Special Ops Paintball: How did this weekend go???? - Special Ops Paintball

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How did this weekend go???? Rate Topic: ***** 1 Votes

#31 User is offline   Sean@Smartparts 

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Posted 16 October 2008 - 10:51 AM

View PostWaldo, on Oct 15 2008, 07:41 PM, said:

View PostSean@Smartparts, on Oct 15 2008, 04:30 PM, said:

Failure to Flatline - What can I say? You guys just friggin rock!! They got knocked out and they let us borrow their rocket launcher, which was cruicial in helping us win against Forest Demons in the finals. You guys were always there to help in anyway we needed and you guys have improved your play big time. I look forward to seeing you guys more nect year!


Sean i thought we let you use the launcher


FTF's was more accurate.. So Cilio borrowed theirs. I think we did take your as back tho. Thanks for letting us borrow it as well :)
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#32 User is offline   BigJeeezy 

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Posted 16 October 2008 - 12:28 PM

I do not usually post on the forums because I usually do not have much to say that I have not already said in person, but I feel that I must in this situation.

What happened this past weekend with our player Skip was unfortunate, but even more unfortunate is that people who saw the end of a horrible situation will get on a forum and blast the person or people involved without knowing what trully went down. I will give you my side of the story as well as Skip's, whom I spoke with both at the time and again today after I saw all of the posts regarding his behavior at the finals.

How did it all begin and how did it get so escalated that is easy to explain. Skip was inside the swing base on the APE field, I was out front behind a bunker snapping with a player on the opposite side of the wall from Skip. I was pretty sure that I hit the player, a ref came in to check him then another. The conversation Skip heard through the wall went something along the lines of, player is that an old hit...yes it is...ref called back to dead box to ask...ref in dead box said it was...player is clean. Now Skip knew that atleast in our deadbox we couldn't mark hits because the board was too wet to write on and had been for the last few games, so he felt that something was up. Skip came out of the backside of the swing and wrapped it to try and shoot out the player which he did and at the same time he got shot as well...1 for 1 right...nope Curtis stepped in and called the player clean and said the Skip blind fired. Skip said under his breath, 'That was a ***** call', Curtis asked him what he said and THIS IS WHERE SKIP MESSED UP, he repeated his statement to Curtis. Curtis told him to give him his players card, so Skip started to pull it out and in the process pulled his own mask off Curtis told him in a stern voice to put his mask back on so Skip yanked his players card off his mask and threw it on the ground and told Curtis in not such a nice way to pick it up himself. Curtis told Skip to leave the field which Skip started to do and THIS IS WHERE CURTIS MESSED UP, Curtis grabed Skip by the shoulder to escort Skip off the field. Skip told Curtis to keep his ***** hands off of him that he was not a kid and knew where the exit was to the field. Curtis followed Skip off the field and again grabbed Skip by the shoulder at this point Skip blew his top, which consequently is what everyone saw including myself. Curtis informed me and the deadbox ref of the penalty then turned to Skip again who was putting his gear in the back of his 4-wheeler trailer and told him to leave the feild again. Skip told him in a flurry of cuss words that he was leaving and that if Curtis ever put his hands on him again He would beat his Fat ***, all the whie bowing up his chest and pumping his fists...then Skip walked off the field.

Now how did he continue to play, which I have no problem letting you know he did through the rest of the tournament. I went up to get Skip's players card back since he felt he paid for it it was his to keep whether he was playing or not, or to get back his money for the card either one did not matter to me or Skip. This is when I was informed that Skip had to leave the event by Dan from APE. I told Dan if he goes we all go. Skip walked up we all talked about what happened. Dan said that Curtis' version was different, Skip said then let's go talk to Curtis right now. Dan said not a good idea because Curtis' was hot and needed to calm down. Curtis was not only hot at Skip, but hot at other teams for questioning his decisions. This is when I said so you have a PERTURBED off ref who just kicked my player out of an event after twice putting his hands on him when being asked not to. Dan agreed that maybe Skip had been the straw that broke the camel's back and Skip agreed that he should not have acted the way he did and apologized to Dan for his reactions. The problem was resolved enough to say that both the ref and the player overreacted, both did something they shouldn't have, but neither of them should be told to leave the game or the event.

Now here is what I have to say about all of it. Skip shouldn't have lost his temper, but if a referee put his hands on me I cannot honestly say that I would have responded in any other manner. Skip has been actively involved in 2 sportsmanship awards, gave his part of our prize package away to the 4th place rookie team in TN without hesitation, Oh and by the way while he was supposed to getting ready for the game in which he got ejected from he was fixing one of the compressors that was supplying air for the event. Did he do something that should have gotten him ejected from the game sure, but in my opinion he was somewhat provoked into his actions.

