[betasniper]

i designed a paintball gun and want to know if it qualifies as a hammer. i posted a topic about it and intended the gun to be used in any position. here is a pic of the design
[attachment=25295:Update_3.PNG]

[Iron__Man]

well it looks like the p90 kit that's out there for a5's, but a little different.

as for what defines a hammer's gun, well ther's several points of view. first, some people say you an use any gun for any position, which is true. BUT we as hammers like to throw in the angle that some guns are better for certain positions.... i.e. we prefer to see the double trouble, or larger multi marker guns to be used for hammers than single markers. the biggest reason is firing time between reloads. with a double trouble, a target can be shot a continuously for 30 seconds at 30bps.. field legally. a reguar marker can only do 15 bps for something like 6 seconds. we prefer the long firing time because it gives us the ability to pin someone down for a VERY long time allowing a teammate or squad to bunker or surrender the subject being held down by us.

now as for covering fire anyone can provide that, a DT just does it better. we also feed of the fact that most players are either too weak or cheap to spring for the twins. sure some people can' afford it but wish to play as a hammer in a support role, and for them the DT argument doesn't really apply. i mean, you can't punish someone because they cant afford a piece of equipment. but the irritating part is when peole pop in and tel us that we don't need the DT when theyve never seen one or used one in person.

hope that helps a bit.

[Custom Cowboy]

Don't tell anyone I said this, but the reason a hammer gun is a hammer gun is pure weight. If its heavy enough to actually be used as a hammer and can effectively knock out an 1,800 bull with one swing, its good enough to be a hammer.
Now you know our secret.

[T_DEVIL]

Great! YET another secret handed out in casual conversation!

[Iron__Man]

geeze... good hing they don't know about the steroid injections you get free when you build the twins... oops... our secret mailing list...

[I.K.E.]

SHHH!!! Loose lips sink ships!

I actually was surprised by Iron_Man's comment about the cost of the markers. I actually used that argument in another thread about Hammers, I forget where. I'd guess than in general larger teams are more likely to have someone with a DT because they have someone who can afford it, and in large team play, it is more useful than a simple one-shot job.

The question I have is, would it be useful to have the DT's markers able to pivot? From what I see you basically have two markers pointed the same direction. Suppose they pointed in slightly different directions, would that increase the field of fire?

I dunno, I'm not a Hammer. And I don't have a DT, nor have I seen one up close. I am essentially completely ignorant....Ok...I am feeling stupider by the second....

[Iron__Man]

well, yes and no. see, most paintballs are innacurate enough (especially because i buy CHEAP paint), so the 2 barrels actually give you a pretty solid cone of fire. add apexes, and look out mamma! you could theoretically set the twins up right now to be able to shoot at 2 opposite corners of a speedball field. lol. but the whole pivot thing is arguable. yea, you could have them angled a bit, but for the simplicity of building the twins, they are set on the chassis. if they were to pivot, that would add alot of complex mechanical parts to keep the cranks connected and turning.... think drive shaft on a truck. as for the realistic concern of area coverage, its never really been a problem. most players just twist their hips a bit, and bam... back on target. and if even the DT doesnt give you enough splat, there's always the quadzilla..... how about a 64 BPS 4 foot wide firing lane?

so, yea, you could do it for giggles, but for practicality it comes down to "re point the darn thing" and " dont fix what aint broke", and finally " well, if the big nasty isnt good enough.. just make something bigger and nastier." lol.

[I.K.E.]

^ Well put.

[PLAGUE's Short Bus]

this may be off topic...but i love iron man.

as for the gun, it just looks pretty BA.

[Iron__Man]

PLAGUE, on Jul 29 2008, 04:19 PM, said:

this may be off topic...but i love iron man.

as for the gun, it just looks pretty BA.

i you too.

[Lament]

This is a loaded subject for me. Actually, this is more or less how I "cut my teeth here in the Spec Ops forum" was going on about the position, and the marker used. Two years ago, and now, you just can't find the threads very easily anymore about the discussions, the arguments, the going back and forth. As far as I am concerned, despite the arguments, the player defines the role, not the equipment. Yes, this is just as true about the Hammer position as it is about anything else.

