Special Ops Paintball: Daggers vs. Speedballers - Special Ops Paintball

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Daggers vs. Speedballers What to do when facing a horde of Power Ranger shooting at 25bps Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   Enzo 

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Post icon  Posted 09 May 2007 - 06:21 PM

Due to the lack of Woodsball fields around here, Sometimes I've had to play somekind of RecBall or HyperBall, but lately I've been facing Speedball players in their own territories: Speedball courts. After the pain of learning those weird names like Doritos Cans, and some others. I Started playing.

I kept the strategy. Snapshoot, locate targets, Get angles and everything Light Infantry does. Everything was going smooth, my team lost some, won some, and lost some more. But actually, my cover fire sucked! And Communications, well, the only thing paying attention to what I said was the freaking Dorito in front of me. So I had a lotto time to think and I realized a couple of thing while getting paint all over my face:

1.- DryFire: These guys are bunkering maniacs, so at first sight of a harmless innocent man, they'll try to pull it off. Just DryFire, wait a couple of seconds and then Snapshot. It may not be that Honest, but it Works.

2.-Strong Side. Send most of the team to one side, and a small portion to the other just to cover few angles. They never saw it coming! Was the only strategy that actually worked :P .

3.- Unleash Hell!!! At one call Every player besides Daggers begins Supression fire and Daggers move up front. It's very simple and moderate helpful but hearing the call really gets you in the mood: UNLEASH HELL!!!! (Add a War cry while you move upfront, It's Shocking for the other team :laugh: )

They are simple Technics We pulled off that day, I think they might as well be used somewhere else. But I Still am courious.
HOW MUST A DAGGER FACE SPEEDBALL PLAYERS?????? Any IDEAs?
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#2 User is offline   BlueDragonX 

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Posted 09 May 2007 - 08:10 PM

What?

Aside from that, it is my esteemed opinion that (and I'm sure everyone will hate me for this) there is no difference between speedball and woodsball aside from the type of cover and size of the field available to you. The same techniques and maneuvers still apply, you just have to be flexible enough to apply them the different environments.

I'm primarily a woodsballer. Not to toot my own horn, but I'm pretty good at woodsball. The last two weekends I played close to nothing except speedball. Did I suck because I'm a woodsball player? No, I did pretty darned good, actually. I did good because I was able to apply what I know about paintball in the woods to the situations I ran into on the speedball field. True, it can be difficult at first. My suggestion would be to watch a lot of Tyger's Web Dog Radio howto vids.

And don't be afraid to use what you learn in speedball in the woods, either!

This post has been edited by BlueDragonX: 09 May 2007 - 08:13 PM


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#3 User is offline   Dark Shadow Hunter 

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Posted 09 May 2007 - 08:16 PM

Very true BlueDragon, very true indeed.

Also your avatar kind seems to fit with this thread. I do not mean to flame or bash if it sounds that way. However Paintball is paintball no matter what type of terrain you are on. Not all speedballers are bunkering maniacs. Yes in the tournaments there are more bunker moves and high rates of fire. However at my home field you still see a lot of mechanical markers being used on the speedball fields. The mechs do quite well against the mouse clickers. Yes it may seem as though all they are doing is spraying and praying, but they are just applying team tactics in a game format with more open ground and traditionally smaller fields than in woodsball.
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#4 User is offline   blackraven64 

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Posted 09 May 2007 - 08:30 PM

if you were to send most of your players to one side the other team will most likely tear apart your weak side and then take over the stronger side with the new angles and positions.

Also the only time I would dry-fire on purpose is when i'm out of paint.Even then any smart player would soon figure out that you're not shooting paint and bunker you.

One of the most important things in a game of speedball is the break.Always have around 3-4 guns up off the break and attempt to take all the key bunkers.From there you just need to snapshoot and move up when you get the oppurtunity to.
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#5 User is offline   ghostinthewood 

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Posted 09 May 2007 - 08:35 PM

View PostEnzo, on May 9 2007, 06:21 PM, said:

1.- DryFire: These guys are bunkering maniacs, so at first sight of a harmless innocent man, they'll try to pull it off. Just DryFire, wait a couple of seconds and then Snapshot. It may not be that Honest, but it Works.

Or they'll just think you have a crappy hopper or you take them for an idiot.

2.-Strong Side. Send most of the team to one side, and a small portion to the other just to cover few angles. They never saw it coming! Was the only strategy that actually worked :D .

Strong sides works for everyone, nothign new there.

3.- Unleash Hell!!! At one call Every player besides Daggers begins Supression fire and Daggers move up front. It's very simple and moderate helpful but hearing the call really gets you in the mood: UNLEASH HELL!!!! (Add a War cry while you move upfront, It's Shocking for the other team :P )

If all you di is surpess and move up than somone can sit tight in a bunker and look across the field and hold their lane. Or, espcially if you have slow guns, then they could pick up a pattern and snap out. It wouldnt be too hard to snap on somone whos yelling their head off.

