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Sociology. We are the Youth of the Nation. Rate Topic: ***** 1 Votes

#31 Guest_SaltandVinegar_*

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 07:48 PM

View PostZKM_95, on Mar 20 2008, 08:44 PM, said:

I say if the teenager doesnt want to learn dont make him. Let him flip burgers at a fast-food joint for the rest of his life.


What makes you think he'll go flip burgers for the rest of his life? He's going to go commit crimes for the rest of his life, robbing homes, killing people cause no one made the effort to change something in his life or teach him what is right and what is wrong. Their willingness to learn has nothing to do with. Sometimes they just had no one come in and change their life. They'll talk, you just need to listen and treat them as human beings.
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#32 Guest_ZKM_95_*

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 07:48 PM

View PostMonoxide, on Mar 20 2008, 07:44 PM, said:

I agree with Ashrak; suck it up. Everyone's been ostracized at one point or another. It's how that person handles it that makes the difference in their integrity. Theres always going to be that one a-hole that can't keep his mouth shut and feels compelled to put you as well as others down because of their own personal insecurities. That's the way life is. There will always be a-holes; jerkoffs; sh** bags and the like. The journey is learning to deal with that stress in a productive manner.


Yeah you would think that
Your also probably a decent sized(or decent match in ego)to a bully
but those who might be less fortunate, you cannot expect to stick up to a bully
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#33 Guest_SaltandVinegar_*

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 07:50 PM

View PostZKM_95, on Mar 20 2008, 08:46 PM, said:

Hmmm well say hypothetically my friend and I were dealing drugs. If someone ratted on my friend and he went to jail, I probably wouldnt deal anymore...


Again, you fail to look at reality. In real life, most of our prisoners are repeat offenders. What does that say? You're little scenario is not realistic. Deterrence doesn't always work.

View PostMonoxide, on Mar 20 2008, 08:44 PM, said:

I agree with Ashrak; suck it up.


No. Every one has a breaking point. Some have higher ones, some will snap at first contact.
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#34 Guest_ZKM_95_*

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 07:53 PM

View PostSaltandVinegar, on Mar 20 2008, 07:48 PM, said:

View PostZKM_95, on Mar 20 2008, 08:44 PM, said:

I say if the teenager doesnt want to learn dont make him. Let him flip burgers at a fast-food joint for the rest of his life.


What makes you think he'll go flip burgers for the rest of his life? He's going to go commit crimes for the rest of his life, robbing homes, killing people cause no one made the effort to change something in his life or teach him what is right and what is wrong. Their willingness to learn has nothing to do with. Sometimes they just had no one come in and change their life. They'll talk, you just need to listen and treat them as human beings.


well hes going to need an income of money
and without a basic highschool diploma hes gonna have trouble getting out of a fast-food place
what if he turns to crimes for his income?
catch him and send his butt to jail
they are going to eventually learn by themselves
talking to a rebellious teenager(usually) only fuels their hate(for lack of a better term)

View PostSaltandVinegar, on Mar 20 2008, 07:50 PM, said:

View PostZKM_95, on Mar 20 2008, 08:46 PM, said:

Hmmm well say hypothetically my friend and I were dealing drugs. If someone ratted on my friend and he went to jail, I probably wouldnt deal anymore...


Again, you fail to look at reality. In real life, most of our prisoners are repeat offenders. What does that say? You're little scenario is not realistic. Deterrence doesn't always work.

View PostMonoxide, on Mar 20 2008, 08:44 PM, said:

I agree with Ashrak; suck it up.


No. Every one has a breaking point. Some have higher ones, some will snap at first contact.

what does that say?
their bloody morons who deserve to be in iron pins
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#35 User is offline   Sherman 

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 07:55 PM

View PostSaltandVinegar, on Mar 20 2008, 10:50 PM, said:

Again, you fail to look at reality. In real life, most of our prisoners are repeat offenders. What does that say? You're little scenario is not realistic. Deterrence doesn't always work.


