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Secondary Weapon secondary weapon for daggers Rate Topic: -----

Poll: Secondary Weapon (77 member(s) have cast votes)

What other weapon do you, dagger, carry around?

  1. Grenades (26 votes [27.96%])

    Percentage of vote: 27.96%

  2. Pistol (35 votes [37.63%])

    Percentage of vote: 37.63%

  3. Nothing (32 votes [34.41%])

    Percentage of vote: 34.41%

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#16 User is offline   cjottawa 

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Posted 28 July 2007 - 12:44 PM

Nice photo French Toast! BTW: I saw a cereal at the grocery store in the shape of little pieces of toast if you're still looking for something to put inside the grip frame of your Phantom. :D

OK, back on topic!

I was playing the other day and my marker malfunctioned. This is an infrequent occurrence but it happened at just the right time to let someone get around my 6. If I'd had something like an AGD Sydarm strapped to my thigh, I would have dropped the main gun and gone with that. On the field is no time to be messing with a twitchy marker - a #2 is a good thing as long as it's light enough not to get in the way when you don't need it. The Tiberius pistol is about the right size but I'd prefer something more like a PGP or the Sydarm that didn't require proprietary clips.

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#17 User is offline   Bielerga 

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Posted 28 July 2007 - 01:42 PM

The problem with saying "if a pistol works for you do it" is that it really just adds extra weight, a larger profile, and more stuff you have to buy. I'm not saying you can't play light and in the front with a pistol, just that its a bad idea to hurt every game for something that may happen some day. Honestly I've had one marker malfunction out of all the times I've played, if your having a ton more you probably need to take better care of your marker.
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#18 User is offline   Florentine 

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Posted 28 July 2007 - 07:04 PM

well ive seen some guys play with just pistols and owned everybody because his gear was soo light. and since he had a tac 8, he had to have a crack shot. like bielerga said, its better to have just one gun malfunction on you on the field other than 2 guns malfunction then your screwed. so a pistol could come in handy
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#19 User is offline   Knightwolf16 

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Posted 28 July 2007 - 07:35 PM

2 Pistols and 2 nades.
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#20 User is offline   rightintheface 

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Posted 29 July 2007 - 02:57 PM

View PostBielerga, on Jul 28 2007, 01:42 PM, said:

The problem with saying "if a pistol works for you do it" is that it really just adds extra weight, a larger profile, and more stuff you have to buy. I'm not saying you can't play light and in the front with a pistol, just that its a bad idea to hurt every game for something that may happen some day. Honestly I've had one marker malfunction out of all the times I've played, if your having a ton more you probably need to take better care of your marker.

the weight is negligible, and the profile isn't a problem if you plan for it.
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#21 User is offline   Bielerga 

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Posted 29 July 2007 - 03:54 PM

View Postrightintheface, on Jul 29 2007, 05:57 PM, said:

View PostBielerga, on Jul 28 2007, 01:42 PM, said:

The problem with saying "if a pistol works for you do it" is that it really just adds extra weight, a larger profile, and more stuff you have to buy. I'm not saying you can't play light and in the front with a pistol, just that its a bad idea to hurt every game for something that may happen some day. Honestly I've had one marker malfunction out of all the times I've played, if your having a ton more you probably need to take better care of your marker.

the weight is negligible, and the profile isn't a problem if you plan for it.


See thats where you are wrong. I dunno if someone wants to weight their pistol full of paint, co2, and extra ammo/gas but I'd wager it weighs maybe 5 or 6 pounds. That is a ton of weight, I don't care who you are. Now before anyone jumps to my favorite "maybe you should life weights" argument lets stop and think. Lifting 5 pounds once, maybe even 10, or 20 pounds is not that much but try just holding it up, you will get tired quicker than you would have thoughts. Still don't belive me? Wear a pistol, ammo and everything around your home for about 30 minutes (sitting down doesn't count) and I can promise you will be more tired than just walking around without it. So what does this all mean?

Every calorie that you spend carrying around the pistol for the once a year ordeal is a calorie that you could spend running, sprinting, and jumping. The more calories used in your legs, the higher the buildup of lactic acid, and the sorer you will feel. So sure its not a huge deal, but the answer is it is hurting you more than its helping you unless your marker malfunctions every other day in which case you should probably get a new one.

As for the profile, think about this. Your saying that a guy that weighs 100 lbs and a guy that weighs 300 lbs can both, hide, bend, twist, and move around bunkers the exact same as long as they plan for it? Having a smaller profile allows you to be smaller, and thus cover yourself better. Thats why its so much harder to get gun hits on pump guns cause they are smaller. But hey, thats just my two cents.
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#22 User is offline   UMPYDUMPYBOY 

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Posted 31 July 2007 - 08:20 PM

Tac8. Its that simple. Put it on a custom vest, on your leg or on your leg
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#23 User is offline   Lil' C 

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Post icon  Posted 04 August 2007 - 10:38 AM

Always a grenade or two... :( :happy: Grenades offer a significant tactical advantage for Daggers, and they are great for shaking things up. Additionally, Daggers are close enough to the action to toss grenades with some real precision (given a little practice...).

