Special Ops Paintball: The SPPL from a veteran competitor. - Special Ops Paintball

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The SPPL from a veteran competitor. Warning...very long post. Rate Topic: *---- 1 Votes

#31 User is offline   secure 

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Posted 23 July 2008 - 03:07 PM

Oops.. Murph must have logged in on my computer and i didn't realize it.. Bad Murph! lol
So the above was written by myself, not Murph.

and on a side note, I was player A in both the above scenarios.. The first one was against Failure to Flatline, the second against The Heretics. This was one of the best SPPL experiences I've had, playing in Illinois. The teams did their part, the refs did their part, and it worked. More than once, I eliminated a player, or got eliminated down by swing, and was being congratulated or doing the congratulating on good shots. Heck, I had a Heretics player apologize for shooting me when he thought he'd hit me too many times! (to me, 2 hits don't really warrant that, but hey, we threw a LOT of paint at each other..lol) THAT's what we need more of, just as I said above. :dodgy:

End of babbling.
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#32 User is offline   ThirdI 

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Posted 23 July 2008 - 03:38 PM

It would be great to have all the players on the field be honorable enough to police themselves on hits etc. and not have to worry about playing on etc. Unfortunately, with the mentality out there right now, this just isn't going to happen. There's always going to be at least one team at each Regional (2-team Cali being the exception) that's going to play their games with the strategy of cheating to win.

Putting that obvious fact aside, the SPPL format cannot be run without good refs. Cases in point? Dirty bomb needs a silent ref to monitor it and call out players who wouldn't know. Rockets cannot be fairly judged in a firefight by the players themselves. RPGs have the same issue. Hot reinsertions are 99% impossible to be handled correctly by the players themselves.

We can discuss this all year and it looks like this thread's going to explode just like that but what it comes down to is this...

Either the SPPL steps up and invests the time and money to fix the reffing situation or else the SPPL is going to fade away like any number of other promoters and tournament series. The problem has been identified. The general solution has been determined. The volunteers and well-thought solutions have been offered. Either fix it or watch it fade away.
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#33 Guest_PaleRider_*

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Posted 23 July 2008 - 04:13 PM

Thank you again for your comments

Things to work on Making a list

1- SPPL hires and trains the Ref staff (take it away from the fields)
2- Pool of experienced, trained head refs
3- Ref training manual and certification
4-Some sort of incentive for SPPL teams to participate as refs


I can tell you for certin that all of those concerns are the same
one we haev and we are working on them. But we are alos in the middle
of a season and we just get one event finished and have to pack and go to the
next one. Jayson left yesterday to go to the NY event, with only 5 teams
we all don't get to go. My point is it will take time extra durring a season to make changes.
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#34 User is offline   Danger Dan 

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Posted 23 July 2008 - 04:18 PM

View PostThirdI, on Jul 23 2008, 04:38 PM, said:

Either the SPPL steps up and invests the time and money to fix the reffing situation or else the SPPL is going to fade away like any number of other promoters and tournament series. The problem has been identified. The general solution has been determined. The volunteers and well-thought solutions have been offered. Either fix it or watch it fade away.


From my understanding the "FIX" is already there. If a field does not supply adequate reffs for an event they will get penalized on their cut of the $$. Unfortunately that is either not happening or the penalty is not enough to matter. In the case of OR where the reffing has been bad for 3 years now the event needs to be pulled and a new field given the opportunity. If you look at the events that have issues it is always the same ones at the same fields. The SPPL needs to do the hard thing and pull events from good fields with bad owners/staff. The SPPL already pays for good reffs they just rarely get them.

The rules have been improved tremendously from last year (making it so that you can have several interpretations of the same rule) and the format is awesome. It is just time to do what it takes to get past this stage of growing pains.

In my opinion the SPPL has the potential to be a top level Tournament but is not there yet. It is good enough for me to attend again but still not to the point where I will travel to finals to see if the reffing is what it should be.

