34 User is offline   I.K.E. 

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Posted 29 January 2009 - 11:16 PM

I'm just going to throw in the "You're spending HOW MUCH on a marker??" argument again. I just don't see the use in overspending. I can see buying for quality, and I can see buying for aesthetics. But there is a point where you have to admit that most of the fun in paintball is playing the game, and that you should budget your money to get the most playtime that you can.

That's just my take. I can't see shelling out more than $300 from an $800 limit just for the marker. I suppose if you were seriously playing, and looking for a sponsor (as well as a decent chance of landing one), then investing more might make sense. But in any non-professional aspect of this game, it seems outlandish. This is coming from the guy who spends less than $30/mo to play. (Because he can't afford more)

As for which actual marker....I find the speedball VS milsim/woodsball argument to be downright useless and inane. Each marker needs to be evaluated on its merits, regardless of whether it is classified as space gun or deadweightbulkmachine.
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#35 User is offline   motherboard1 

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 11:14 AM

View PostBobbjoe, on Jan 27 2009, 10:50 PM, said:

View PostChaos, on Jan 27 2009, 11:20 PM, said:

View Postmotherboard1, on Jan 27 2009, 05:48 PM, said:

Thats if your gonna go A5. But if your intent on spending $600 then get one of the recommended speedball guns.

G3= $300...
Mini= $330
Used Etek ~ $400
Watching a noob waste money on a Tippmann, Priceless

No matter how much money you put into a Tippmann, it's STILL a Tippmann, and will never match up to the performance of a quality speedball marker, built for the purpose of playing paintball, not looking cool walking through the woods.


Pwnt :panzer:


You "Phail" to understand my post :laugh:
Why "Pwn" an argument that never existed?

Used A5 + APE board + squishy paddles (replaces speedball loader) = $200 or less.

Besides, the point of the post was to steer him away from wasteing loades of $$$ on milsim, not to scoff at the price of speedball guns. I have nothing against any of the markers you mentioned.
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#36 User is offline   Niceguy74 

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 12:05 PM

View Postghostinthewood, on Jan 29 2009, 11:49 PM, said:

So you're going to use a "player makes the gun" argument, but then you mention an old guy who is takin on 4 "speedballers". You can either be implying that he is very good; and that has nothing to do with the argument about markers; or that his gun is superior and you contradicted yourself. Either way the argument doesnt prove anything relevant. Sounded good though i guess...

Using yourself in a similar example for the same argument doesnt help your cause either.



well, i could have worded it better....it was meant to show that an A-5 CAN BE USED on a speedball Field. previous remarks were implying that it was no good for it. i was responding to them. dont go looking for an argument.

it also shows that it has a lot to do with the player too. of the 4 guys he was up against, 3 of them had guns designed for the faster speedball style of game, full electric, all that jazz. those guys had some experience, they are pretty good players.

the player does make the gun. you could give a stud player a pump gun and pit him against 3 noobs with autos and he could win. in any game or sport, talent always comes first. why even argue that point? sure, technology does have its uses and improvements, but talent is more.

when i was using my own experience, that was to show that you dont always need the gun that blasts a zillion shots a second. there tends to be too many people in here leaning the way of firing a hose of paint to win the game. it was just further proof that its not always the case. so yes, it helps prove my point a lot.
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#37 User is offline   ghostinthewood 

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 12:15 PM

View PostNiceguy74, on Jan 30 2009, 12:05 PM, said:

View Postghostinthewood, on Jan 29 2009, 11:49 PM, said:

So you're going to use a "player makes the gun" argument, but then you mention an old guy who is takin on 4 "speedballers". You can either be implying that he is very good; and that has nothing to do with the argument about markers; or that his gun is superior and you contradicted yourself. Either way the argument doesnt prove anything relevant. Sounded good though i guess...

Using yourself in a similar example for the same argument doesnt help your cause either.



well, i could have worded it better....it was meant to show that an A-5 CAN BE USED on a speedball Field. previous remarks were implying that it was no good for it. i was responding to them. dont go looking for an argument.

it also shows that it has a lot to do with the player too. of the 4 guys he was up against, 3 of them had guns designed for the faster speedball style of game, full electric, all that jazz. those guys had some experience, they are pretty good players.

the player does make the gun. you could give a stud player a pump gun and pit him against 3 noobs with autos and he could win. in any game or sport, talent always comes first. why even argue that point? sure, technology does have its uses and improvements, but talent is more.

when i was using my own experience, that was to show that you dont always need the gun that blasts a zillion shots a second. there tends to be too many people in here leaning the way of firing a hose of paint to win the game. it was just further proof that its not always the case. so yes, it helps prove my point a lot.

I wasn't looking for an argument, I was just saying yours was flawed. I was pointing out that you were not proving your point well. If you havnt noticed, I havnt really picked a side...