As for the comments regarding Skip being ejected from the league, you do not have to worry about that, and I speak for the Masters team alone, we will not play in the SPPL going forward. I am not going to list the many reasons for this as I think that they are painfully obvious and have been mentioned not only on this forum, but on others as well. We have had a great time playing with most of the teams in the SPPL, as well as hanging out with them. Look forward to running into you guys at other venues. Congratulations to all those who played, placed and won. Thanks Billy for an outstanding venue to have the finals and to all of the staff that made most of it go over well.
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#33 User is offline   Lomarandil 

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Posted 16 October 2008 - 12:58 PM

While I maintain a high level of respect for GTF and BigJeezy, I feel obliged to state that this narrative of events does not match up with what I saw and heard at the time of the incident.

I'm sorry to hear this incident has driven you from the league.

Lo

This post has been edited by Lomarandil: 16 October 2008 - 01:00 PM


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#34 User is offline   BigJeeezy 

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Posted 16 October 2008 - 02:29 PM

View PostLomarandil, on Oct 16 2008, 03:58 PM, said:

While I maintain a high level of respect for GTF and BigJeezy, I feel obliged to state that this narrative of events does not match up with what I saw and heard at the time of the incident.

I'm sorry to hear this incident has driven you from the league.

Lo



Then share what you did see and hear, because I have to take my player and friend of 3 years at his word until someone proves to me that he is lying. Also, this incident has absolutely no bearing on us leaving the league. I am not going to state our reasons for leaving unless directly asked by someone and at that point will do it privately not on an open public forum for everyone to see.
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#35 User is offline   pbman67 

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Posted 16 October 2008 - 02:50 PM

View PostBigJeeezy, on Oct 16 2008, 02:29 PM, said:

View PostLomarandil, on Oct 16 2008, 03:58 PM, said:

While I maintain a high level of respect for GTF and BigJeezy, I feel obliged to state that this narrative of events does not match up with what I saw and heard at the time of the incident.

I'm sorry to hear this incident has driven you from the league.

Lo



Then share what you did see and hear, because I have to take my player and friend of 3 years at his word until someone proves to me that he is lying. Also, this incident has absolutely no bearing on us leaving the league. I am not going to state our reasons for leaving unless directly asked by someone and at that point will do it privately not on an open public forum for everyone to see.


The only problem I had this weekend is with a couple teams that werent there to have a good time and they did their best to ruin it for other people. GTF was one of those teams. I am only calling it the way I saw it. You complained nonstop at the event from the regristration booth to the prizes to the ref calls to the refs. Then you try to justify it on the forum. No excuses move on. We dont want you in this league. The league will be much better and stronger without you.
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#36 Guest_PaleRider_*

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Posted 16 October 2008 - 03:21 PM

Lomarandil said:

date='Oct 16 2008, 01:58 PM' post='2207809']
While I maintain a high level of respect for GTF and BigJeezy, I feel obliged to state that this narrative of events does not match up with what I saw and heard at the time of the incident.
I'm sorry to hear this incident has driven you from the league.
Lo


Gota go with Lo on this one.

Quote

but even more unfortunate is that people who saw the end of a horrible situation will get on a forum and blast the person or people involved without knowing what trully went down. .


Yet you will do the very same thing to me. So here we go with the he said she said thing.

I was not even involved in the call at the swing base. Could not have made the call, as I was 100+- feet away at the time watching another player. What got my attention was when Skip came out of the carpet fort kicking rocks and swearing like a long shoreman on a 3-day binge.

I hobbled over to him to assess the penalty and asked for his name, he swore again, I asked for his name and player card, he then sore at me directly calling me M-Fing B****. after another round of swear words, He then took off his player card and threw it in the opposite direction, in the process of pulling his card off, he also took off his mask; I asked him to put it on, again more words and threats. At that point he was so upset he became a real safety concern. I asked him to put his mask back on he again swore at me. I asked him to leave the field.

One of the other refs retrieved his card and brought it to me. I fell in behind him as we walked back to dead box. If anyone noticed this weekend I have a limp when I walk, and on the way back I was walking behind him, I stumbled on a rock or branch and bumped into his arm, tired to explaine what happend , but he exploded and told me if I ever laid a hand on him he would Fíing kill me. At that point I had little choice but to ejected him from the event.

By the time we got back to the dead box he was totally out of his mind with rage. He dared me to throw a punch, he pumped faked a like he was going to throw one to provoke me; he called me every foul name in the book. I asked him several times to leave the field, he would not comply. I tried again but, He simply would not leave the field. Finally I called into the dead box and asked for the team caption to remove him from the field. I had to get back to the game and left.