OH and as for the hopper rule I think it should be dropped and the paint cap brought back so teams cant spend there way in to the winners circle.
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#35 Guest_PaleRider_*

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Posted 23 July 2008 - 04:26 PM

I have been in a discussion on the MCB forum about the SPPL and woods ball leagues. the topic came up about how paintball started in the woods way back in the day. 10 man NPPL was played in the woods in the beginning

I asked this question:

Quote

I am not familiar with the "old NPPL rules" or format. I know it was in the woods but how was the game played. Why did they leave the woods?


This was the reply

Quote

Sorry to cut in and cannot, obviously, answer for Legion, but I would guess he's talking about 10-man NPPL in the woods, two flag-stations, points for flag pull and first pull (because, yes, there were plenty of times where a player from each team was scrambling for the flag at the same time), points for hang, points for eliminations. A lot of us old-timers have fond memories of those days though I think if some of us remembered how spry and full of energy we were back then we'd probably realize that young(er) us would have enjoyed duking it out on the "concept" fields a bit more.

Saying that, I personally miss looking for crawling lanes while walking fields, or the challenge of making the best out of the "bad" side of a field at the loss of the coin-flip... but then again, when I really sit down and think about it, I really don't miss the challenge of trying to make the best out of the crap side of a lopsided field while having the luck (usually bad for me) of the coin-toss determine how horrible my upcoming game would be. Ah, yes, and let's not forget how difficult it is to referee anything in the woods. You must constantly walk the line between bird-dogging a player while also keeping a hawk's eye on them in an attempt to discern an authentic hit from the copious amounts of spray covering them once the gunfights begin.

Anyway, the above reasons helped WDP when they introduced Hyperball as an alternative to playing in the sticks. It made for a more fair game all around, not to mention much easier to capture on film, or, say, squish into a stadium to give it a chance to be a little more spectator friendly.



You will notice that back in the day the NPPL had problems too. Lop sided fields, bad ref calls, hard to ref in the woods and so on. To again put this in perspective, they moved away from the woods to try and fix the problems ....yeah that worked
The fun of playing in the woods is also the problem with playing in the woods. Yes we can do better and we will, but some of it can't be made perfect

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#36 User is offline   Lomarandil 

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Posted 23 July 2008 - 04:58 PM

Ok, I'll chip in with my experience.

Sure, BoB has run into some missed calls, and a few bad calls, but that wasn't what irked us.

The following incident was.

Our strategy for Oklahoma 2007 was pretty simple. Take swing, solid gunfighting, and use the LAW to turn the tide on any teams that were faster/better gunfighters/more organized than we were.

Go to game 1, versus Cruel, Field One (Caen). Cruel takes out a large portion of our guys on the break, but our central force is still strong, in good position. Our LAW guy calls to a ref to hit a bunker (large tower) which had 2 Cruel gunners behind it at the time. The ref acknowledges, says he's ready. Our LAW guy snaps out of his bunker, under fire, takes the shot, pulls back in. The sound of the nerf hitting the tower is unmistakable (tin sides). We all look at the ref, who takes out his radio, and plaintively asks "What does a rocket do?". By the time that he gets a reply, the game has moved on, and those two players have moved to other bunkers. Ok. So, new ref, first game of the day, he's rusty. Costs us, but, eh, we'll work with it.

We hit that tower 8 times during the match (out of 9 shots fired at it) and hit another bunker once. In every situation, there were 1-3 Cruel players in the bunker, often firing at our LAW gunner, who snapped out of all sides of his bunker, even jumped over the top for a shot (which hit).

There was never a player deemed eliminated by any ref by the rocket launcher in that game.

We pleaded with the two nearby refs, called refs over from other portions of the field, asked them to contact the head ref. Nothing.

So in our case, the problem wasn't with refs not calling penalties. Lord knows, I shot one Cruel player, got eliminated 6 times (usually within 10 feet and 30 seconds of the safe zone :)), he went straight out, no problems.

The problem was refs not knowing the specific SPPL rules, and not being willing to find out what they were supposed to do (OKDDAY supplied refs, btw.. most were 14 or 15).

We had other small problems with the refs as I said.. missed calls and whatnot. But it was their inability/unwillingness to deal with the LAW that really caused us major issues.

