Special Ops Paintball: A question of fairness... - Special Ops Paintball

Jump to content


  • (9 Pages)
  • +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • Last »
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

A question of fairness... Rate Topic: ****- 1 Votes

#16 User is offline   Flippy the Wonder Bunny 

  • My E-MAN PART is bigger than yours
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 2,984
  • Joined: 04-December 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Abilene, KS

Posted 20 November 2008 - 08:20 PM

View PostSteelHearted, on Nov 20 2008, 09:17 PM, said:

View Postghost93, on Nov 20 2008, 08:58 PM, said:

View PostSteelHearted, on Nov 20 2008, 08:56 PM, said:

Wow, this tournament makes me sad. I'm on a hybrid team and we shoot all types of markers, pump for speedball, egos for woods. It's just what we like and what we feel like at the time. Because they wanted a "WUDZBAL" team to win means they are being biased while running the tournament. This makes me sad and disgusted.

It does mean that they are being biased. They are trying to put a rule in place to hinder the speedball teams. How is that not biased?

Read closely I said that they are being biased.

My bad. I must have put some extra words in there. Being exhausted does that to you sometimes. Sorry about that.
0

#17 User is offline   Fenrisulfr 

  • They call me "Opsy."
  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 893
  • Joined: 17-May 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Colorado
  • Brigade Name:BlackOpsGhost

Posted 20 November 2008 - 08:24 PM

You do realise that these "speedball" guns originated from the woods right? The demand for a higher rate of fire in the old tourny speed caleld for the electro pnuematic design, which gave way to everything else we now have.

Simply put, don't put restrictions on guns simply becase the ones who weren't suppose to win won. No one's stopping anyone else from buying a PMR or G3 or Ion or whatever to keep up with whatever other guns that the "speedball" guys have brought to the table. You wouldn't be making the field fair. You'd be lowering what everyone else with a higher end electro can use to bring their firepower down to the level of the guy who was too concerned with having an MP5 with a grenade launcher than a functional marker.
BOG, that was the most annoying thing I have ever had to endure, and I once watched a whole Teletubbies episode. - Hobo
I don't have MAJOR problems. I have minor annoyances that YOU consider major problems.
WARNING: Extreme sarcasm ahead.
0

#18 User is offline   splntercell 

  • Sophomore Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 337
  • Joined: 03-April 07
  • Brigade Name:splntercell

Posted 20 November 2008 - 08:38 PM

This might be a little off topic but alot of speedball tourny's have bps caps. Does that make those tourny's biased against teams with good sponsors or the funds to buy top of the line markers that can shoot 20 + bps?
0

#19 User is offline   Thalion 

  • Probably in the Shooters Thread...
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 2,984
  • Joined: 22-January 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Twin Cities, MN

Posted 20 November 2008 - 08:42 PM

View Postsplntercell, on Nov 20 2008, 09:38 PM, said:

This might be a little off topic but alot of speedball tourny's have bps caps. Does that make those tourny's biased against teams with good sponsors or the funds to buy top of the line markers that can shoot 20 + bps?


No, they're setting a baseline maximum regardless of marker type.

The rules people are calling biased are targeting specific marker types and handicapping them. Gravity loaders are, what, 6-7 BPS? Maybe 10 if we're being generous. With an RT set up right, the A5 (a marker with no restrictions in this rule set) could hit 15 easy.

If the rules set a "X BPS maximum rate of fire" that was enforced across the board, there'd be no debate.
Member of Team Akkadian

0

#20 User is offline   splntercell 

  • Sophomore Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 337
  • Joined: 03-April 07
  • Brigade Name:splntercell

Posted 20 November 2008 - 08:57 PM

View PostThalion, on Nov 20 2008, 10:42 PM, said:

View Postsplntercell, on Nov 20 2008, 09:38 PM, said:

This might be a little off topic but alot of speedball tourny's have bps caps. Does that make those tourny's biased against teams with good sponsors or the funds to buy top of the line markers that can shoot 20 + bps?


No, they're setting a baseline maximum regardless of marker type.

