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Confused I like being a Commander Rate Topic: -----

#16 User is offline   Mudbucket 

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Posted 02 June 2008 - 10:10 PM

As General George S. Patton once stated "You can't push a rope". But of course it comes down to a skill that you should already posses in spades as a commander... your ability to assess the situation at hand.
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#17 User is offline   InfantryMan Wolf 

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Posted 05 June 2008 - 09:07 PM

well put lol?
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#18 User is offline   Match99 

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Posted 06 June 2008 - 04:38 AM

View PostEagle Eye, on May 29 2008, 07:49 PM, said:

View PostMatch99, on May 29 2008, 04:03 PM, said:

^^^ Yes there is. Specops article on commander, duh. :panzer:


are you serious? dude, the spec-ops positions are not the bible. There is no hard rule that says a commander cannot lead from the front. If you don't believe me, my unit CO at D-day will show you a thing or two.

Hehe... dodgy = :D = sarcasm. I usually lead my squad from the front in fact.

Quote

That is one thing I don't get. Why are people afraid to try daring plays? I mean, its not like real war. You don't really die. So what if you try it and it doesn't work. Oh well, you can try something different next time ....


Exactly... even if it is your first time playing you should be daring. I'm not the most cautious of people, but w/e. I still try almost anything that occurs to me. And alot of times a gamble pays off (in paintball, not vegas).
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#19 User is offline   InfantryMan Wolf 

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Posted 06 June 2008 - 06:21 PM

View PostMatch99, on Jun 6 2008, 04:38 AM, said:

View PostEagle Eye, on May 29 2008, 07:49 PM, said:

View PostMatch99, on May 29 2008, 04:03 PM, said:

^^^ Yes there is. Specops article on commander, duh. :P


are you serious? dude, the spec-ops positions are not the bible. There is no hard rule that says a commander cannot lead from the front. If you don't believe me, my unit CO at D-day will show you a thing or two.

Hehe... dodgy = :happy: = sarcasm. I usually lead my squad from the front in fact.

Quote

That is one thing I don't get. Why are people afraid to try daring plays? I mean, its not like real war. You don't really die. So what if you try it and it doesn't work. Oh well, you can try something different next time ....


Exactly... even if it is your first time playing you should be daring. I'm not the most cautious of people, but w/e. I still try almost anything that occurs to me. And alot of times a gamble pays off (in paintball, not vegas).


im telling you its not fear its hesitation and as i always tell me team "hesitation = death"
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#20 User is offline   MurderDeathKill 

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Posted 06 June 2008 - 06:49 PM

View PostAce-014, on May 30 2008, 12:00 PM, said:

View PostEagle Eye, on May 29 2008, 03:49 PM, said:

View PostMatch99, on May 29 2008, 04:03 PM, said:

^^^ Yes there is. Specops article on commander, duh. :panzer:


are you serious? dude, the spec-ops positions are not the bible. There is no hard rule that says a commander cannot lead from the front. If you don't believe me, my unit CO at D-day will show you a thing or two.

The trick is knowing WHICH battles to lead from the front. You cannot be a frontman all the time and expect to lead efficiently. a commander should be a sabre or broadsword position, giving cover fire and orders from the rear, but still in the firefight.

if you are in charge of more than one squad, you need to keep in communication with the other squad(s). if they need it, you should disengage to lead them personally.


That being said, if you are the CO in a large scenario battle, you need to remain at base to direct your units to their objectives. But you volunteer for those positions...

Nice post, but for future reference, notice the dodgy.

best. exchange. ever.


One of the benefits of being your team leader is that you get to make the rules. It's your team, or at least it's your responsibility and you ge to decide how to deal with it. The only people who stand out are the ones who break the mold, so don't be afraid to do your own thing. Like the last couple of posts have said, if it doesn't work, you can always do something else next time.
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#21 User is offline   I.K.E. 

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Posted 06 June 2008 - 07:25 PM

In leadership training you will find two kinds of leaders.

The first is the NCO. (Non-Comissioned Officer ie; Sergeants, etc) He is the epitomy of leadership by example. He shows the grunts how he wants it done, and gets into the thick of things. He works WITH the squad giving commands as he goes.

The second is the Officer. He is the epitomy of leadership by delegation. He is the one that has to look at the overall picture and make the decisions. He works ABOVE the squads giving orders as he goes.

Both types are necessary for the success of any mission. In paintball you will often see a mix of both levels. What people have said above is very accurate and very good. It follows the model of the military, police, etc who use a chain of command to conduct business.

The movie "We Were Soldiers" provides a very good example of the type of leadership that you all have been discussing. While it was just a movie, it was based on a real person who was a real leader.
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#22 User is offline   InfantryMan Wolf 

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Posted 07 June 2008 - 07:05 PM

I have found someone to be the "officer" on my team and i lead the team in the heat of battlei lead cause i have more experience
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#23 User is offline   Dunceb4ll 

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 01:40 PM

It doesn't really matter if the commander gets taken out, what is gonna happen? Personally I lead my team most of the time and the only time I make someone else do the crazy moves is when its a tournament or I'm out of paint
THE END IS COMING!!!! AND IT WILL BE UNTIL IT GETS HERE!!!!!!
CAUTION IN THE INTEREST OF SAFETY IT IS ADVISABLE TO KEEP DUNCEB4LL AWAY FROM FIRE AND FLAMES.
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#24 User is offline   I.K.E. 

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 08:39 PM

View PostDunceb4ll, on Jun 8 2008, 03:40 PM, said:

It doesn't really matter if the commander gets taken out, what is gonna happen? Personally I lead my team most of the time and the only time I make someone else do the crazy moves is when its a tournament or I'm out of paint

No offense, but if you are the leader of your team, and you getting out doesn't matter, then you have accomplished one of two things.
Either:
1 ) Your team has become so well-trained that each person can do another person's job.
OR
2 ) Your team actually operates without true leadership.

