Special Ops Paintball: A question of fairness... - Special Ops Paintball

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A question of fairness... Rate Topic: ****- 1 Votes

#1 User is offline   Gadget Soldier 

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 06:06 PM

Greetings fellow paintball players. I've been in contact with the gentleman that is running the Woodsball Tournament League here in Southern California. His philosophy is to bring the tournament scene back to it's "roots" from the woods.

It's a 7 player format, single elimination with the play lasting 7 minutes or until a team has been completely eliminated. The first event, I was told, was a complete sucess and will have another one coming up next February.

The biggest problem that they had was that the 1st and 2nd place winners were a speedball team. (3rd place were the Psycho Clown Posse) It seemed that those teams had the edge in high rate of fire and volume that the other teams probably did not possess.

The talk is how to level the playing field amonst the various markers that are out there:

1. All speedball guns will be on semi-auto and will use a gravity fed hopper

2. All mil-sim markers can use Response Trigger and E-grip (semi- only).

However, we all know that the BT TM-7 is out there (with it's mini invert internals) and can use a force feed hopper like a Halo or Reloader. I think that this one will have to use a gravity fed hopper also.

Do you all think that levels the playground for all the teams between the speedball teams and the scenario teams or should there be other items of note that should be addressed?

For more info, the WTL website is Woodsball Tournament League
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#2 User is offline   brymokidwonder 

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 06:11 PM

i dont think the speedballers should have to use gravity hoppers but they should be on semi auto. i think it would be no fair for the speedballers if that happened. mil-sim markers can shoot just as fast as speedball guns.
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#3 User is offline   splntercell 

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 06:26 PM

Check out the rules for the sppl they have some rules in there to balance the playing field between electro markers and mech markers. Mainly electronic markers are limited to certian brands and modles of loaders that can only feed upto a certain bps.
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#4 User is offline   Piller 

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 06:26 PM

If you really want to go back to roots have it be pump action or stock class. However, that kind of excludes a lot of people.

I would say just make everyone use a gravity hopper or if that is too restricting an agitated hopper. Then it doesn't matter what marker you use but your firepower is restricted.

Separating into mil-sim and speedball guns is kind of impossible to do. The TM-7 is only one of many exceptions to the two stereotypes of markers. It also doesn't account for markers that don't fit into either speedball or mil-sim. That includes Automags, Autocockers, older Tippmanns, Palmer's markers and countless others.
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#5 User is offline   Buckfrenzy 

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 06:32 PM

Dumb rule. You are effectively limiting the ROF cap for the "speedball" teams just because it bothers you that they beat you in the woods. I laughed every time some idiot would ramp off 18 bps at us in the SPPL with his A-5 thinking the ROF was going to scare us or something...
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#6 User is offline   Flippy the Wonder Bunny 

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 06:37 PM

How about a flat 15bps max ROF? Stopping people from using a better gun is dumb IMO. Why don't you just admit they won because they are a better team, and not because of their high ROF?

This post has been edited by ghost93: 20 November 2008 - 06:37 PM

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#7 User is offline   Incognito 

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 06:51 PM

If the speedballers are shooting fast, that's fine. If they are wiping, then it's not fine. If they have a higher ROF it should be okay as long as they don't ramp or go full auto or try to cheat.

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#8 User is offline   Thalion 

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 06:55 PM

The rules were plenty fair. If you can't deal with the ROF, learn how to.

There's no such thing as a "speedball gun" or "woodsball gun."

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The biggest problem that they had was that the 1st and 2nd place winners were a speedball team. (3rd place were the Psycho Clown Posse) It seemed that those teams had the edge in high rate of fire and volume that the other teams probably did not possess.


Why is this a problem? Who cares if a "speedball team" wins? If they obeyed the rules and within those rules won, they deserve it. Speedball or woodsball, it's really all the same game just played with a few different rules or terrain.

Don't complain because a team you didn't want to win managed to do so, because that's part of paintball.

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The biggest problem that they had was that the 1st and 2nd place winners were a speedball team. (3rd place were the Psycho Clown Posse) It seemed that those teams had the edge in high rate of fire and volume that the other teams probably did not possess.