(By the last game, I talked to Curtis (head field ref) beforehand.. He agreed to take care of all my rocket shots, and did an excellent job. Even when I winged one past his head.. sorry :dodgy: )

That's my experience with poor reffing. On the other hand, qualifiers reffed by Kartoon Express, the Irregulators, and 5150 were awesome!
Lo

This post has been edited by Lomarandil: 23 July 2008 - 05:00 PM


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#37 User is offline   secure 

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Posted 23 July 2008 - 05:33 PM

Oh wow the memories came flooding back when you mentionned the 'old NPPL'. I must have lost too many brain cells to head shots to not remember what it was like and bring it up. The commentary posted summed it up perfectly, and when you compare it to what we're accomplishing with the SPPL/CSPPL/ASPPL (that last one's supposed to be Australia..no clue what they call it there), we're light years ahead of the NPPL at the same stage in development.
I can personally vouch that the referee situation is being dealt with in a way that should go a long way to correcting the issues that have been brought to light both here and in other posts. Please, be patient when patience is difficult. Doing things right takes time, and the middle of the season, as PaleRider said, is one of the most difficult with so many qualifiers going on.
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#38 User is offline   Krazy8 

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Posted 23 July 2008 - 07:07 PM

View PostPaleRider, on Jul 23 2008, 04:13 PM, said:

1- SPPL hires and trains the Ref staff (take it away from the fields)
2- Pool of experienced, trained head refs
3- Ref training manual and certification
4-Some sort of incentive for SPPL teams to participate as refs

1- You do not need to technically hire refs. Many of us have said and would do the job for free. And if you use experience SPPL players...no training needed.
2- You also do not need experienced head refs. Honestly I think the head ref is thing worthless. You need a score keeper. Let the refs handle the rest together.
3- Um...see my response to #1
4- Yep.



Funny Lo...In Oregon it went like this...

"Ref! I am going to shoot a rocket at the top of the Hotel!"
"Uh...the what?" Remeber...this is a local kid/player who is reffing
"The two story building right in front of me."
"OK."
Rocket hits, ref runs over and tells the other ref and eventually the guy is removed. Cool! On the next shot I move.

"OK Ref, I am going to shoot the building just left of there...you ready?"
"Yeah."


Please remeber this is all taking place under heavy fire...Timbertiger and myself are attacking swing base alone near the begining of a respawn time. I am providing cover fire and target ID for Timbertiger who is a surgeon with the LAW!

Rocket hits the building and I break for a new bunker.
The player who jsut tree walked up to us has just mistakenly shot the ref, and then happily shoots me.
Actually a very good play on his behalf...but as Paul Harvey puts it...the rest of the story.

"Ref did you see it hit!?"
RUNNING THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION the ref yells "I don't know!"
TimberTiger promptly gets shot out.

Now we both would have still been eliminated, and rightfully so. That guy made a great move!
But if the ref would have not run away...he would also have been totally alone as one of our guys was moving in from the bottom.


I just really want other players to realize there is a problem.
And by making this thread I have also had Pale Rider acknowledge the issues and say they are being worked on.

That is great.

It is also the exact same answer I have heard for four seasons.

This post has been edited by Krazy8: 23 July 2008 - 07:15 PM

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#39 User is offline   Timbertiger 

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Posted 23 July 2008 - 07:33 PM

View PostSpartan03, on Jul 23 2008, 01:13 PM, said:

I keep reading all these complaints about bad reffing when in reality, the complaint is about a player cheating. Put the blame where it belongs! The sad reality is, the only reason we need refs AT ALL is because our fellow players cheat. We all know the rules, if we followed them, we'd just need one field manager to say "OK, they have 8 in the box, you know what to do." and off to the 50 we go. Playing on? That isn't the refs bad, thats the player that is playing on. The ref might have missed the call, but the player still knows he was hit and chose not to do the right thing.