You see, the real difference between a leader and the rest is the scope of the job. Each member just does one job, and can focus on what they are told to do. But a leader has to keep track of the entire picture of the battle. EX: A Broadsword is told to lay suppressive fire on a tree line. He steps up, and begins to unload. A Sniper is sent to flank the same tree line. He begins his route and looks for a target. A Dagger is sent to bunker a guy who has left the safety of his team, and three Sabres are sent to reinforce the line where it has become thinnest. All of those members just do exactly what their part of the battle is. BUT the commander is the one who had to put them all in place. He has to know all the facets of the battle, arrange his team, prioritize tasks, and give orders. Very complicated. Unless you have two awesome commanders on your team, losing one seriously hurts the team.
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#25 User is offline   Dunceb4ll 

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 08:50 PM

good point I.K.E., but I still like doing the dirty work when we are playing with mixed up teams
THE END IS COMING!!!! AND IT WILL BE UNTIL IT GETS HERE!!!!!!
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#26 User is offline   I.K.E. 

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 09:19 PM

View PostDunceb4ll, on Jun 8 2008, 10:50 PM, said:

good point I.K.E., but I still like doing the dirty work when we are playing with mixed up teams

No reason you can't or shouldn't. As I alluded to but did not say earlier, it is a good idea to build a certain amount of resiliency into your team. IE knowing how to do more than one job. You spending some time Sabering (Or whatever) allows your "second string" commander to get some experience and he can take over in the unlikely event that you did get out in a critical game.
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#27 User is offline   MurderDeathKill 

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 09:35 PM

IKE, I wouldn't say those are the only two options. There are an infinite number of leadership styles. There's the quarterback, who calls the plays, takes the ball and makes it happen -- great example of a stand-up leader people can look to. But it's easy to overlook, say, the soccer team captain. He might not "make a call" for the entire game; but he can do just as much to set the tempo of the game by creating that atmosphere before the game. Obviously every style has its strengths and weaknesses. But depending on who your leader is, those weaknesses might never come out.

Anyway all's I'm saying is that people love to generalize, but really nothing is so simple, especially leadership. Not in my experience, anyway.
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#28 User is offline   I.K.E. 

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 10:02 PM

View PostMurderDeathKill, on Jun 8 2008, 11:35 PM, said:

IKE, I wouldn't say those are the only two options. There are an infinite number of leadership styles. There's the quarterback, who calls the plays, takes the ball and makes it happen -- great example of a stand-up leader people can look to. But it's easy to overlook, say, the soccer team captain. He might not "make a call" for the entire game; but he can do just as much to set the tempo of the game by creating that atmosphere before the game. Obviously every style has its strengths and weaknesses. But depending on who your leader is, those weaknesses might never come out.

Anyway all's I'm saying is that people love to generalize, but really nothing is so simple, especially leadership. Not in my experience, anyway.


Hmm...I think what you are talking about is more related to personality. Yes, there are many types of leadership STYLES. But in my experience those are the two basic leadership ROLES. I hope you see what I am saying. Leadership is the ART of influencing others to a common goal. I think we agree on that idea.

This post has been edited by I.K.E.: 08 June 2008 - 10:04 PM

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#29 User is offline   MurderDeathKill 

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 01:07 PM

Yeah. All I mean is that you can have the ILLUSION of a total lack of leadership, when in fact your team is leading itself. It's hard to describe what I'm talking about... basically, throw the textbook out the window, because there's not a wrong way to lead. We can play word games all day, but in the end you have a leader, and you have followers, and that's it. No dictionary, no leader's guidebook, just you and your people, and you've gotta make those two things work.

The way I see it there are no rules. There's not even a rule that says there are no rules. How you do your job is up to you, and you'll know pretty quick how well it's working if you're open to feedback.
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#30 User is offline   I.K.E. 

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Posted 11 June 2008 - 11:06 AM

View PostMurderDeathKill, on Jun 10 2008, 03:07 PM, said:

Yeah. All I mean is that you can have the ILLUSION of a total lack of leadership, when in fact your team is leading itself. It's hard to describe what I'm talking about... basically, throw the textbook out the window, because there's not a wrong way to lead. We can play word games all day, but in the end you have a leader, and you have followers, and that's it. No dictionary, no leader's guidebook, just you and your people, and you've gotta make those two things work.

The way I see it there are no rules. There's not even a rule that says there are no rules. How you do your job is up to you, and you'll know pretty quick how well it's working if you're open to feedback.


You're right in so many ways. I agree with a lot of what you've said. What I originally was talking about can be illustrated in a large scenario game. The Squad leader versus the Commanding General. Let me tell you that while both of those guys are leaders, they do very different jobs.

As far as throwing out the dictionaries and guidebooks....I totally disagree. While leadership may be an art, even artists can do with some training to help improve their skills. Van Gogh and Leonardo da Vinci are both artists who made major contributions to art, and yet both had to study art to get started. Sure, you can jump in to any art and just learn as you go, but training can help you avoid re-inventing the wheel. Creating definitions and guidelines for leadership is part of the training process and provides a leadership student with an understanding of the fundamentals of what works. Last point, if leadership training is pointless, why are you talking about it in this thread? I'm not trying to flame you, just to point out that the very fact that you have given your opinion demonstrates that you are trying to help others learn.

Remember that negatives can describe positives. This means that when you describe what something is not, it can clarify what something IS. By eliminating the rules, you define chaos. Even without a rulebook those rules exist. They may not be the same as everyone else's, but your team has unwritten rules that must be followed.
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