The rules people are calling biased are targeting specific marker types and handicapping them. Gravity loaders are, what, 6-7 BPS? Maybe 10 if we're being generous. With an RT set up right, the A5 (a marker with no restrictions in this rule set) could hit 15 easy.

If the rules set a "X BPS maximum rate of fire" that was enforced across the board, there'd be no debate.


My first reply was to follow the sppl guidlines and limit electronic markers to certian loaders that could only feed a certian bps. A better solution would be to limit all markers to the same list of loaders. This would level the bps playing field to all the markers.
0

#21 User is offline   Gadget Soldier 

  • SoCal Event Poster
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 405
  • Joined: 12-December 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Southern California
  • Brigade Name:Gadget Soldier

Posted 20 November 2008 - 08:59 PM

Thanks everyone, I knew that posting this question here would stir up a debate. Thing is, the rules are not set in stone and may change at the next event seeing on how things will go in the upcoming event.

I should've been more correct in saying electros and mech markers but then again there the egrip for the Tippmann, does it fall under mech or electro?

I should point out that I am not the one running this event nor that I am affiliated other than I was chatting with the producer of this event and he wanted to see a way to make it fun, interesting and challenging without the overwhelming speed of the tourney players just mowing everyone down (please don't give me hate posts or PM's because of that remark lol :D ) The way that he is running it sounds almost like the SPPL but at a much abbreviated format that takes place in one day. Sure, he will probably take the advice in which to have the electros set with a capped bps like for the NPPL and PSP and maybe even considering limiting the amount of paint taken on the field per game. As far as I know, it's still a work in progress and the guy is open to suggestions.

*Edit* I think I actually ask him to read over the SPPL rules and use what rules they have in regards to the markers in which the suggestions I have made in the first post is pretty identical to it. Wouldn't you think?

This post has been edited by Gadget Soldier: 20 November 2008 - 09:07 PM

Posted Image
South Western Scenario Forum: http://www.paintball4all.com
Team Knuckle Draggerz proudly sponsored by:
Paintballphotography.com / Paintball Gateway Online Store / Tippmannparts.com / Pinokio Hoppers
0

#22 User is offline   Thalion 

  • Probably in the Shooters Thread...
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 2,984
  • Joined: 22-January 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Twin Cities, MN

Posted 20 November 2008 - 10:40 PM

View PostGadget Soldier, on Nov 20 2008, 09:59 PM, said:

Sure, he will probably take the advice in which to have the electros set with a capped bps like for the NPPL and PSP and maybe even considering limiting the amount of paint taken on the field per game. As far as I know, it's still a work in progress and the guy is open to suggestions.

*Edit* I think I actually ask him to read over the SPPL rules and use what rules they have in regards to the markers in which the suggestions I have made in the first post is pretty identical to it. Wouldn't you think?


I think that there two main ways to address your concerns without restricting any particular marker or type of marker:

Option 1. All markers have a maximum ROF limit set at the same rate OR

Option 2. All players may only take into the field X amount of paintballs per game (up to you what the limit is, I play an annual local tournament where the number is 10 paintballs, but it's also a pump tournament)

I'm not a huge fan of SPPL rules, but I'm not one for rocking the boat about it because I can see what they're trying to do and where they're coming from, even if I'm not sold on the rules mechanism for getting the result.
Member of Team Akkadian

0

#23 User is offline   Gadget Soldier 

  • SoCal Event Poster
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 405
  • Joined: 12-December 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Southern California
  • Brigade Name:Gadget Soldier

Posted 20 November 2008 - 10:49 PM

View PostThalion, on Nov 20 2008, 09:40 PM, said:

Option 1. All markers have a maximum ROF limit set at the same rate


In regards to your option 1 I have a question, with the electro markers, would you allow them to use a force fed hopper or have them switch to a gravity fed hopper like the SPPL?
Posted Image
South Western Scenario Forum: http://www.paintball4all.com
Team Knuckle Draggerz proudly sponsored by:
Paintballphotography.com / Paintball Gateway Online Store / Tippmannparts.com / Pinokio Hoppers
0

#24 User is offline   Lomarandil 

  • SPPL Junkie -- BlackLight Company
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 2,181
  • Joined: 18-August 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Pueblo / Golden, CO
  • Brigade Name:Lomarandil

Posted 20 November 2008 - 10:58 PM

It depends. We require the hopper checks because when you are reffing an SPPL event, it's easy to see with a glance if someone is compliant with the ROF cap. If they've got a pure mech marker or a allowed hopper, 99% of the time they're fine. That means you don't have to radarchrono every marker like they do at the large speedball events. Note that players are still penalized if they go over 15bps.. (say if the hopper speed spikes)

But if it's a smaller event, it may be worth a little extra effort to just check markers and let them use whatever hopper.

