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#1 User is offline   Silvrdog 

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 05:00 AM

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THE HAGUE, Netherlands - Mexico made an emergency appeal to the U.N.'s highest court Thursday to block the execution of its citizens on death row in the U.S.

Mexico's chief advocate Juan Manuel Gomez-Robledo said the U.S. was "in breach of its international obligations" by disregarding a 2004 judgment by the U.N.'s International Court of Justice, which ruled Mexicans were denied the right to consular advice after their arrests, as guaranteed by an international treaty.

The court, informally known as the World Court, has ruled that the Mexicans were entitled to "review and reconsideration" of their trials and sentences to determine whether the violation of the 1963 Vienna Convention affected their cases.

President Bush accepted the judgment and asked state courts to review the cases.

Texas refused, and the issue went to the U.S. Supreme Court, which ruled last March by a 6-3 vote that Bush lacked the authority to compel state courts to comply with the judgment from The Hague. The Vienna Convention cannot be binding on the states unless Congress enacts legislation enforcing it as federal law, the Supreme Court said.

Mexico asked the World Court for an "interpretation" of its earlier ruling to clarify what it meant when it asked the U.S. to "review and reconsider" the cases of the condemned prisoners, and in the meantime to order the halt of the execution timetable.

Gomez-Robledo said that without urgent action now, five Mexican nationals "will be executed before the conclusion of these proceedings."

U.S. representatives were due to respond later Thursday before the 13-member tribunal.

Sandra Babcock, representing Mexico, said the World Court's decision four years ago referred to 51 Mexican nationals. Since then, 33 had sought reviews of their cases in state courts.

Only one request was granted, Babcock said. A second inmate accepted a life sentence in exchange for waiving his claim for a review.

"All other efforts to enforce the judgment have failed," she said.

Mexico listed five of its citizens slated to die. The first, on Aug. 5, is Jose Medellin, 33, condemned in the gang rape and murder of two teenage girls 15 years ago.

Texas authorities have said Medellin's case has been reviewed by state and federal courts and that he had been given the same right as any American citizen.

But Mexico said in its appeal to the World Court that the U.S. obligation to follow international law also applies to individual states. "The United States cannot invoke municipal law as justification for failure to perform its international legal obligations," it said.

The International Court of Justice is the U.N.'s judicial arm for resolving legal disputes among member states. Its decisions are binding and not subject to appeal, and only rarely have they been defied. Though it has no power of enforcement, the court can report any failure to abide by its decisions to the Security Council.

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#2 User is offline   MurderDeathKill 

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 05:38 AM

BOINK mexico! (jk, jk...)


I see where they're coming from -- in a legal sense they should make this precedent clear. But if they really want to enforce it, then they damn well better start holding up THEIR end of international law -- you can guess which one I'm talking about (deals with Migration. Give up? Immigration.) I say we ignore the hell out of them until they post border patrols.

This post has been edited by MurderDeathKill: 19 June 2008 - 05:39 AM

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#3 User is offline   Ashrak 

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 07:28 AM

^What he said.

Mexico can't lecture me on the morality of the state.

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#4 User is offline   Gilla 

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 08:15 AM

Let's hold an amnesty day. All illegal immigrants must leave by this date, when we ship the death row inmates back to mexico, after that you will be killed on sight. "You're a US Citizen, here is your rifle, have a nice day."

Sorry, I'm a little grumpy today.

Edit: And Techniquely, only Texas is violating the treaty, the other states are complying.
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#5 User is offline   Silvrdog 

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 08:46 AM

Why should we the United States answer to Mexico or to the U.N.?
Those immigrants that have committed crimes in the United States should be punished my United States Law, not the country that the immigrants fled from.

I am from Germany, should I if I have committed a crime be punished by German Law or the United States Law?

Mexico is wrong.
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#6 User is offline   Philipp122 

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 09:47 AM

View PostSilvrdog, on Jun 19 2008, 11:46 AM, said:

I am from Germany, should I if I have committed a crime be punished by German Law or the United States Law?


So am I, and that presents an excellent example about following the law of your country of residence: I'm not a U.S. citizen. I'm a German citizen. In Germany, the drinking age is 16 for minor alcohol (beer, wine, etc.) and 18 for heavy liquor (Bacardi, vodka, etc.). I'm 18 years old. Say I get caught running around town with a bottle of vodka in my hand and I'm immediately arrested for possession. Then, I try to take it to court and tell them that my country of citizenship allows me to possess and drink at the age of 18. Honestly, who would win that case?