Exactly. Your argument is based on talent, not the marker. You do not talk about regulators, maintenence, money pits, or electronics that will make you coffee. The argument proposed in the thread was about markers, not skill. Naturally a better player can use a worse marker and still do well. Thats been accepted through the years of these types of threads, but that is still not the argument at hand.

Have you taken a poll to see how people play? I havnt seen one on here recently but the trend is most people think like you and claim everyone else on here is a speedballer wanabe who shoots a lot of paint (which doesnt make sense since PSP is capped and SPPL is selectivly capped) and theyre the only one who knows how to aim.

You want to be better than the person equal than you. More than likely you're not playing pros (and for the smart aleks that say they have or this and that, so have I. I'm talkin about majority...). All skill and team equal, it'll come down to the marker more than likely. You want the least things to go wrong and most things to go right in several areas because most people dont have the skill to huck paintballs to get someone out while theyre shooting at you. Even pump markers have "high-ends". The godly pump players who dont even need to look at people to shoot them. The ones who can fire a single ball and shoot someone off the break. The ones that can kick a paintball in the air and shoot it in the air. They still have the option to buy expensive pumps. So what does that say?

Believe it or not but equipment matters more in paintball than most other sports. There are caps and chronos, but there isnt a standard equipment. Tennis rackets and thsi and that arent standard either, but they dont have electronics and projectiles. That is the only thing that keeps these topics semi-relevant.

This post has been edited by ghostinthewood: 30 January 2009 - 12:18 PM

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#38 User is offline   Mech CB 

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 01:56 PM

air tools do equal paintball guns when your talking about the fact that theres moving parts that must stay lubricated. also, between cleanings, you just drop some oil in the asa just like you can with an air tool.


the point with the speedballer wasn't that he had bright colors on-thats just a side note. the point was that neither he, nor us are new to our paintball markers.


whenever someone mentions a gun having issues, everyone on here always jumps on the same boat about the gun being improperly lubed. while lubing does do a lot and solves a lot of issues, it doesn't solve evevrything. sometimes you just have a crappy gun.

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#39 User is offline   ghostinthewood 

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 02:04 PM

View PostMech CB, on Jan 30 2009, 01:56 PM, said:

air tools do equal paintball guns when your talking about the fact that theres moving parts that must stay lubricated. also, between cleanings, you just drop some oil in the asa just like you can with an air tool.


the point with the speedballer wasn't that he had bright colors on-thats just a side note. the point was that neither he, nor us are new to our paintball markers.


whenever someone mentions a gun having issues, everyone on here always jumps on the same boat about the gun being improperly lubed. while lubing does do a lot and solves a lot of issues, it doesn't solve evevrything. sometimes you just have a crappy gun.

Most high end markers require more than oil in the ASA. Some of them, its damaging. So you kind of proved my point...

Fair enough.

Why is it a crappy gun? Most of the time it isnt the manufacturers fault and that the point...
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#40 User is offline   Mech CB 

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 04:18 PM

sometimes you just have a gun put together poorly. if all paintball markers were equal, each manufacturer would only have one style of each line of thier markers. for example(i'm using cars because i can't think ofo the marker i have pictured in my head), ford has several versions of the mustang. if you get the top of the line mustang, you're getting a decent car. but if you go for, say-the v6 convertable, you have a piece of junk just due to how they built it to make it affordable. i've seen some speedball markers use this same idea. they have thier flagship marker that everyone wants, and then they may have one or two cheaper versions. people get the cheaper version thinking they'll upgrade it in time.

it's killin me tryin to remember who i have in mind though!

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#41 User is offline   ghostinthewood 

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 04:31 PM

View PostMech CB, on Jan 30 2009, 04:18 PM, said:

sometimes you just have a gun put together poorly. if all paintball markers were equal, each manufacturer would only have one style of each line of thier markers. for example(i'm using cars because i can't think ofo the marker i have pictured in my head), ford has several versions of the mustang. if you get the top of the line mustang, you're getting a decent car. but if you go for, say-the v6 convertable, you have a piece of junk just due to how they built it to make it affordable. i've seen some speedball markers use this same idea. they have thier flagship marker that everyone wants, and then they may have one or two cheaper versions. people get the cheaper version thinking they'll upgrade it in time.

it's killin me tryin to remember who i have in mind though!

So you're implying you pay for what you get. That is a pretty solid statement, its used for lots of arguments.

However, Tippmann doesnt make any high end markers...
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#42 User is offline   Mech CB 

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 05:16 PM

yes, thats a good way to put it.

tippmann does make high-end markers as far as build quality goes, just not speed. the origional arguement that i was replying to is are speedball markers better than or equal to woodsball markers(tippmanns to be exact) in quality. some guys implied that all speedball markers are just as good if not better as long as you maintain them. properly maintaining your marker should be second nature to anyone with a gun, so i don't even consider that factor when talking about markers.

my point i was trying to get at is not all speedball markers are reliable. and the ones that are, tend to need a LOT of up keep. however, if he sticks with his tippmann, he will have a reliable marker without as much up keep. he could spend the money real quick on the ups he wants and then just maintain the marker from there.