But, in the end, we do need refs because too many players cheat, and so we need good knowledgable refs. I thought our refs at IL SPPL tried very hard and didn't miss much. Could they have been better? Yeah, but they did fine, and what they missed the players, usually, caught. I know Failure To Flatline called some hits on themselves that cost them flag pulls when the ref didn't even see. At the same time, I shot a player in ghillie three times in the stomach as he ran and he didn't take the hit, and I had to get a ref involved. In the end, he said he didn't know he was hit, and I believe him, but we still had to have the ref make the call because I shot him, pulled the flag, then he shot me and pulled the flag. The ref made a decision and it stuck.

My team, the Heretics, have talked about reffing an SPPL regional, as a team. The difficulty is that there are only two games near us, and we need the points from both games. We aren't going to Tennessee, but the cost for us to drive to TN to ref the TN SPPL is just too much, though we would do the job for free. The cost of gas and food is prohibitive. Likewise, we can't show up to a game and have some of our guys ref while others play without having other teams calling foul. Until experienced players and teams can and will forego the points, we are stuck with what we have.



No..........that's just it.................it would have gone better for the most part without those refs. I think most of the teams that were there were very honorable. There were also alot of players there that did not know the rules at all. They didn't bother this year..............don't ask me why? Alot of them specifically told us they didn't bother reading the rules this year! That is one of the major disappointments and why ThirdI specifically started a topic about reading the rules!
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#40 User is offline   WELT Magazine 

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Posted 23 July 2008 - 07:41 PM

Hey there, Pale Rider!

I'll take this opportunity to add to that: the old NPPL also suffered mightily from complaints of teams reffing each other, though you're talking series points there. If Team A can bump up a notch in the standings by, you know, being tough ref's on Team B, then regardless of whether they call a perfect finals game or not they're left wide open to scrutiny. Outside of the NXL reffing crew and a small core group of NPPL ref's (there is cross-over there as well, making the numbers even fewer) no one has a full, permanent reffing staff like all the big boy sports out there. It isn't feasible from a financial standpoint, though if the leagues were to re-unite there would be a much better chance for that sort of thing, though I'm starting to get off-topic...

Most anyone who has played competitively know what a nightmare being a referee can be, it take a special person to stick it out, and obviously, no rational person would expect perfection from anyone. And experience? There are professional players who have been shooting people since most of this industry were in diapers that I would cry if I saw in a zebra jersey; experience helps, no doubt, but is totally subjective. Being a ref is hard, and finding an entire crew (or three) that can do a quality job might be harder, I don't envy your position.

Where every person who has been stuck in your unenviable spot though walks the line of insanity is where you get to take all the flak for other people's incompetence, and while you're working yourself to death trying to make this events the absolute best they can be, one bad event, one tough questions thread can make it seem like no one appreciates what you're doing and maybe, just maybe, they're waiting in the bushes outside your house to hit you with a brick (can you tell I've been in that mess before?). Problem is, as in this thread, these expectations are not irrational (makes you crazy, though slightly easier to laugh off later that night, plus, makes for good stories). The best you can hope for when playing any event is consistent reffing, whether it's great or sketchy, as long as both sides are getting their fair dose, and for the crew to know the rules, obviously and especially the head ref. If that is met then someone paying, well, anything has a right to complain. Not to be a big jerk about it, but to point out something is amiss. I pay $30 to play in an indoor old man, fat guy soccer league, but on the nights we get the crappy ref we all moan. Since I paid only $30 for eight games, do I lose my right to complain if there's an imbecile running my game? Now please, that is in no way meant to be rude at all, I'm not trying to slide a dig in there, I'm just trying to illustrate a point.

I've said this many times: wherever there are humans in competition there will be cheating. It's great to think about playing a tournament where everyone calls paint checks on themselves, breaks off bunkering moves when they take a hit, eliminated players only get shot once, people tell you how awesome you are when you shoot them, and possibly give you lollipops after the game, but it will NEVER happen. I agree that the blame is on the bad players, but, as a customer I'm not giving the other players money to play fair, I'm paying for a competent reffing crew to take care of the offenders and maintain a level playing field.