My concern was to get him of the field for his own safety and for those around him. I let him know he was being give 50 points in penalties then I recorded three language and two unsportsmanlike conduct penalties against GTF and made note he had been ejected on the score sheet.

I was up set and talking in a loud voice ( I have a loud voice), never was I out of control. Never did I lay a hand on him or provoked him. I had no reason too; He could have just taken the swearing penalty and walked away, or better yet just walked off after the being called out without swearing. But instead he chose to verbally attack a referee and then make physical threats. Frankly I am grateful I was there, if it had been one of the younger members of my crew he may have actually assaulted them.

You can white wash this any way you want too. You can blame his action on me if you want too. But the fact off the matter is he lost it on the field. He chose his words and his actions. The really sad thing....he was allowed to continue to play. (heavy sigh)


A player has no right to act like that regardless of the call. The rules are there to protect the players and the referees. As referees we canít have players making physical threats against us, we canít be on the field concerned we might take one in the back of the head or neck at point blank range because some player didnít like a call we made.

This post has been edited by PaleRider: 16 October 2008 - 04:13 PM

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#37 User is offline   hatchet man 

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Posted 16 October 2008 - 03:37 PM

like i said... best ref the sppl has. amen Curtis.
with me there is no he said she said. i saw the whole thing go down, and what you just explained is exactly what i saw.
you being such a large individual, and him acting like he was gonna hit you. im really quit surprised you didnt react differently. kudos to you again for outstanding self control.
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Posted 16 October 2008 - 03:40 PM

Thank you for responding Curtis!

For what it's worth, my opinion of Curtis is extremely high. His integrity is beyond reproach as far as those of us that know him and his word is gold in my book. People can think that's unfair or close-minded but I have seen Curtis time and time again make the tough call when many others would have copped out and made the popular call. I've seen Curtis show restraint and professionalism in the face of hostility and aggression. If I were in the middle of a high level competitive event such as the SPPL, there isn't anyone I'd rather have as the head ref on the field...because win or lose...perfect or imperfect...I would know without any doubt that the game would be called fair and square right down the line.

Anyone that thinks any differently honestly just doesn't know Curtis and the level of honor and integrity that the man possesses.
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#39 User is offline   Darrickws 

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Posted 16 October 2008 - 03:44 PM

Quote

I hobbled over to him to assess the penalty and asked for his name, he swore again, I asked for his name and player card, he then sore at me directly calling me M-Fing B****. after another round of swear words, He then took off his player card and threw it in the opposite direction, in the process of pulling his card off, he also took off his mask; I asked him to put it on, again more words and threats. At that point he was so upset he became a real safety concern. I asked him to put his mask back on he again swore at me. I asked him to leave the field.

One of the other refs retrieved his card and brought it to me. I fell in behind him as we walked back to dead box. If anyone noticed this weekend I have a limp when I walk, and on the way back I was walking behind him, I stumbled on a rock or branch and bumped into his arm, tired to explaine what happend , but he exploded and told me if I ever laid a hand on him he would Fíing kill me. At that point I had little choice but to ejected him from the event.

By the time we got back to the dead box he was totally out of his mind with rage. He dared me to throw a punch, he pumped faked a like he was going to throw one to provoke me; he called me every foul name in the book. I asked him several times to leave the field, he would not comply. I tried again but, He simply would not leave the field. Finally I called into the dead box and asked for the team caption to remove him from the field. I had to get back to the game and left.

My concern was to get him of the field for his own safety and for those around him. I let him know he was being give 50 points in penalties then I recored three language and two unsportsmanlike conduct penalties and made note he had been ejected on the score sheet.

I was up set and talking in a loud voice ( I have a loud voice), never was I out of control. Never did I lay a hand on him or provoked him. I had no reason too; He could have just taken the swearing penalty and walked away, or better yet just walked off after the being called out without swearing. But instead he chose to verbally attack a referee and then make physical threats. Frankly I am grateful I was there, if it had been one of the younger members of my crew he may have actually assaulted them.

You can white wash this any way you want to. You can blame his action on me if you want too. But the fact off the matter is he lost it on the field. He chose his words and actions. And the sad thing is he continued to play.

A player has no right to act like that regardless of the call. The rules are there to protect the players and the referees. As referees we canít have players making physical threats against us, we canít be on the field concerned we might take one in the back of the head or neck at point blank range because some player didnít like a call we made.