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 05:22 PM

View PostMech CB, on Jan 30 2009, 06:16 PM, said:

yes, thats a good way to put it.

some guys implied that all speedball markers are just as good if not better as long as you maintain them. properly maintaining your marker should be second nature to anyone with a gun, so i don't even consider that factor when talking about markers.



But some people claim that tippmanns are more durable because they never have to be cleaned.

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#44 User is offline   Niceguy74 

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 05:23 PM

some people have tippmanns and they have never had an issue. some people have the "high end" stuff, and have never had an issue.

some people have had nothing but problems with either kind of gun.

i dont think a tippy is any more of a "money pit" than any other gun. its all in what you want to do to it, buy for it, or spend to use it.

yes, there are some folks who just have to get the gun, and buy and fill any and every part of the surface with a rail, scope, magazine, fuzzy bunny, and nuclear warhead they can fit on it. while some others buy a gun, upgrade a few parts, mainly changes for preference, and are done. thats not a money pit, thats choice.

its the same way with the higher end guns and their add-ons or upgrades can go. after spending $600 on a gun, that thing better not ever need a thing but a cleaning from me. but they make all sorts of things for it dont they?

so, depending on what you want....any gun can be a money pit.
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#45 User is offline   ghostinthewood 

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 06:58 PM

View PostMech CB, on Jan 30 2009, 05:16 PM, said:

yes, thats a good way to put it.

tippmann does make high-end markers as far as build quality goes, just not speed. the origional arguement that i was replying to is are speedball markers better than or equal to woodsball markers(tippmanns to be exact) in quality. some guys implied that all speedball markers are just as good if not better as long as you maintain them. properly maintaining your marker should be second nature to anyone with a gun, so i don't even consider that factor when talking about markers.

my point i was trying to get at is not all speedball markers are reliable. and the ones that are, tend to need a LOT of up keep. however, if he sticks with his tippmann, he will have a reliable marker without as much up keep. he could spend the money real quick on the ups he wants and then just maintain the marker from there.

Ha. FUnny, most people ocmplain about Tippmans quality nowadays. High end =/= quality. You can make some quality tin but it is not the high end aircraft metal. Speed is more of a factor in the woods since most people in the woods play in an uncapped format. That argument was good 5years ago(arguably last year) but not so much any more. Effciency, consistency (which is the same with most markers with a REGULATOR). I don't know where you were going with maintence. Are you agreeing a high end is better than a tippman? The reason people put emphasis on that fact is because a lot of people get in over their heads and blame the gun for their ignorance.

A lot of keep up is unscrewing the bolt/pulling a pin and sliding out the bolt...removing old grease/oil... and putting new oil/grease on while checking o rings in the process? Sure tippmans never need to be oiled and theyre a lot easier to check up on, but by the time you take one apart you could've already had a picky Matrix inspected and lubed. Hell, dont even get me start how ridiculous the Luxe is.... 3 seconds I believe is the take down record.

Quote

some people have tippmanns and they have never had an issue. some people have the "high end" stuff, and have never had an issue.

some people have had nothing but problems with either kind of gun.

i dont think a tippy is any more of a "money pit" than any other gun. its all in what you want to do to it, buy for it, or spend to use it.

yes, there are some folks who just have to get the gun, and buy and fill any and every part of the surface with a rail, scope, magazine, fuzzy bunny, and nuclear warhead they can fit on it. while some others buy a gun, upgrade a few parts, mainly changes for preference, and are done. thats not a money pit, thats choice.

its the same way with the higher end guns and their add-ons or upgrades can go. after spending $600 on a gun, that thing better not ever need a thing but a cleaning from me. but they make all sorts of things for it dont they?

so, depending on what you want....any gun can be a money pit.


Ok...They know their markers...

Ok...They dont...

To put it at the same level as a high end, you need to put money in it.

That is their choice, sure. I have no problem with that. This is a free country. However what marker is better out of the box with no upgrades? That is the better marker. Now if you like to put upgrades on it that is up to you but even with those upgrades there will still be things wrong with a tippman. The two biggest ones are weight/size and take down.

They do, and as I pointed out earlier, theyre mostly for (direct) comfort. An issue few people have brought up (Though I think Mech did...). PLease dont get direct comfort mixed up with preference. Just because you think a flashlight makes it look more legit or whatever doesnt mean its more comfortable. I am talking about electronics that are easy to use, a trigger than can be adjusted for how you shoot, or this and that. Which is more comfortable? For a lot of people that is a "real" feeling marker. It will perform like crap compared to other things more than likely but who cares? The person using it is using it to have fun so why not be comfortable. For the record I have nothing against stocks...They are comfortable for some people.

Some guns are predisposed to be money pits...thats the point...
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