They are simple Technics We pulled off that day, I think they might as well be used somewhere else. But I Still am courious.
HOW MUST A DAGGER FACE SPEEDBALL PLAYERS?????? Any IDEAs?

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#6 User is offline   Enzo 

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Posted 09 May 2007 - 08:36 PM

Actually, I agree with you: Paintball is Paintball, no matter if you stand behind a tree or a Inflatable Giant Doll. I've seen Web Dog Radio, dude, How does he do such a good show? Thanks SpecOps for bringing him back
I love Woodsball, dinamic and versatile, so is Speedball, And yeah, I think i may have stereotyped a bunch of those speedballers, right? Don't want to make the same mistake many people do: wich is better discussions. nope, not me.

Well, i think the REAL Question would be about Extreme Close Quarters Combats. Fire against Fire, Fronts vs. Fronts, Daggers fighting DAggers, and a lot of spraying coming from almost anywhere.

How to act against excesive supression fire? Sprint to where? How much how fast? Altough I think those are skills you learn in the field, It would be nice to get some tips.

From a Proud Pro/Carbine owner: Thanks, mates
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#7 User is offline   ghostinthewood 

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Posted 09 May 2007 - 09:05 PM

Surpression is easy depending on how and why its done. If its done for the sole purpose of having somone avdance on you then play tight to your bunker and look across the field. Somone is bound to run into your lane if they're moving up in mass. A lot of times you can just snap out left and right, high and low.

Now as far as how fast goes, if its intense than a sprint should be just that. I play really methodical myself so although I make a lot of slides, I dont have to dive much. Get my man behind his bunker and then bump. However, I sprint a lot. I should, I run the 100m dash for Track, the shortest race we have.

How much depends heavily on the situation. My friend and I often will run the full length of a speedball field at the beginning of a game, but thats very situational. General rule of thumb though is 3 seconds. If you can get there in 3 seconds, then you can probably make it. Thats general rule of thumb though. Its probably less now with a capped, but steady, 15bps standard.

Paintball is a lot about territory and angles. Woods we think of hills, brush we can hide in, bases with props, etc. Speed has bunkers that have specific purposes as well, but its more on angles. Thats why its important to walk the field. You have to know where you can get blindsighted and where you can blindsight others. If you have to move, what area would force you to move the most and wheres a bunker that has a good angle, but is fairly close.

Aggressiveness is a double edged sword. There have been a lot of games where a team has just ran at us and we've laned them off the break. Othertimes teams will get comfortable in the and we'll take the whole field.

A good example, and one I just love thinking about, is this two on two. My best friend and I vs. this guy who acuses me of cheating and his friend (whos cool). My friend stayed back and so did his, we were both taking up the same side of the field. I went just past my 30 and he was going to try and slide into the 50. Right before he got there my friend laned him out and right before he started his actual slide until he called himself out we were bother on him. His friend didnt see us. I ran up and took the 50 and posted up on his friend and my bud took off from our back right, to theirs and shot him out. Total game time, 25seconds. Of course theres a huge teamwork factor involed too. We have worked together enough we know what each other will do and such so once I took the 50 my bud was already on his way.

So in a nutshell, just play ball.
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#8 User is offline   Tolgak 

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Posted 09 May 2007 - 09:20 PM

I hate to sound all cocky and everything, but if you know what you're doing in the woods, rec speedball is absurdly easy. All it takes is getting used to the environment and removing any prejudices you might have against the other side of the game (not saying you have any, but it does play a big part in being successful).

The rest is realizing that players' tendencies are similar between woods and speed. The average player doesn't think of popping out of both sides of cover, or using paint only when necessary, or moving from the first bunker he got to. Speedballers tend to be more brave in the latter point but other than that, it's all the same outside of tournaments.

It would also help that you didn't wear a vest. Unless you're planning to lay some heavy paint, a single hopper should do. And loosing the vest will make you sprint a whole lot faster. You need that mobility on those fields.

Upon doing the above, and discovering a gun (Phantom) that I am extremely comfortable with, I do pretty well in speedball games. Every game I come across at least 1 and often 2 or 3 exposed flanks that are insanely easy to take out (if I don't get shot during the breakout).

I actually have a tougher time in the woods because of how much more complicated it is to move through brush than it is a groomed field.
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#9 User is offline   BlueDragonX 

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Posted 09 May 2007 - 09:50 PM

Well, here's my take on suppression in the differing environments of speedball and woodsball. More often the reason you see people shoot so much in speedball is not because they're making up for accuracy with volume but rather because suppression fire in speedball is much more effective. When there's nothing between your bunker and your opponents bunker to block your shots then laying paint on the bunker is very effective at keeping heads down. Your opponent knows this, too. There's nothing to stop those paintballs if he sticks his head out. Woodsball, by contrast, has quite a bit of cover. This additional cover reduces the effectiveness of suppression fire. If I need to move from a bunker and there's trees, bushes, etc. between me and my opponent then I'm going to be much more confident of my abilities to make it out of my bunker without getting hit. My opponent knows this and so will not lay nearly as much paint on my bunker but instead will try harder to get a more advantageous angle on me.