I carry one marker at a time. I actually literally played paintball back in 1997-1998 with two markers in my hands. It started with a Shoebox Shocker and an upped Minimag. It changed to add in a V6 LED Angel. I would literally carry two markers (With hoppers and air tanks) and anywhere between six and eight pods of paint on me. I could swing both of them on one target or point them at two different targets and shoot some paint. Now a days, I only carry one marker on my person at a time when I play. It is all about shooting the paint more accurately, and laying down some good suppressive fire for my team mates, whether it be members of Team ForestFire or whatever collection of ragtag walk-ons I happen to be paired up with, to be able to move around and maybe gets some shots on people. In this case, in my opinion, and simply mine, you want something that is accurate, without having to be sniper accurate, quick, air efficient, and, most importantly, reliable. And I wanted to comment on this:

Iron__Man, on Jun 29 2008, 10:24 AM, said:

as for what defines a hammer's gun, well ther's several points of view. first, some people say you an use any gun for any position, which is true. BUT we as hammers like to throw in the angle that some guns are better for certain positions.... i.e. we prefer to see the double trouble, or larger multi marker guns to be used for hammers than single markers. the biggest reason is firing time between reloads. with a double trouble, a target can be shot a continuously for 30 seconds at 30bps.. field legally. a reguar marker can only do 15 bps for something like 6 seconds. we prefer the long firing time because it gives us the ability to pin someone down for a VERY long time allowing a teammate or squad to bunker or surrender the subject being held down by us.

This is a bit inaccurate, but keep in mind, I am being a bit technical here. Using a Tippmann A-5 or X7 as an example, shooting 15 BPS, with the stock hoppers, you are probably able to lay it down for almost 10 full seconds, shooting either with the RT trigger, or using an E-Grip that is tuned right. Using a DT, let us say a pair of Tippmann A-5's, again with stock hoppers, you are still shooting about 10 seconds, just shooting double the amount of paint. Now I know that most Hammers out there have larger hoppers, I want to say about 300 rounds per hopper, but yes, I have seen 450 round hoppers. So yes, with 450 round hoppers, you can carry 900 in the hoppers alone, and hit 30 BPS legally (Do keep in mind, the potential is there to actually have a DT hit 30 BPS legally on pretty much every single field in the US, if not the world) and lay down so much paint that everything in the immediate area of your attention turns to whatever fill your balls are. This is one thing about a DT that is properly set up that no one can argue, no matter what. You won't hear me every downgrade the Hammers ability to do this very thing.

Beyond this, anything that I have to say is less about the Hammer gun, and more about playing the what I perceive to be the position. It's unimportant in this thread. I still stick to my original belief that a Hammers gun should be pretty accurate, quick, air efficient, and reliable. Although many people will argue the air efficiency, You don't want to be out there shooting something that goes through a whole 68/4500 tank in 800 paintballs or less. Even if you carry two tanks, you won't be able to shoot your hopper from full to empty twice before you need more air.

[Machine Gun Kelly]

What defines a Hammer Gun is not the bps, the number of markers, or the number of barrels. Instead it is the psychological game it plays on the opposing team. At the field that I play at we have a lot of newbs come by. After playing against me, they always say, "Even if you weren't shooting at me I still ducked into cover." Granted they are newbs so they don't know that much about the world of paintball, but the fact that they won't even try to return fire is a HUGE advantage for my team. True it takes about 20-30 bps and a lot of paint to demand this kind of respect. So to all of the newbs who want to be a heavy gunner, but can't even dream of a double marker gatlin, all you need is a automatic marker (responsive or electronic trigger/hopper), a 6+1 harness, a lot of paintballs, and just enough attitude to make everyone else think you've done this before.

[Lament]

I agree with you, but I also disagree with you. In my book, it's the player that defines the position, not the equipment. But years ago, I distinguished myself at a certain big game, I think before there was a Spec Ops, by walking around with 17 pods on the field, and 19 pods off the field (Two more jammed into the belt of my pack). I was shooting an old LED V6 Angel with a 114/3000 tank, so it was not going to shoot that all at one sitting, but since I picked up two cases of paint, I felt that I might as well carry as much as I could. I actually was able to find myself a pod monkey to pick up my empties as I went through the paint. I was not shooting 20+ BPS, as the old Angels are limited to about 15 BPS, and with a single trigger shooting semi auto, I was not shooting that fast. But I was able to lay down the paint like no other out there. Actually, what was really funny was my first year, walking through the parking lot looking for people that I knew (Very few people that I actually knew) and having people, kids, teens, and adults, coming up to me and asking me what team I was playing for. If I answered with the same color team that they were on, they ran off yelling "The Pro is playing on our team". Somehow, I got ranked into a select group of people that were actual tourney players, even though I had not played one in years, and I certainly was not as good as those that played the NPPL/PSP, when it was still altogether and 10 man was still the big leagues.

Unfortunately, the Hammer is less the player defining the role, and the equipment that the player is using being his definition. Which reminds me, anyone want to buy a DT?

[betasniper]

so if it is multiple markers that define a hammer, then gatling guns dont count?

[lardlad]

Gatlin guns are too heavy to use.