ROF isn't everything. Angles, communication, and teamwork of sufficient skill and practice will trump any rate of fire advantage.

I didn't look at the rules, but I'd say just make it uncapped semi-auto or pump markers.
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#9 User is offline   light-u-up 

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 07:41 PM

2nd and 3rd "speedball teams" wasnt because of rate of fire. Its because they were better. rof doesnt make you better. You can shoot as much as you want, so they want to shoot more? So they want to win, they do what they have to.
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#10 User is offline   DVLCHLD 

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 07:54 PM

They won. Done. People shouldn't complain about playing against a high ROF. I use a low end BT with a stock mech trigger and I go up against much faster markers all the time. I love the challenge. If he just has to limit the ROF then I would do as suggested above and use the loaders to limit the ROF. Not sure where the Tippmann cyclone would fall into the mix. We've had a "speedball" team playing at my private woodsball field lately. The first few times they came out they owned us. They had never been in those woods in thier life but they walked over us like they grew up there. Once we learned thier playing style and tightened up our game things got ALOT more even. Thier team captain use to be pro and it shows. It VERY hard to eliminate him but when you do it feels great.
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#11 User is offline   SteelHearted 

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 07:56 PM

Wow, this tournament makes me sad. I'm on a hybrid team and we shoot all types of markers, pump for speedball, egos for woods. It's just what we like and what we feel like at the time. Because they wanted a "WUDZBAL" team to win means they are being biased while running the tournament. This makes me sad and disgusted.

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#12 User is offline   Flippy the Wonder Bunny 

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 07:58 PM

View PostSteelHearted, on Nov 20 2008, 08:56 PM, said:

Wow, this tournament makes me sad. I'm on a hybrid team and we shoot all types of markers, pump for speedball, egos for woods. It's just what we like and what we feel like at the time. Because they wanted a "WUDZBAL" team to win means they are being biased while running the tournament. This makes me sad and disgusted.

It does mean that they are being biased. They are trying to put a rule in place to hinder the speedball teams. How is that not biased?
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#13 User is offline   kook 

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 08:04 PM

....why dictate what players can use. One group has realized that firepower can give them an advantage and they take notice and use that advantage. The other group doesn't want to use firepower for the sake of looks, they're digging their own grave in terms of winning the game.
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#14 User is offline   SteelHearted 

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 08:17 PM

View Postghost93, on Nov 20 2008, 08:58 PM, said:

View PostSteelHearted, on Nov 20 2008, 08:56 PM, said:

Wow, this tournament makes me sad. I'm on a hybrid team and we shoot all types of markers, pump for speedball, egos for woods. It's just what we like and what we feel like at the time. Because they wanted a "WUDZBAL" team to win means they are being biased while running the tournament. This makes me sad and disgusted.

It does mean that they are being biased. They are trying to put a rule in place to hinder the speedball teams. How is that not biased?

Read closely I said that they are being biased.

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#15 User is offline   Zzaque 

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 08:19 PM

The other team did not win only because of their rate of fire. I'm sure it did intimidate some people and probably helped them a bit but it sounds to me like they also were better suited to the style of play. 7 minutes is a short game and many of the tactics that avid woodsballers use don't function as well with such tight time restrictions. A gun does not win a game, a player does (a team of players actually) Maybe adjust the time limits or something else that makes the game more like woodsball and less like "speedball in the woods".

My sister went paintballing with me once in a forested canyon field. We both had dinky rentals that we could not get to fire over 240 fps. Everyone else had gun set ups that were more expensive than their cars. They were firing ropes of paint while we were lucky to shoot 3 per second. We survived almost every game and racked up a good number of hits too. My sister was creeping up on an area when a big guy came through the bushes firing fully auto in her direction. Before he lined in his shot properly she popped him twice in the chest. He almost threw his gun on the ground right there when he saw he'd been shot by a 15 year old girl with a beat up rental on her first paintball excursion ever.

I kind of wandered from the topic but I hope you won't limit guns, because in all honesty I bet the speedball teams put a lot of practice and hard work in to winning that competition. Absolutely make it fair, but be sure to make it fair for everybody.
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