That's just my take on the situation. I'm not afraid to lay quantities of paint on a bunker in woodsball if I feel it's to my advantage. On the same token, I won't put paint on a bunker in speedball if I don't think it's going to be effective.

Also, next time you see experienced speedballers play, pay attention to how much paint each of their players puts out. Generally you'll find that their back and mid men are putting out more paint than the guys in the front. Sounds a log like Broadswords, Sabers, and Daggers, doesn't it? The front guys - if they're good - are more interested in moving that trading paint.

And remember, kids, keep an open mind!

This post has been edited by BlueDragonX: 09 May 2007 - 09:51 PM


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#10 User is offline   Ry and Raft 

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Posted 09 May 2007 - 10:08 PM

Quote

I hate to sound all cocky and everything, but if you know what you're doing in the woods, rec speedball is absurdly easy. All it takes is getting used to the environment and removing any prejudices you might have against the other side of the game (not saying you have any, but it does play a big part in being successful).

The rest is realizing that players' tendencies are similar between woods and speed. The average player doesn't think of popping out of both sides of cover, or using paint only when necessary, or moving from the first bunker he got to. Speedballers tend to be more brave in the latter point but other than that, it's all the same outside of tournaments.

This is truth.

The Tourney kids I play with, the only difference between them and a Woodsball, is they're cocky as hell. They were playing the walk-on guys in the woods with above average success. They still didn't know the concept of out maneuvering your opponent. So, I end up taking the vantage, and running risky solo flanking maneuvers. Ones that usually work because everyone is too caught up in the vain, and outdistanced firefight.
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#11 Guest_Jester3_*

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Posted 10 May 2007 - 08:00 AM

1. That will get you shot far more than it will work against more experienced players.

2. Once again, experienced speedball players will rip that to shreds.

3. You should be providing "suppression fire" the entire game, not just on a single call mid-way through the game.

You're putting way way too much SO marketing into your gameplan, just watch some games and pay attention what works for them and put what you learned to work.
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#12 User is offline   Jonas 

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Posted 10 May 2007 - 10:55 AM

Not to say I like speedball. (It's not that bad actually, but woodsball is my domain) But playing speedball when you are mostly a dagger is a great way to get better at woodsball, because it's the tight and fast action that a dagger lives on.

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Posted 10 May 2007 - 11:05 AM

I don't treat any paintball player differently. In my eyes they are there for one reason...to shoot me out of the game. Its just that some players have different tactics on how to do so. If the player is better than me I should expect them to shoot me out the first few games, but after that I normally start to catch onto their playing style and then can counter what they do..but hey..thats just me lol
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#14 User is offline   Jonas 

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Posted 10 May 2007 - 11:07 AM

I have a player like that at my field. I just can't seem to counter anything he does.
Luckily he only sticks to the speedball field.
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#15 User is offline   ghostinthewood 

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 10:10 PM

View PostBlueDragonX, on May 9 2007, 09:50 PM, said:

Well, here's my take on suppression in the differing environments of speedball and woodsball. More often the reason you see people shoot so much in speedball is not because they're making up for accuracy with volume but rather because suppression fire in speedball is much more effective. When there's nothing between your bunker and your opponents bunker to block your shots then laying paint on the bunker is very effective at keeping heads down. Your opponent knows this, too. There's nothing to stop those paintballs if he sticks his head out. Woodsball, by contrast, has quite a bit of cover. This additional cover reduces the effectiveness of suppression fire. If I need to move from a bunker and there's trees, bushes, etc. between me and my opponent then I'm going to be much more confident of my abilities to make it out of my bunker without getting hit. My opponent knows this and so will not lay nearly as much paint on my bunker but instead will try harder to get a more advantageous angle on me.

That's just my take on the situation. I'm not afraid to lay quantities of paint on a bunker in woodsball if I feel it's to my advantage. On the same token, I won't put paint on a bunker in speedball if I don't think it's going to be effective.

Also, next time you see experienced speedballers play, pay attention to how much paint each of their players puts out. Generally you'll find that their back and mid men are putting out more paint than the guys in the front. Sounds a log like Broadswords, Sabers, and Daggers, doesn't it? The front guys - if they're good - are more interested in moving that trading paint.

And remember, kids, keep an open mind!

Well really, especially now, the reason isnt so much supression as it is lanes. Watch the break of some speed games. Most teams will have a couple guys taking off toward sthe snake or 30-50 while everyone else is gunnin. If you dont gain ground, especially in speed, you loose angles. So one of the most important things is to move. So, throw some paint where you dont want somone to go to because it has a good angle so if they do try and get the upper hand, they're gone.
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