Special Ops Paintball: Force Fed Hopper Rule in the SPPL - Special Ops Paintball

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Force Fed Hopper Rule in the SPPL Time for change?

#16 User is offline   empiregeneral 

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 10:59 AM

I love the format of the SPPL and look foward to competeing in it for my first time this year. This seems to be one of the best leagues available escpecially for woodsballers, but I think the allowment of other force fed hoppers would be a definate improvement.
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#17 User is offline   Tiger 

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 11:19 AM

As a member of a team that competed in the SPPL last year I want to express our support for leaving the rules on the hoppers as they are. Our team uses several versions of Matrix, Shockers, and even 'Cockers for the SPPL. None had any issues with the hopper limitations affecting our markers. At the DDay qual, or the Finals later. Anybody having issues with this rule 'limiting' your weaponry or affecting whether you attend an event- play in one first. See how the games go, and then decide. I think you will find that it isn't as big a deal as it's being made to appear.
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#18 User is offline   Bielerga 

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 12:29 PM

Wow, I just saw tiger and went to read what I thought tyger had to say about this issue... The answer is people can get around it no matter what is done, but if your shooting a gun that can only get 5 bps it shouldn't matter what type of hopper you have. Besides, anyone shooting 15 bps wont be able to do it for to long.
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#19 User is offline   Lomarandil 

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 12:32 PM

Right. Definately play these rules before you start disagreeing with them. (I don't know how many of the people in this thread have or have not played, except for the ones I played against or who have said they have not played the format).

Yes. It is possible for mechanical markers, especially electrically/pnuematically assisted sear trippers (Espyders, Pnuemags and such) to break the limit. Theoretically. But this takes quite a bit of work in all of the cases I've seen, and even then there often isn't any way to reliably ensure you won't chop paint. Whereas, in the case of electropneumatic markers, the adjustment is fairly simple (drop in a board or adjust a switch before game on).

Now, I have to say I'd trust the guys I played with at the OK qualifier to keep their fingers/guns/boards or whatever capped at 15.. But I can't say that about the general paintball population. I honestly just can't.

As it stands, the hopper restriction is a very simple way to allow the organizers of the event to limit the firepower for safety and gameplay concerns. It doesn't require dozens of ball counting chronos or any sort of robot, it doesn't require refs to open up and check EVERY marker before a round to make sure the tourney lock is on and actually works right, it saves a lot of manpower.

Also, I'd like to contend, that in the SPPL format, having a boost from 12 bps with a revvy to 15bps isn't a huge advantage. Generally, they'll do the same thing.

But if you are still wanting to play SPPL, you have some options.

If you want to consistantly feed that 15bps on an electro, put a Qloader on it (per the BRWP that just came out). Although beware that you still will likely be shadowed by refs for safety concerns, as this could possibly go over 15bps, you will have that consistant 15.

If you can't afford a new hopper (which I don't understand if you are spending $500 on reg, planning to go through more than a case of paint by shooting that 15bps, and travel costs, not to mention that you have already bought a several hundred dollar electro-pnuematic), use a gravity feed! If you are at the point where ONLY shooting 8bps is going to kill you.. I don't know what to say.

If you want to use your HALO or whatever, use a mech. Once again, that may drop you to 12bps, but is that really so much of a difference?

I don't understand this whole argument. In every case I've seen, 12-15 bps has done the job at hand. Why push for more?

But above all this.. whatever course you take, the SPPL is not worth missing because you can't use your Halo on a matrix. Use a pump for what that is worth. Just play it.

Lo

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#20 User is offline   G4 

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 12:42 PM

Agreed. Not playing the event over this rule is in no way worth it.

I don't agree with your statement that making a mech shoot over the 15 bps limit is somehow and involved, more difficult process than an electro however. All you have to do an A-5 is put a QEV and an E-Grip on and there you have it. No problem on breaking the limit.

And why should everyone NOT be checked at the chrono for a game? We check the velocity, why not check the bps? It would take about an extra 10 seconds at most, not much manpower involved.

As for buying a new hopper, it's not about affording a new hopper. Yes, most people who compete in the SPPL can probably afford a new hopper. But why should we? Really, it seems like a biased rule to me against electro pneumatic guns. And I see no reason why mech guns should not have to fall under the EXACT same specifications that electros do.

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This post has been edited by G4: 19 February 2007 - 12:43 PM


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#21 User is offline   vbg17 

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 12:55 PM

I dont think we are arguing the ability to shoot at or over 15 bps. For me I would like to use a reliable hopper that I understand how to fix and work on. I would like to use a marker that I am comfortable with.

"Yes. It is possible for mechanical markers, especially electrically/pnuematically assisted sear trippers (Espyders, Pnuemags and such) to break the limit. Theoretically. But this takes quite a bit of work in all of the cases I've seen,"
And just because we worked for our gun(to earn money to buy it) vs them working on their gun(adding upgrades) doesnt make one or the other easier to cheat with.