This has truth in it, however I'm willing to bet most of the school shooters had something psychologically wrong with them in the first place. There's no way of knowing that they would be stable even in a caring environment. Deterrence may very well be the most suitable way to deal with them.
/signature
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#36 Guest_SaltandVinegar_*

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 07:55 PM

View PostZKM_95, on Mar 20 2008, 08:51 PM, said:

View PostSaltandVinegar, on Mar 20 2008, 07:48 PM, said:

View PostZKM_95, on Mar 20 2008, 08:44 PM, said:

I say if the teenager doesnt want to learn dont make him. Let him flip burgers at a fast-food joint for the rest of his life.


What makes you think he'll go flip burgers for the rest of his life? He's going to go commit crimes for the rest of his life, robbing homes, killing people cause no one made the effort to change something in his life or teach him what is right and what is wrong. Their willingness to learn has nothing to do with. Sometimes they just had no one come in and change their life. They'll talk, you just need to listen and treat them as human beings.


well hes going to need an income of money
and without a basic highschool diploma hes gonna have trouble getting out of a fast-food place
what if he turns to crimes for his income?
catch him and send his butt to jail
they are going to eventually learn by themselves
talking to a rebellious teenager(usually) only fuels their hate(for lack of a better term)


Who's going to hire him if he's a convicted criminal at least once in his life? He'll turn to what he knows best, crime, to get his income. It works the same way when he comes out of jail. That doesn't stop him. America has so many prisoners we're more worried about making sure they have a place to sleep and have food other than rehab. They'll just come back in a cycle cause they know no life outside of crime.
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#37 User is offline   Ashrak 

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 07:56 PM

View PostMonoxide, on Mar 20 2008, 10:44 PM, said:

I agree with Ashrak; suck it up. Everyone's been ostracized at one point or another. It's how that person handles it that makes the difference in their integrity. Theres always going to be that one a-hole that can't keep his mouth shut and feels compelled to put you as well as others down because of their own personal insecurities. That's the way life is. There will always be a-holes; jerkoffs; crap bags and the like. The journey is learning to deal with that stress in a productive manner.


I fixed your quote. That is a filter dodge and you will get warned. Trust me.
Alea iacta est ~ The board is set, the pieces are moving.
~ Like the leaves of the forest when Summer is green, That host with their banners at sunset were seen:
Like the leaves of the forest when Autumn hath blown, That host on the morrow lay withered and strown. ~ Destruction of Sennacherib

~ Believe me, dear Sir: there is not in the American states a man who more cordially loves a union with his country than I do. But, by the God that made me, I will cease to exist before I yield to a connection on such terms as the United States Congress proposes; and in this, I think I speak the sentiments of America. ~ Thomas Jefferson (modernized)
Summertime Blues
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#38 Guest_SaltandVinegar_*

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 08:00 PM

View PostSherman, on Mar 20 2008, 08:55 PM, said:

View PostSaltandVinegar, on Mar 20 2008, 10:50 PM, said:

Again, you fail to look at reality. In real life, most of our prisoners are repeat offenders. What does that say? You're little scenario is not realistic. Deterrence doesn't always work.


This has truth in it, however I'm willing to bet most of the school shooters had something psychologically wrong with them in the first place. There's no way of knowing that they would be stable even in a caring environment. Deterrence may very well be the most suitable way to deal with them.


Okay, the FBI has yet to come up with a profile for school shooters. Many are perfectly fine, some aren't. Some go off pills and commit crimes, some have just been teased and don't have any way to deal with the problem.

See, many times we create the mental illness. Mental illness can be created, then that leads to a school shooting. But deterrance won't work again if they don't care about dieing in a heat of battle with SWAT.

View PostZKM_95, on Mar 20 2008, 08:53 PM, said:

what does that say?
their bloody morons who deserve to be in iron pins


It's a mental illness. Your breaking point is probably shorter than mine. Doesn't that make you a moron? No. So grow up and use some scientific logic to your debate or just quit posting in this thread.
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#39 Guest_ZKM_95_*

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 08:00 PM

View PostSaltandVinegar, on Mar 20 2008, 07:55 PM, said:

View PostZKM_95, on Mar 20 2008, 08:51 PM, said:

View PostSaltandVinegar, on Mar 20 2008, 07:48 PM, said:

View PostZKM_95, on Mar 20 2008, 08:44 PM, said:

I say if the teenager doesnt want to learn dont make him. Let him flip burgers at a fast-food joint for the rest of his life.


