Special Ops Paintball: ATF approved my silencer - Special Ops Paintball

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ATF approved my silencer Rate Topic: -----

#61 User is offline   RowanPaintball 

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Posted 07 October 2008 - 06:17 PM

That is a big part of it. The problem is that most markers are built to allow the barrels to be removed. If you had a marker that the barrel could not be removed, and the silencer material could not be removed from the barrel without completely destroying the silencer components, then in theory it could be considered legal. But most attempts at this have been shot down by the ATF showing proof that you could destroy the marker and salvage the silencer component of it, thus making it illegal to have.

Example, you glue the isulation to the barrel. Well, if the barrel can be removed, either by unscrewing it, or taking a hack saw to it, you now have a silencer that could be used on a regular firearm. That is why none of the marker manufactures are producing silenced markers.
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#62 User is offline   Eskimo 

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Posted 07 October 2008 - 06:38 PM

im going to do what tenacious did to mauradur Pilot awhile back.
taking your same post

View PostRowanPaintball, on Oct 7 2008, 05:07 PM, said:

1. Water bottles is legal
2. Paintball marker is not classed as a firearm (ATF wise)
3. Placing the bottle on the barrel of the paintball marker shows intent to reduce the noise report
4. Since this item can then be removed from the paintball marker according to the ATF that constituts making of a "silencer" or "mufler" that could be used to reduce the report of a firearm.
5. Having placed the bottle on the marker he showed intent to use it to reduce the report, and then having the ability to remove it he could use it on a regulated firearm, he is now if federal violation of the ATF regulations and could be charged with a felony.

Also, the ATF allows silencers (with the proper legal process being followed) however many states have there own regulations against them. So, if Illusion lives in a state, county, or city with its own regulations against silencers then he doesnt just have to worry about the ATF, he also has to be sure that he is not in violation of the local laws pertaining to this issue. Either way you look at it, ATF or Local, he could get in alot of trouble and he will be on his own against a very large legal system.


you could take any item and do that. these are common household items. water bottles pipe insulation. hell you could use anything come to think of it. plastic cups with holes drilled into them. pipeing itself. paper. anything.
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#63 User is offline   RowanPaintball 

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Posted 07 October 2008 - 07:09 PM

Corect. It is the use of any thing with the intent to reduce the noise level that is the issue. If it works, if the dB is reduced, then it is a sound mufler, silencer, or supresor. Keep in mind, these laws were not writen to block paint ball players, they were writen to counter the criminal elements.
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#64 User is offline   M.O.P. 

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Posted 07 October 2008 - 07:32 PM

Sorry to burst some bubbles but "silencers" do not muffle the report of a firearm, they make its sound signature change.
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#65 User is offline   Warpaint 

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Posted 07 October 2008 - 07:46 PM

View Posthoodtrix, on Oct 5 2008, 07:01 PM, said:

View PostWarpaint, on Oct 5 2008, 10:10 AM, said:

...Anyone considering constructing their own suppressors would be wise to read up on both Federal and local firearms laws BEFORE fabrication, purchase, and/or use. While the original poster may live in an area that allows what he claims is a suppressor, there are several states that specifically prohibit such devices. The penalties are significant, and in the post 9/11 ~ zero tolerance world we live in, ignorance of the law is only going to be another nail in your coffin...be careful.

not to cause a flame war but people got to get over it. as for the law, it doesnt apply here its been stated time and time again a silancer is only one if its made for and can be made into something a firearm can use. PAINTBALL MARKERS ARE NOT FIREARMS. its realy that simple ppl
thank you ill ill look into it




Clearly, paintball markers are not firearms. Also, it is not paintball markers which are being scrutinized, but suppressive devices.

It's not so much that your fabrication is an approved suppressor, so much as that it doesn't satisfy ATF criteria qualifying it as a firearm suppressor. In their opinion, it is not a suppressive device by the firearm standards within their jurisdiction. If it was "approved" as a suppressor, you would have been required to properly register the device, pay the "tax", and allow random inspection of the site where the suppressor was registered. If you were not of legal status to own a suppressive device, it could have been confiscated, and you may have been investigated.

The device you presented for analysis may have had some suppressive qualities, particularly on a paintball marker, but according to the analysis reported did not satisfy enough of the criteria to be qualified as a firearm suppressor. Basically, you came in under the radar.

This post has been edited by Warpaint: 07 October 2008 - 07:58 PM

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#66 User is offline   druid 

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Posted 07 October 2008 - 09:33 PM

all of your arguments are moot really.

1. the paintball marker is not a firearm under the ATF's definitions.
2. The sleeve is common insulation NOT containing the inner ported tube, baffling material or outer tube...which are the defining parts of a true silencer.
3. Putting this sleeve on the barrel of a marker that is NOT considered a firearm is LEGAL according to the ATF's own definitions.

Putting this on a firearm WOULD make it illegal.
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#67 User is offline   Illusion 

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Posted 07 October 2008 - 09:41 PM

I agree with Warpaint.

Since I live in a state that doesnít allow silencers licensed or otherwise, if I wanted to diminish the report from my marker I needed to have the ATF say that what I used wasnít a silencer according to their definition. And they definitely did that.

Another poster questioned what I sent to the ATF, I sent a piece of pipe insulation 18 inches long. I made no modifications to it at all. None are needed either. The fact that I can put it on my marker doesnít nave any affect on whether it can be used on a firearm. By that standard anyone in possession of pipe insulation who also owns a firearm could then be charged with a crime. Actually you wouldnít even have to own a gun. I raised this issue in the letter I sent along with the pipe insulation. The final paragraph from the ATF is pointing out that if I did put it on a firearm, which I will not do, then in that context it would be a silencer. They had to address that issue since I raised it in the first place.