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This post has been edited by Lil' C: 04 August 2007 - 10:42 AM

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#24 User is offline   rightintheface 

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Posted 11 August 2007 - 06:07 PM

View PostBielerga, on Jul 29 2007, 03:54 PM, said:

View Postrightintheface, on Jul 29 2007, 05:57 PM, said:

View PostBielerga, on Jul 28 2007, 01:42 PM, said:

The problem with saying "if a pistol works for you do it" is that it really just adds extra weight, a larger profile, and more stuff you have to buy. I'm not saying you can't play light and in the front with a pistol, just that its a bad idea to hurt every game for something that may happen some day. Honestly I've had one marker malfunction out of all the times I've played, if your having a ton more you probably need to take better care of your marker.

the weight is negligible, and the profile isn't a problem if you plan for it.


See thats where you are wrong. I dunno if someone wants to weight their pistol full of paint, co2, and extra ammo/gas but I'd wager it weighs maybe 5 or 6 pounds. That is a ton of weight, I don't care who you are. Now before anyone jumps to my favorite "maybe you should life weights" argument lets stop and think. Lifting 5 pounds once, maybe even 10, or 20 pounds is not that much but try just holding it up, you will get tired quicker than you would have thoughts. Still don't belive me? Wear a pistol, ammo and everything around your home for about 30 minutes (sitting down doesn't count) and I can promise you will be more tired than just walking around without it. So what does this all mean?

Every calorie that you spend carrying around the pistol for the once a year ordeal is a calorie that you could spend running, sprinting, and jumping. The more calories used in your legs, the higher the buildup of lactic acid, and the sorer you will feel. So sure its not a huge deal, but the answer is it is hurting you more than its helping you unless your marker malfunctions every other day in which case you should probably get a new one.

As for the profile, think about this. Your saying that a guy that weighs 100 lbs and a guy that weighs 300 lbs can both, hide, bend, twist, and move around bunkers the exact same as long as they plan for it? Having a smaller profile allows you to be smaller, and thus cover yourself better. Thats why its so much harder to get gun hits on pump guns cause they are smaller. But hey, thats just my two cents.

6 or 7 pounds? That's a lot? Okay, man. I figure that if my buddies in the marines can carry 80 pounds of gear and run all over God's green earth and still find a way to fight, I can handle a teeny little paintball gun. It's a matter of perception. Maybe it's heavy for you, but last week I was suited up in full camo, carrying 6 pods, and my buddy's heavily modded MR-3, and I was fine. As I stated in my post, if the extra weight is functional, you should use it. If there are people who are good with pistols, it makes sense to have them on the field. If you're good with grenades, take them. You sound like a guy who wants his gun and a couple pods. That probably works fine. I'm a somewhat chubby guy who outruns people half his size, wearing more gear. I can handle a little more weight and still function in the dagger role. Different strokes.
This is an individual decision. I understand the "dagger theory", but it's you out on that field, not anyone else. You have to choose for yourself. Some tripe about lactic acid buildup meant to scare a kid into agreeing with you is irresponsible and misleading. I've read enough of your posts to have a better opinion of you than that. Lactic acid builds up no matter what. 2 extra pounds of weight isn't an appreciable difference. It'd be a better investment to have a better mask that provides improved airflow, if lactic acid buildup is your problem. Or, y'know, weight training and cardio to build aerobic as well as anaerobic tolerance.
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#25 User is offline   tubby ted 

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Posted 04 September 2007 - 02:07 PM

if i have grenades i use them but most of the time i dont have any.
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#26 User is offline   Bielerga 

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Posted 05 September 2007 - 06:37 PM

rightintheface,

I guess I missed your reply before sorry for taking so long to get back to you. I deleted the quotes as the post was starting to get long... Anyways. I love when people try to use the real life military examples about real marines carry 80 pounds of gear and they can fight just fine. Well you know what? If marines could know how long the game is going to be and carry how much ammo they need KNOWING they would be coming home from a set mission without a doubt they would, but they can't its two different things. It has nothing to do with perception and everything to do with strategy.

I don't think I've ever said anyone can't play dagger with a mil-sim marker, tons of paint, a sidearm, a remote line, and more other pointless stuff than they can carry but what I have said, and will continue to say is they are HURTING THEIR DAGGER POTENTIAL BY PREPARING FOR THE 1 in 1000 versus the 999. But you were saying the extra weight was functional, yet I fail to see having a milsim marker and sidearm are practical. They look cool, thats about it.

I don't think you understand my "dagger theory" because you would understand that I've stated numerous times that anyone can play however they want. But the truth is people who want to take their game into the next level have to understand that lighter is better, and start thinking about the equipment they carry onto the field. The trip about lactic acid PROVES the theory using chemistry, what I work with, in a physical environment, what I work in.