What makes you think he'll go flip burgers for the rest of his life? He's going to go commit crimes for the rest of his life, robbing homes, killing people cause no one made the effort to change something in his life or teach him what is right and what is wrong. Their willingness to learn has nothing to do with. Sometimes they just had no one come in and change their life. They'll talk, you just need to listen and treat them as human beings.


well hes going to need an income of money
and without a basic highschool diploma hes gonna have trouble getting out of a fast-food place
what if he turns to crimes for his income?
catch him and send his butt to jail
they are going to eventually learn by themselves
talking to a rebellious teenager(usually) only fuels their hate(for lack of a better term)


Who's going to hire him if he's a convicted criminal at least once in his life? He'll turn to what he knows best, crime, to get his income. It works the same way when he comes out of jail. That doesn't stop him. America has so many prisoners we're more worried about making sure they have a place to sleep and have food other than rehab. They'll just come back in a cycle cause they know no life outside of crime.


THEN
at that point in his/her life they should suck it up
I think if they did the time for the crime it should be illegal to "discriminate" on those terms
Although, if you were a shop owner would you feel safe hiring a documented criminal?
thats America for you "land of opportunity and a bit of discrimination"
0

#40 Guest_ZKM_95_*

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 08:01 PM

View PostSaltandVinegar, on Mar 20 2008, 07:55 PM, said:

View PostZKM_95, on Mar 20 2008, 08:51 PM, said:

View PostSaltandVinegar, on Mar 20 2008, 07:48 PM, said:

View PostZKM_95, on Mar 20 2008, 08:44 PM, said:

I say if the teenager doesnt want to learn dont make him. Let him flip burgers at a fast-food joint for the rest of his life.


What makes you think he'll go flip burgers for the rest of his life? He's going to go commit crimes for the rest of his life, robbing homes, killing people cause no one made the effort to change something in his life or teach him what is right and what is wrong. Their willingness to learn has nothing to do with. Sometimes they just had no one come in and change their life. They'll talk, you just need to listen and treat them as human beings.


well hes going to need an income of money
and without a basic highschool diploma hes gonna have trouble getting out of a fast-food place
what if he turns to crimes for his income?
catch him and send his butt to jail
they are going to eventually learn by themselves
talking to a rebellious teenager(usually) only fuels their hate(for lack of a better term)


Who's going to hire him if he's a convicted criminal at least once in his life? He'll turn to what he knows best, crime, to get his income. It works the same way when he comes out of jail. That doesn't stop him. America has so many prisoners we're more worried about making sure they have a place to sleep and have food other than rehab. They'll just come back in a cycle cause they know no life outside of crime.


THEN
at that point in his/her life they should suck it up
I think if they did the time for the crime it should be illegal to "discriminate" on those terms
Although, if you were a shop owner would you feel safe hiring a documented criminal?
thats America for you "land of opportunity and a bit of discrimination"

View PostSaltandVinegar, on Mar 20 2008, 08:00 PM, said:

View PostSherman, on Mar 20 2008, 08:55 PM, said:

View PostSaltandVinegar, on Mar 20 2008, 10:50 PM, said:

Again, you fail to look at reality. In real life, most of our prisoners are repeat offenders. What does that say? You're little scenario is not realistic. Deterrence doesn't always work.


This has truth in it, however I'm willing to bet most of the school shooters had something psychologically wrong with them in the first place. There's no way of knowing that they would be stable even in a caring environment. Deterrence may very well be the most suitable way to deal with them.


Okay, the FBI has yet to come up with a profile for school shooters. Many are perfectly fine, some aren't. Some go off pills and commit crimes, some have just been teased and don't have any way to deal with the problem.