Good grief, PaleRider, I feel your pain, and sincerely hope you do not take this post in any kind of negative light - I apologize if anything seems that way. As far as advice, the best I can say right now is to have a representative show up before the event (not just to scout the field), but to check out the field's staff a day or two prior. I know it's awful, but even when everyone else forgets their job and leaves you holding the bag, it's ultimately going to fall on your shoulders... but hey, that's why you get paid the big bucks, right? :laugh:

Best regards,
Jason Manning
U.S. Editor/WELT Magazine
(by the way, I'm not the only one using this account, just so you know... in case you're wanting to wait in my bushes to hit me with a brick.)
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#41 User is offline   Serenity 

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Posted 23 July 2008 - 07:46 PM

I have tried to stay out of this, as I have been biting my tongue for years, and it is sore. But there are some things I must just say.

1. I find it funny that you keep comparing the SPPL to the NPPL.....in the beginning, Rory told me that he wanted the SPPL to not be anything like the NPPL. He wanted it to be all about Sportsmanship and Honor.....things that happen to matter a whole lot to me and others that I play paintball with.

2. The answers have been there all along - they just need to be implemented.

3. The rules in this league change so often, I don't see how any ref can actually be 'trained' more than a week before an event. Pick a set of rules, leave them be, and enforce them. Everything has been made extremely complicated over and over again. Remember the old adage KISS - keep it simple stupid.... This would make it much easier for the refs and the players to know the rules. The only thing a ref needs to be a good ref in this league is to know the rules, not be afraid to enforce them, and have back up from SPPL staff on calls that said ref makes. Period. Been there, done that.

4. If you have head refs that know the rules, and they are given a staff that is inexperienced or uninformed, they can only work with what they have, and the reffing is bound to suck. Put 10% in, get 10% out. Common sense. So the SPPL 'cant afford' a ref staff....so can they afford half a ref staff? That would certainly improve things some....then they could work with field staff to make things better.

5. Some of you have said this is a player problem, too true. But the SPPL can't fix the player problem without fixing the ref problem first.
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#42 User is offline   JackRock 

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Posted 23 July 2008 - 08:21 PM

View PostSerenity, on Jul 23 2008, 08:46 PM, said:

I have tried to stay out of this, as I have been biting my tongue for years, and it is sore. But there are some things I must just say.

1. I find it funny that you keep comparing the SPPL to the NPPL.....in the beginning, Rory told me that he wanted the SPPL to not be anything like the NPPL. He wanted it to be all about Sportsmanship and Honor.....things that happen to matter a whole lot to me and others that I play paintball with.


I would say he's comparing not the leagues themselves, but the startup problems they had at similar timeline stages.

View PostSerenity, on Jul 23 2008, 08:46 PM, said:

2. The answers have been there all along - they just need to be implemented.


Agreed.

View PostSerenity, on Jul 23 2008, 08:46 PM, said:

3. The rules in this league change so often, I don't see how any ref can actually be 'trained' more than a week before an event. Pick a set of rules, leave them be, and enforce them. Everything has been made extremely complicated over and over again. Remember the old adage KISS - keep it simple stupid.... This would make it much easier for the refs and the players to know the rules. The only thing a ref needs to be a good ref in this league is to know the rules, not be afraid to enforce them, and have back up from SPPL staff on calls that said ref makes. Period. Been there, done that.


Very much agreed. When it'd take a player briefing of 4-5 hours, the rules are a tad too complicated.
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#43 User is offline   Schloob 

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Posted 23 July 2008 - 09:01 PM

WOW! That was paintfully; oops hold on I almost sliped off the ledge I was looking over and thinking of jumping off of. All joking aside, that was painful to read. I agree with most of it and disagree with most it if that is possible. The one thing that seems to be forgotten here is the hard work that has been done to make the league better. Althoug alot of the comments made are dead on some of them are completely out of conext and completely one sided. Everyone has had a bad call made. I am still PERTURBED that Michael Jordan pushed off Brian Russell in the NBA finals a few years back that cost the Utah Jazz a title. But that's another story. Anyways, I can site here and type all day about this topic and I proably won't change anyones opinions but I'll try by saying this.