No offense, but got to go with Curtis on this one. Unless you have a old beef with him, why would he make this up? Those on the sideline said Skip called him and M-F'er more than 3 times. 2 also heard him say he would kill him if he touched him again. Do you really think Curtis would try to provoke him? I think it was a rection to a call, with a player who went way beyond the line. When I went to sign the card and was told the score, I asked Curtis what was up with the penalties. His recall of the game minutes afterwards are the same now as they are now. He stated you guys played a hell of a game, but the actions of 1 player cost you 50 points. I sure hate to see you guys leave the league. It was 2 awesome games...and you guys showed real class in and after the games. I know you are frriends with Skip, but deep down you have to know he was way out of line. Good calls and bad calls happen in almost every game. You must admit these refs were the best we have ever had. Curtis had no reason to penalize Skip for nothing. Curtis is a SPPL player as well as a ref, and never showed any bias.

I sure hope you rethink leaving the league...it was a great game to play against you.

Darrick
Forest Demons Masters

This post has been edited by Krazy8: 17 October 2008 - 12:23 PM
Reason for edit: tag repair

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#40 User is offline   Demon Dan 

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Posted 16 October 2008 - 05:51 PM

I have a little experience in refs and head refs. Curtis is absolutely the best head/ultimate ref I have ever met (I have met a few). I dont know how many people could have kept their cool in a situation such as this. Kudos to you Curtis!

And by the way Jayson, cause I know you are reading this. You absolutely have to back your head ref. That guy should have been long gone. I know you had a lot to deal with, but the whole reason I play the SPPL is because of the people. A guy like that going off should not be tolerated.

Dan Bonebrake
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#41 User is offline   Jester13 

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Posted 16 October 2008 - 07:12 PM

View PostDemon Dan, on Oct 16 2008, 07:51 PM, said:

I have a little experience in refs and head refs. Curtis is absolutely the best head/ultimate ref I have ever met (I have met a few). I dont know how many people could have kept their cool in a situation such as this. Kudos to you Curtis!

And by the way Jayson, cause I know you are reading this. You absolutely have to back your head ref. That guy should have been long gone. I know you had a lot to deal with, but the whole reason I play the SPPL is because of the people. A guy like that going off should not be tolerated.

Dan Bonebrake

Exactly you can have the best refs in the world but if you do not stand behind them and their decisions you might as well have no refs out there. Because by not backing them up you just stripped them of all creditability. I also saw the event in question and i applaud Curtis on his restraint and keeping his composure. I look forward to our next game be it with you reffing or playing.
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#42 User is offline   FOZ 

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Posted 16 October 2008 - 07:24 PM

i'd even go as far as to say only a 50 point penatly was very generous!!!
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#43 User is offline   Acara 

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Posted 17 October 2008 - 03:33 AM

View PostDarrickws, on Oct 15 2008, 09:22 PM, said:

We were really looking forward to playing you guys in the finals, cause we had not played you. We heard you were a great team and we looked forward to the challenge. I look forward to playing you guys next year.


Darrick
Forest Demons


Thanks Darrick, Hopefully we'll get another chance to meet up & sling some paint at a future event.

Curt
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#44 User is offline   Schloob 

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Posted 17 October 2008 - 08:21 AM

View PostFOZ, on Oct 15 2008, 08:12 AM, said:

View PostSchloob, on Oct 14 2008, 05:49 PM, said:

I would like to thank everyone that attended. I hope you all had a great time. We really tired to put on the best SPPL event ever. As some of you noted there will always be things that need to be fixed or improved upon and we will work to correct those. Although I would like to keep this upbeat I would like to mention that no calls where ever over turned. There were times where calls were made differently from field to field and for that some work still needs to be done to ensure that doesn't happen in the future.



How can you honestly say that? I know for fact that curtis had NO say in the 10 points you gave GTF back and he was the head ref. So basically you took the word of GTF and one of their local ballers (who was a field ref on that field and they knew previously) and magically awarded them another 10 points (without curtis knowing)! Can't wait to hear your reply!!!!!


Actually Curtis did have a say in me giving the points back. Here is the situation for everyone to know. GTF Was playing Forest Demons. There was an out of bounds penalty assessed to GTF. And Curtis put the name of the player on the score sheet next to the penalty. When GTF came up to the SPPL tent to go over the score one more time they said, "hey we didn't go out of bounds" to which I replied "well, I have the guys name right here. It's Miley or something" GTF replied by saying they didn't have a player on their team by that name. So I asked for Demons if they had a player by that name on there them and they said said yes. I then radio'd Curtis and asked him about it. To which he replied if I got the guys name and he's on the other team then I wrote it down wrong. So I did adjust that score.