Another note: You'll find that there is really very little reason to go over 15bps. It doesn't make for any noticeable advantage, and means you'll burn more paint.

Lo

0

#25 User is offline   Zamamee 

  • something witty
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 652
  • Joined: 19-May 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Dakota
  • Brigade Name:Zamamee

Posted 20 November 2008 - 11:32 PM

I say limit everyone across the board to agitated hoppers at a max (ie, revvys). I don't care if you have a mech or an electro. There are RT'd guns that can easily hit over 15 bps, but yet, a semi-automatic electro isn't allowed to.

And I see an e-gripped mech as in the electronic class. Simply because its capabilities have gone above and beyond a simple mech.
0

#26 User is offline   ::SARGE:: 

  • ::SARGE::
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 169
  • Joined: 19-August 05
  • Location:Charleston, WV
  • Brigade Name:Sarge

Posted 23 November 2008 - 12:34 PM

I play with a Tiberius 8. I've gone against all markers at our local field. From some high ends with high ROF, or older mechs with a large volume of paint and decent ROF.

I have yet to let my limited paint/air restrict me.

So to simply say it, If a guy that plays pistol only doesnt have a problem with it, then no-body else should.

Its ultimately skill that it boils down to.
Posted Image
Posted Image
0

#27 User is offline   GhostFlanker 

  • Forum Member
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 105
  • Joined: 23-August 08

Posted 23 November 2008 - 12:43 PM

View Postbrymokidwonder, on Nov 20 2008, 07:11 PM, said:

i dont think the speedballers should have to use gravity hoppers but they should be on semi auto. i think it would be no fair for the speedballers if that happened. mil-sim markers can shoot just as fast as speedball guns.

Actually faster, search youtube for an RTed Mag.
0

#28 User is offline   SteelHearted 

  • Forum Member
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 212
  • Joined: 01-August 08

Posted 23 November 2008 - 03:42 PM

View Post::SARGE::, on Nov 23 2008, 01:34 PM, said:

I play with a Tiberius 8. I've gone against all markers at our local field. From some high ends with high ROF, or older mechs with a large volume of paint and decent ROF.

I have yet to let my limited paint/air restrict me.

So to simply say it, If a guy that plays pistol only doesnt have a problem with it, then no-body else should.

Its ultimately skill that it boils down to.

QFT
Same with stock class paintball guns. Just make everyone use the sppl hopper rules and everything would be fine.

------------------------------------------------------
Proudly sponsored by: St. Croix paintball Supply, Splattag, CC military surplus, WPN paintball.
0

#29 User is offline   .:scorpion:. 2.0 

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1,002
  • Joined: 10-May 06
  • Brigade Name:{scorpion}

Posted 23 November 2008 - 03:47 PM

Those rules are completly unfair, unless the give specific guidelines as to what makes a marker "mil-sim."
The PBForum

PBNation

Need Speedball help or gun help? Pm me.
0

#30 User is offline   Ethrealwolf 

  • If we must die, we will die. but we will never yield.
  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 938
  • Joined: 13-April 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fayetteville, NC
  • Brigade Name:HALOWOLF

Posted 23 November 2008 - 11:21 PM

I'd say set a firm BPS cap- like 15 or 13 or whatever, and enforce it. Straight up biased rules, like limiting electros to gravity hoppers only is kinda bogus, and There's too many workarounds in SPPL-type rules, for people looking for them.
We rode on the winds of the rising storm,
We ran to the sounds of the thunder.
We danced among the lightning bolts,
and tore the world asunder.

http://onpaintball.blogspot.com/
0

Share this topic:


  • (9 Pages)
  • +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • Last »
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users