I think it's great that each of you has a chance to hop on the forums and let everyone know what you think. Unfortunately, if I don't know about your issues before you get on the forums it makes it very difficult for me to try an fix them. I care about this league more than any of you will ever know and unless you were in my shoes you would never understand what it takes to try and do what we are trying to do. It's very easy to sit home on a computer and tell everyone how something should be done. If I please you, I will TINKLE off 15 other people. So it's an up hill battle but I have accepted that and will keep plugging along. I have and will continue to take all of your thoughts into consideration. Fixing some of these issue will darn near impossible even with teams that care about the league as some of you suggest.

I don't want to start pointing fingers so I won't but I think I should make a few comments to at least defend the SPPL and what I have done.
Timbertiger you and I have only spoke once about the hopper issue. I contacted you after you made similar comments on PBnation and asked that you bring your concerns to me first and in private before putting them on the forums. I care about this league. I want to do what is right but sometimes beating the SPPL up on the forums before talking to me about them isn't the best way to fix a problem. Although we didn't agree at that time I felt we had a good conversation. I thought I understood your point of view and hoped you had understood mine even though we didn't agree. Other than that, you and I have never talked about other issues so the implications that I have ignored your requests isn't fair.

Krazy, I agree with a lot of what you said. But you and I have never talked about the league either. We talked when you guys reffed Utah last year and you guys did a great job. There were a few things that happened during that event that you don't know about and I never got on the forums and told people what happened because it didn't change the fact that overall (99%) you guys and 702 did a fabulous job. Even though a few players at that event had some of the same issues with you and 702 that you have had your self. But I never made a big deal about it or felt it necessary to tell you because reffing is subjective and I know you guys did the best job you could. A reff makes a call and hopes it's the right one. Unfortunatley, the players don't always see it that way especially if the call goes against him.

The reason I mention this now though is because when you take things out of contexts it looks like the whole leaugue sucks and it's the worst thing ever and every ref has sucked and never made a good call and that just isn't true. For all the bad calls players seem to remember they have forgotten about 100 great calls where the refs actually did a great job. We have kicked players out of games and events this year for playing on and wiping. Although we said we would do it in years past it was hard to actually do it. But this year we have had a lot of players tell me they appreciate what we are doing and thank us for making the tough calls. I have over 100 emails from players and players family members telling us what a great job we are doing and to keep it up.

But where are those stories? If I started posting every positive email I got about the SPPL, it's great refs (believe it or not) you guys would all think I was a self serving glory hound out to toot my own horn. I really do appreciate the amount of support all of you have shown the league. I knows it's difficlut as a player to see things you don't agree with. Most of you might not know but I played in the SPPL the first two years. I was at all those games you mentioned Krazy. I am a player first, so I feel your pain and promise each of you that I take it to heart. Even the painfull stuff in this post and I try to fix the issues. For example, the Oregon field was docked almost $2000 dollars for not meeting his end of the agreement. I do have a contract with the field owners. I didn't in years past but after last years mess at the same event I decided I needed a contract to enforce the SPPL's agreement with these fields. We also have an age limit on refs that he clearly didn't meet. That's part of why the penalities were so steep. Normally, I wouldn't share this information with any of you. I don't think it's good business to do so. But since the issue has become so heated I feel it necessary to share with you some of the things we have done to address your issues.

We are trying. For those of you that continue to support us; thank you. I will work hard to improve the league and welcome any suggestions you have, good, bad, right or wrong. I do want to hear what you have to say. I might not be able to act on every suggestion but I will do what I can and I will thank you in advance for you support and suggestions.

For those you that have decided the SPPL is no longer for you I am deeply sadden that I have not met your expectations and I regret losing you. I only hope that at some point in the future you will give the SPPL a second look and at that time if you feel the league is once again worthy of your support I hope you will give us another chance. With or without you I will try to meet your expectations.

For those of you that have never played in the SPPL and might be considering it; I ask that you weight the information you have read and make the best decision for you and your team. If the SPPL is fortunate enough to gain your support please feel free to contact me at any time with questions or concerns and know that we are working hard to imporve the SPPL for the better from imporving rules and reff training to bigger and better prizes. I think we have seen some nice changes and improvement compared to years past but clearly there is still work to do.