That is not over turning a call because I didn't. Forest Demons was assessed the penalty. But I did correct the score because it was calculated wrong and GTF was penalized for a someone else penalty.
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#45 User is offline   Schloob 

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Posted 17 October 2008 - 08:35 AM

View Posthatchet man, on Oct 15 2008, 03:05 PM, said:

View PostSchloob, on Oct 14 2008, 02:49 PM, said:

I would like to thank everyone that attended. I hope you all had a great time. We really tired to put on the best SPPL event ever. As some of you noted there will always be things that need to be fixed or improved upon and we will work to correct those. Although I would like to keep this upbeat I would like to mention that no calls where ever over turned. There were times where calls were made differently from field to field and for that some work still needs to be done to ensure that doesn't happen in the future.



no calls over turned huh?? well, im going to have to call shenanigans on that. maybe this particular call wasn't over turned by you but defiantly by some one relatively high up in your staff, atleast higher then Curtis. the reason i say that is cuz, while chronoing my gun before a game, i happen to be standing next to a GTF game. who they where playing, i do not know. anyways. while i was there. a player named Skip told Curtis " i aint no boy" while taking off his gear, as if he were challenging him to fight. Curtis told Skip's team mate that he could no longer play in the event. at that point Skip then told Curtis "F**k you fat boy. i'll kick your F**king butt" then flinched at hit like he was going to hit him. at this time Curtis then told him that he would have to leave the LCP facility and that GTF would have to play a man down for the remainder of the entire tournament.. not the match, but the tournament.. Skip was dragged off the field by his team mate the, in while doing so he was yelling curse words and threatening Curtis and other refs. i also challenge anyone who doubts my story to ask any member of XF. cuz half there team whitenessed all this too, as they were staging to play that field next.
i could not believe what i was seeing. ive been to lots of events, and i had never seen anyone take such a position against a ref. i thought surely. this cat was outta here, but much to my dismay. i seen Skip getting air, and gearing up for the finals games, and when i watched GTF play XF in the battle for 2nd place. iill be d*mn*d if GTF didnt have 10 players on this field, and ill even do you one better.. Skip was one of them. at that moment, i was ashamed to be part of this league. i had posed the question to myself. "why in the h*ll do any of us work so on sportsmanship,and staying calm, and playing stand up, fair paintball. only to have another player, whos team consequently won second place, act this way with NO repercussions. what happened to ill side with my refs., or my refs word will always stand. mind you, we arent talking about a 1st year ref either. this is Curtis. your best ref in my opinion. and who cares what call was made on the field. who cares what penalties he might have took during the game. when we was escorted off the field, and then threatening a head ref with physical violence. that my friends is a whole new set of downs. forget what happened on the field. that by itself is enough to have any player in this league banned from the SPPL for ever. so why did that not happen? why was skip allowed to play? who over turned Curtis's decision to kick him out and them play a man down?
i hate to call a guy out, but it did happen, and at some point everyone has to take accountability for their own actions, and if not the player. surely their capt. must. if i was the GTF capt., considering all that had occurred, i would be to guilt stricken to even continuing to play, let alone have won second place. i would have expect some one to come up to me and say "sir. you took second place from teams who were way more deserving, teams who had not incurred a single penalty. instead you won with player/ s who have a p*ss poor attitude. this entire league is supposed to be based on sportsmanship and fair play, and you sir. by allowing a player of that caliber to continue on your team leaves you with neither"
Jason.. these are your rules. set in place and enforced by your people. if they are to stand in the rule books, then they must apply to all of us, and in this situation it was very clear to me that the rules did not apply to GTF and defiantly not to Skip.



You are 100% correct on this one. And this is the only call on the field that was over turned to both Curtis's and my frustration. Here's the short of what happened. Curtis ejected a player from the event. I don't care to get into the details because it doesn't matter. Curtis felt he needed to eject the player and I support him on that. In fact, Curtis called me after the fact and said he did as much. Done end of story. Unfortunately and as you accurately described someone else on my staff got pulled into a discussion with the offending team and felt that everyone had lost their cool in the heat of the moment and felt the player should be allowed to play again. Unfortunately , Curtis and I didn't realize what happened until the player was back on the field.

I talked to the member of my staff about this and let him know the decision to do this was wrong and undermined everything we tired to do. So in this case, your right that call was over turned. The player never should have been able to take the field again.

Unfortunately, I have to take full responsibility for what happened since these guys work for me. The call never should have been overturned. As I said, I talked with the member of my staff who did that and let him not that we can't overturn calls on the field regardless of our personally opinion of the situation. I am sorry it happened and It won't happen again.
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