And here is where we come to my favorite argument of the pro-mil sim where they try to call me weak / nonathletic / slow where they point out that if I work out I could build my tolerance and physical fitness. If you would like to see some stats of mine I will be more than happy to PM you but were not talking about me. This is where the real beauty of the science lays, regardless of how athletic, or non athletic you are the extra 6 pounds builds more lactic acid and thus will slow you down quicker and make you sore quicker.
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#27 User is offline   XziviT 

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Posted 09 September 2007 - 01:15 PM

Im not dagger but i would use grenades + pistol, thats what i use when i play as commander that is kinda the same equipment of the dagger...

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#28 User is offline   The Scout 

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Posted 16 September 2007 - 06:16 PM

I like using the seat of the pants approach. I have the lightest set-up of any of my friends, VSC Phantom with Ronin Elite slung on my back. If my gun breaks, it hasn't yet just in case anyone's curious, I just make bird calls or something or pray. Ya know have fun with it, if your gun breaks and someone gets you out I just laugh it off and I'm like yeah man, good job. My wallet can't afford for me to spend more money on paintball.

This post has been edited by The Scout: 16 September 2007 - 06:17 PM

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#29 User is offline   rightintheface 

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Posted 19 September 2007 - 07:37 PM

View PostBielerga, on Sep 5 2007, 06:37 PM, said:

rightintheface,

I guess I missed your reply before sorry for taking so long to get back to you. I deleted the quotes as the post was starting to get long... Anyways. I love when people try to use the real life military examples about real marines carry 80 pounds of gear and they can fight just fine. Well you know what? If marines could know how long the game is going to be and carry how much ammo they need KNOWING they would be coming home from a set mission without a doubt they would, but they can't its two different things. It has nothing to do with perception and everything to do with strategy.

I don't think I've ever said anyone can't play dagger with a mil-sim marker, tons of paint, a sidearm, a remote line, and more other pointless stuff than they can carry but what I have said, and will continue to say is they are HURTING THEIR DAGGER POTENTIAL BY PREPARING FOR THE 1 in 1000 versus the 999. But you were saying the extra weight was functional, yet I fail to see having a milsim marker and sidearm are practical. They look cool, thats about it.

I don't think you understand my "dagger theory" because you would understand that I've stated numerous times that anyone can play however they want. But the truth is people who want to take their game into the next level have to understand that lighter is better, and start thinking about the equipment they carry onto the field. The trip about lactic acid PROVES the theory using chemistry, what I work with, in a physical environment, what I work in.

And here is where we come to my favorite argument of the pro-mil sim where they try to call me weak / nonathletic / slow where they point out that if I work out I could build my tolerance and physical fitness. If you would like to see some stats of mine I will be more than happy to PM you but were not talking about me. This is where the real beauty of the science lays, regardless of how athletic, or non athletic you are the extra 6 pounds builds more lactic acid and thus will slow you down quicker and make you sore quicker.

My point with the military isn't that you should carry all sorts of extra junk as a just in case, but that those guys CAN perform with a great deal of weight, and thus the 10-15 pounds of total weight in a gearkit is pretty negligible. I guarantee if you strapped 5 pistols to me, I'd still do just fine in a dagger role. I understand your response in the context of the purity of a dagger role, but there are plenty of situations where other stuff can/would be useful. Of COURSE you're going to primarily use your main marker. But 2 weeks ago I had serious barrel breaking issues (field made me use crappy field paint...I won't be playing there again.) When my gun was doing nothing but splatter painting the ground 2 feet in front of me, I'd have LOVED to have had a pistol (and I intend to soon...my new job as a ref will be supplementing my funds.).

Regardless, if you're a 90 pound kid that gets tired carrying your marker, maybe a pistol or some grenades aren't for you. As a 200 pound guy in reasonably good shape, I do just fine carrying all sorts of stuff, lactic acid be darned.

That said, please don't try to throw science in my face. I know about lactic acid. We probably have comparable education. I also know that lactic acid or no, I can haul 200 pounds of me plus my marker 50 yards up the field at the start of each match and outrun guys half my weight, I can dive between bunkers, I can jump, roll, I can literally hurdle bunkers, etc. And I can do it multiple times per day. Now, maybe I have more lactic acid at the end, but I'm doing just fine. I'm nothing special, especially in the world of paintball, but I can get the job done. Would I carry a pistol onto a speedball field? Nope. But I'll gladly carry it into the woods.

edit: incidentally, I'm not "pro-mil-sim". I primarily use a PMR with an UL frame, and a VL Evo III loader. Fairly speedball-worthy gun. That said, I'm going to have lots of fun with my T9. And I don't care if it isn't quite as high-performance. Sometimes, in my friendly neighborhood games, fun is important too.

This post has been edited by rightintheface: 19 September 2007 - 07:39 PM

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#30 User is offline   jtpaintball70 

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Posted 19 September 2007 - 07:42 PM

I used to carry a pistol or nades, but after D-Day 07, I discovered I like my superlight gear kit when I'm just carrying my Phantom and tubes (big scenario events I use a 3.5 instead of 12gs)
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