I dont understand why they allow these guns to use whatever hopper they want and limit the electros. If your going to limit hoppors limit them on every single marker. No A5s because they have a forcefed hopper with an advertised rate of over 15. No q loaders because they have an advertised feed rate over 15. If you wont allow them on electros dont allow them on anything.

Just to calm things down after my rant, I would like to say I love the format and the appreciate the people for their time they devote to putting on great events.

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#22 User is offline   Lomarandil 

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 01:00 PM

View PostG4, on Feb 19 2007, 12:42 PM, said:

Agreed. Not playing the event over this rule is in no way worth it.

I don't agree with your statement that making a mech shoot over the 15 bps limit is somehow and involved, more difficult process than an electro however. All you have to do an A-5 is put a QEV and an E-Grip on and there you have it. No problem on breaking the limit.

And why should everyone NOT be checked at the chrono for a game? We check the velocity, why not check the bps? It would take about an extra 10 seconds at most, not much manpower involved.

As for buying a new hopper, it's not about affording a new hopper. Yes, most people who compete in the SPPL can probably afford a new hopper. But why should we? Really, it seems like a biased rule to me against electro pneumatic guns. And I see no reason why mech guns should not have to fall under the EXACT same specifications that electros do.

G4


My apologies, I somehow (boy, this was bad) didn't think of the A-5 when I wrote that. However, does the cyclone still feed reliably at over 15bps? I thought I had read that it tended to jam or chop. Maybe that isn't the case.

Right. Checking bps before the game wouldn't be incredibly difficult, but checking bps on field would be tougher, even with the number of refs the SPPL has.

And I suppose that the rules are slightly biased towards mechanical markers, in that it is easier to reach that 15bps cap, however, this is part of the game play balance, I believe..

Above all though, I don't want this turning into an arms race.

Lo

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#23 User is offline   G4 

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 01:08 PM

Yes, the A-5 can do pretty dang well at about 25 bps with a QEV, a vortex can help sometimes as well. Really I think that the CAP should be enforced, rather than trying to make it "easier" for the league by not allowing force fed hoppers. I definitely do not want anyone, regardless of the type of marker that they use, to be trying to break the cap as it is not only dangerous but just plain retarded if you ask me. I just want to be able to use the gear that I have come to be comfortable with and know how to use well.

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#24 User is offline   MillardFlemming 

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 01:11 PM

whare can i find the revision that says i can use qloaders?

i also agree with everything thats been said. put my name on the list in the first post.

This post has been edited by MillardFlemming: 19 February 2007 - 01:09 PM

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#25 User is offline   G4 

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 01:13 PM

http://clickcaster.com/blastradius

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#26 User is offline   MillardFlemming 

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 01:18 PM

View PostG4, on Feb 19 2007, 01:13 PM, said:


thanx. that really improves things. im savin for an sp-8 w/ a qloader. i almost stopped saving cause i would'nt be able to use it.
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#27 User is offline   UWANNAGO 

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 01:21 PM

I havent liked this rule since I read about it when the league was starting. Im not sure but isnt the DT allowed and thats putting out well over 15 bps. Well even though its 2 guns its one person shooting that much paint.

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#28 User is offline   ION KING 

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 01:35 PM

I would love to play in the sppl but I only have a pulse now and I don't want to buy a new hopper to play in the sppl.
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#29 User is offline   beaker 

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 02:21 PM

View PostUWANNAGO, on Feb 19 2007, 03:21 PM, said:

I havent liked this rule since I read about it when the league was starting. Im not sure but isnt the DT allowed and thats putting out well over 15 bps. Well even though its 2 guns its one person shooting that much paint.

Peace,
UWANNAGO




It's an exotic. That's why you're allowed 30 bps (15 bps x 2 different markers). The rules allow for those.



And Ion King, if you can afford a pulse, you can probably pick up a Revy off eBay for cheap. Or just rent a 98.



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#30 User is offline   8-Ball 

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 02:59 PM

In a perfect world the SPPL would have a dozen refs per field, each with a chrono/BPS gun. (remember folks we're talking a WOODED 4-7 acres of land per field here.) and we would ONLY have a 15BPS safety limit across the board.

BUT last season was only it's second year of existance and a balance between costs, manpower and what equipment could be effectively policed had to be struck just to allow a change in the rules that allowed electros to fit this format to begin with.

The only way this league will ever approach that "perfect world" capability however is for players to get out and compete in the Qualifiers. For the SPPL to continue the type of growth it has seen in it's mere TWO years of existence.

So get out there and play, keep giving Rory and Jan your feedback, and hopefully someday soon the league will have the resources to dedicate to keep this format as much fun as it has shown us it can be.

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