Once again, thanks to all of you for you thoughts and comments.
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#44 User is offline   Schloob 

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Posted 23 July 2008 - 09:17 PM

View PostSerenity, on Jul 23 2008, 08:46 PM, said:

I have tried to stay out of this, as I have been biting my tongue for years, and it is sore. But there are some things I must just say.

1. I find it funny that you keep comparing the SPPL to the NPPL.....in the beginning, Rory told me that he wanted the SPPL to not be anything like the NPPL. He wanted it to be all about Sportsmanship and Honor.....things that happen to matter a whole lot to me and others that I play paintball with.

2. The answers have been there all along - they just need to be implemented.

3. The rules in this league change so often, I don't see how any ref can actually be 'trained' more than a week before an event. Pick a set of rules, leave them be, and enforce them. Everything has been made extremely complicated over and over again. Remember the old adage KISS - keep it simple stupid.... This would make it much easier for the refs and the players to know the rules. The only thing a ref needs to be a good ref in this league is to know the rules, not be afraid to enforce them, and have back up from SPPL staff on calls that said ref makes. Period. Been there, done that.

4. If you have head refs that know the rules, and they are given a staff that is inexperienced or uninformed, they can only work with what they have, and the reffing is bound to suck. Put 10% in, get 10% out. Common sense. So the SPPL 'cant afford' a ref staff....so can they afford half a ref staff? That would certainly improve things some....then they could work with field staff to make things better.

5. Some of you have said this is a player problem, too true. But the SPPL can't fix the player problem without fixing the ref problem first.


The rules are complicated but the only changes that have been made to the rules have come from players request to make them easier to understand, follow and make the game more fair. Right now everyone is complaining about the reffing but no one wants to hear about the teams that got screwed because objectives were poorly placed and worth too many points just to name a few. Every change that has been made has been done at the players requests. I have listened to the players where I could and the changes in the rules show that. So to say the rules are too complicated and keep changing isn't really fair. I guess the next time I actually have a ref enforce a playing on call and kick a player out I guess he can get on the forums and tell everyone "well if the rules would stop changing then I wouldn't have gotten kicked out since they didn't kick anyone out last year for playing on."
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#45 User is offline   Lomarandil 

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Posted 23 July 2008 - 09:36 PM

Wait, Moati played in the NBA? ;)

I need a clapping emoticon here Jayson. That was very, very well put.

A few great reffing calls off the top of my head

OKDDAY 06, Kartoon Express. Playing in our third game, against SOCOM (repeat match.. I love these guys). Using the rocket launcher, but more of a distraction than anything else.. I can't hit a thing. I finally make a good move, flag a ref using hand signals, and take a shot. Ok, I take three shots. The third hits the tree right behind the player. A second ref, without giving away my intention at all, positions himself on top of that player, and he's out within seconds. Head (from SOCOM) then proceeds to flank and tear me up. haha.

UTAH 07. Irregulators. I'm playing for US SOCOM (ha, tides have turned), up in the logfield on the topside of field one. My opponent dives into a bunker, but one of our players puts a few shots on his back in the process.. He calls for a paintcheck. Krazy8's son (name?) runs licketly split through the logs, but trips on one of the last ones, and takes a hard, hard fall. He gets right back up, dives into the bunker, checks the player (calls him out), and goes right back to reffing. Either the kid is as flexible as Gumby, or that's pure dedication.

UTAH 07, 5150. Field two is nearly impossible for me to play pump, all the brush keep snagging my shots. So, on a whim, I take a detour, walk the lower edge of the field, and end up right by their deadbox. I hunker down for a little bit to wait for the respawn, once they go, I walk up to the main flag and pull that, talk to their defender and make him take the hit. I walk up the trail to swing, find two of their players, surrender one and shoot the other in the foot. Finish walking to swing, pull that flag, and fall back for a bit to figure out where their guys are. During this escapade, I walk by nearly half a dozen refs. Not a single one gives any indication of my presence. They keep their radios low calling in the flag changes. They hardly even acknowledge my presence. One sideways glance, and I would have been done. Excellent job there.

Those are just a few, I'm sure I'll think of a few more to add in the next few days.
Lo

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