I also addressed the issue of painting it, because obviously white isnít the ideal color for any of your equipment in woods ball. They didnít address the paint issue. Therefore painting it could be open to debate and may possibly be illegal. Itís my belief (and not the stated position of the ATF) that since the insulation isnít a silencer, the ATF doesnít care if I paint it or not. Painting it doesnít make it any more or less suitable for use in silencing a portable firearm. If it did anyone who is in possession of a piece of painted pipe insulation would be in violation of the law. It all boils down to intent, which is the point I stressed in my submittal letter. As long as I donít intend to install it on a portable firearm itís ok.

The issue raised about a potato with a hole in it shows intent and constitutes a ďmakingĒ because you had to drill the hole in it, same with a pop bottle. I canít stress this enough NOTHING was done to modify the pipe insulation.

By the way I'm neutral about the dot :angry:

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#68 User is offline   Illusion 

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Posted 07 October 2008 - 09:49 PM

View PostM.O.P., on Oct 7 2008, 09:32 PM, said:

Sorry to burst some bubbles but "silencers" do not muffle the report of a firearm, they make its sound signature change.


This is in agreement with what my testing showed.
It acts like a mechanical low pass filter, It provides a significant reduction of the high frequency component of the report, but allowed for a smaller increase at lower frequencies.

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#69 User is offline   Niceguy74 

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Posted 07 October 2008 - 10:48 PM

I like dots. ..........

this is one killer debate. Illusion...kudos sir!

all of the dB talk is driving me crazy, reminds me of work (I am a Comm Tech by trade), so I wont go into the whole math run, but 3 dB can be equaled to a "doubling of power". so if there is a 3 dB drop in the sound output, it could be said that it reduces the sound-power of the Paintball gun by HALF. that half being a ratio of the Decibel's power, it may not reduce the SOUND by a FULL HALF, but the actual power of the sound, its ability to travel through the air at speed and distance. after all, part of the Decibel measurement is how FAR and FAST the sound will travel. it changes or disrupts certain frequencies more than others when fired, reducing their effect.
all of this also depends on how loud the gun is in dB without it, as all guns sound different and louder/quieter. that works for me, any and all confusion i could add to keep my arse from getting shot will help!

how much it drops the sound is IRRELEVANT! he has a letter that gives us a starting point. a LEGAL one at that.

i think the ATF shuns an actual company or manufacturer from making a "muffler or silencer" for a paintball gun because of the mass production and what it could lead to as the evil scum of the earth taking those products, made for paintballin' fun, and using them on real guns. thinking along the lines of availability and perfection of design, size, threading, etc....

the simple way to look at it is like this: some dude used a potato to silence a gun. ARE POTATOES NOW ILLEGAL?

if so............i better go hide. i just ate curly fries. ima huge criminal type ya know.

tomorrow i will break the law and have a whole baked potato!

>>>> . <<<< DOT AGAIN.
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#70 User is offline   RowanPaintball 

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 05:41 AM

Illusion, would you be willing to send another sample to the ATF with an extra paintball barrel? Get a spare paintball barrel, and put the insulation on it as you intend to use it. Send that into the ATF, if they say it is legal then the debate will end.
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#71 User is offline   slinkyaroo 

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 05:44 AM

Illusion - that piping is just placed on your marker? Nothing secures it on or keeps it from falling off? It's not modded to stay on the marker?

If "no" then I would say it's legal or not considered a "firearm silencer" as per ATF. Local laws and other state/federal definitions aside.



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#72 User is offline   hoodtrix 

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 08:12 AM

why cant you see the DOT. look its right here

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?...imageID=5902429
and incase you all dont have myspace heres another one HERE
Posted Image
STOP THE CONSPEARINCY THE DOT IS OUT IN THE OPEN.

please slink double check all your post all dots apear right above the ----------

This post has been edited by hoodtrix: 08 October 2008 - 08:49 AM

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#73 User is offline   LoopyDood 

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 11:45 AM

Placing pipe insulation over a water pipe shows intent to silence or muffle a NON firearm, so why should it be any different with a paintball marker? (Assuming you can easily remove it.)

This post has been edited by LoopyDood: 08 October 2008 - 11:52 AM

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#74 User is offline   slinkyaroo 

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 12:08 PM

Loopy - I don't think ATF cares about PB. They don't want somebody making something that can be readily adapted for a fire arm.

edit: hoodtrix here. You night want to clean the smudges on your screen.

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This post has been edited by slinkyaroo: 08 October 2008 - 12:12 PM

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#75 User is offline   Eskimo 

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 12:24 PM

View Postslinkyaroo, on Oct 8 2008, 12:08 PM, said:

Loopy - I don't think ATF cares about PB. They don't want somebody making something that can be readily adapted for a fire arm.

edit: hoodtrix here. You night want to clean the smudges on your screen.

Posted Image


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Stop it slinky. your going to drive him insane. ;)

anywho. back on post number whatever

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druid Posted Yesterday, 09:33 PM
all of your arguments are moot really.

1. the paintball marker is not a firearm under the ATF's definitions.
2. The sleeve is common insulation NOT containing the inner ported tube, baffling material or outer tube...which are the defining parts of a true silencer.
3. Putting this sleeve on the barrel of a marker that is NOT considered a firearm is LEGAL according to the ATF's own definitions.

Putting this on a firearm WOULD make it illegal


this is the end of this. The point is. putting it on a paintball marker is legal. But if illusion puts this over top a Real Fire arm. AFT will be bashing down his door in notime.
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