See, many times we create the mental illness. Mental illness can be created, then that leads to a school shooting. But deterrance won't work again if they don't care about dieing in a heat of battle with SWAT.

View PostZKM_95, on Mar 20 2008, 08:53 PM, said:

what does that say?
their bloody morons who deserve to be in iron pins


It's a mental illness. Your breaking point is probably shorter than mine. Doesn't that make you a moron? No. So grow up and use some scientific logic to your debate or just quit posting in this thread.


LOL?!? Its a mental illness to be a criminal?
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#41 Guest_SaltandVinegar_*

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 08:04 PM

View PostZKM_95, on Mar 20 2008, 09:01 PM, said:

LOL?!? Its a mental illness to be a criminal?


Violent criminals are mentally ill. They're psychopathic, look it up. School shooters turn sociopathic, we made them.

But this is a discussion about preventing a shooting.
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#42 User is offline   Ashrak 

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 08:05 PM

We all have to suck it up. And yes SnV I have lived with mental pain. Kids main fun of me, I almost got my arm broken in first grade, etc. Has my life been as hard as others? Certainly not, its how I kept (and keep) things in perspective. I also have some personal history that I am keeping private. I sucked it up.

Another solution, which everyone ignored, is to let the victims fight back without nailing them to the wall. Under our current system that is not allowed. I would certainly come to the aid of someone I saw getting beat up. But again, under our current system, I would as much of a "bad guy" as the original persecutor. We have to fight for each other. I think that will be the most effective way.
Alea iacta est ~ The board is set, the pieces are moving.
~ Like the leaves of the forest when Summer is green, That host with their banners at sunset were seen:
Like the leaves of the forest when Autumn hath blown, That host on the morrow lay withered and strown. ~ Destruction of Sennacherib

~ Believe me, dear Sir: there is not in the American states a man who more cordially loves a union with his country than I do. But, by the God that made me, I will cease to exist before I yield to a connection on such terms as the United States Congress proposes; and in this, I think I speak the sentiments of America. ~ Thomas Jefferson (modernized)
Summertime Blues
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#43 Guest_ZKM_95_*

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 08:07 PM

What?!? Not all school shooters are mental. Im sure if you asked around, a few sane people, they would probably say they wouldnt mind taking a shot at a few individuals that they dont like....Then you will ask him why dont they and they will tell you because they know its wrong. If you go to highschool your highschool must be pretty boring.

its those few who just basically went along with it
had the resources
had the time
had the plan

This post has been edited by ZKM_95: 20 March 2008 - 08:09 PM

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#44 Guest_SaltandVinegar_*

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 08:10 PM

View PostAshrak, on Mar 20 2008, 09:05 PM, said:

We all have to suck it up. And yes SnV I have lived with mental pain. Kids main fun of me, I almost got my arm broken in first grade, etc. Has my life been as hard as others? Certainly not, its how I kept (and keep) things in perspective. I also have some personal history that I am keeping private. I sucked it up.


Good job. I'd give you an E-Cookie if I could. I got beat up in fifth grade, I kind of went the opposite way than you, I bulked up and made friends, but, yeah.

It goes back to the snapping part. Some kids just snap. But, are they going to suck it up? It just doesn't work that way. If I was a counselor and I had a kid come in saying he feels like he wants to blow up the school, do I tell him to suck it up? No. He'll feel betrayed.

View PostZKM_95, on Mar 20 2008, 09:07 PM, said:

What?!? Not all school shooters are mental. Im sure if you asked around, a few sane people, they would probably say they wouldnt mind taking a shot at a few individuals that they dont like....Then you will ask him why dont they and they will tell you because they know its wrong. If you go to highschool your highschool must be pretty boring.


Did you read what I wrote? We make them mental. Mental illness can be created. Plus, everyone has some mental illness, not a whole lot, but everyone can be classified with some illness.

Many, are mental to begin with, yes.
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#45 User is offline   ghostinthewood 

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 08:11 PM

I'll refer back to my original post since I had to leave and couldnt for Monoxide and Ashrak. Theyre either living in the psat or just blind.
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