If I'm a resident in AMEIRCA, I should have to follow AMERICAN laws and policies. If I break a law, I should be punished using the AMERICAN law system. Imagine if America allowed non-citizen immigrants from Germany to possess and drink heavy liquor at the age of 18. That's completely unfair and unjust. Residents in America MUST follow American policies and laws and MUST be punished by the AMERICAN legal system. Doing it any other way isn't fair or just.

Mexico is wrong, America is right. Why the hell should they be treated differently because they have a different country of citizenship? They broke the law, they pay the price, end of story.

This post has been edited by Philipp122: 19 June 2008 - 09:48 AM

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#7 User is offline   WardenWolf 

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 11:00 AM

Someone tell Mexico to fix their own country before they complain about others. Considering that they've repeatedly proven it's impossible for them to form any government that's not rotten at the core, they need to just shove it.

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#8 User is offline   SOLIDUS SNAKE 

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 11:26 AM

Go texas and the supreme court
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#9 User is offline   STAZ211 

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 12:34 PM

View PostPhilipp122, on Jun 19 2008, 12:47 PM, said:

View PostSilvrdog, on Jun 19 2008, 11:46 AM, said:

I am from Germany, should I if I have committed a crime be punished by German Law or the United States Law?


So am I, and that presents an excellent example about following the law of your country of residence: I'm not a U.S. citizen. I'm a German citizen. In Germany, the drinking age is 16 for minor alcohol (beer, wine, etc.) and 18 for heavy liquor (Bacardi, vodka, etc.). I'm 18 years old. Say I get caught running around town with a bottle of vodka in my hand and I'm immediately arrested for possession. Then, I try to take it to court and tell them that my country of citizenship allows me to possess and drink at the age of 18. Honestly, who would win that case?

If I'm a resident in AMEIRCA, I should have to follow AMERICAN laws and policies. If I break a law, I should be punished using the AMERICAN law system. Imagine if America allowed non-citizen immigrants from Germany to possess and drink heavy liquor at the age of 18. That's completely unfair and unjust. Residents in America MUST follow American policies and laws and MUST be punished by the AMERICAN legal system. Doing it any other way isn't fair or just.

Mexico is wrong, America is right. Why the hell should they be treated differently because they have a different country of citizenship? They broke the law, they pay the price, end of story.


i totaly agree. i doubt if i were to go to Russia or China and commit a crime that i would be able to avoid penalty by saying im a citizen of another country. i think that id be seeing the inside of a 8x5 prision cell in Bejing for a very long time...

Mexico is wrong, and for reasons of me not wanting to get banned, i will not comment on the country of Mexico or its inability to do....well...anything...
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#10 User is offline   MurderDeathKill 

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 02:28 PM

View PostSTAZ211, on Jun 19 2008, 01:34 PM, said:

View PostPhilipp122, on Jun 19 2008, 12:47 PM, said:

View PostSilvrdog, on Jun 19 2008, 11:46 AM, said:

I am from Germany, should I if I have committed a crime be punished by German Law or the United States Law?


So am I, and that presents an excellent example about following the law of your country of residence: I'm not a U.S. citizen. I'm a German citizen. In Germany, the drinking age is 16 for minor alcohol (beer, wine, etc.) and 18 for heavy liquor (Bacardi, vodka, etc.). I'm 18 years old. Say I get caught running around town with a bottle of vodka in my hand and I'm immediately arrested for possession. Then, I try to take it to court and tell them that my country of citizenship allows me to possess and drink at the age of 18. Honestly, who would win that case?

If I'm a resident in AMEIRCA, I should have to follow AMERICAN laws and policies. If I break a law, I should be punished using the AMERICAN law system. Imagine if America allowed non-citizen immigrants from Germany to possess and drink heavy liquor at the age of 18. That's completely unfair and unjust. Residents in America MUST follow American policies and laws and MUST be punished by the AMERICAN legal system. Doing it any other way isn't fair or just.

Mexico is wrong, America is right. Why the hell should they be treated differently because they have a different country of citizenship? They broke the law, they pay the price, end of story.


i totaly agree. i doubt if i were to go to Russia or China and commit a crime that i would be able to avoid penalty by saying im a citizen of another country. i think that id be seeing the inside of a 8x5 prision cell in Bejing for a very long time...

Mexico is wrong, and for reasons of me not wanting to get banned, i will not comment on the country of Mexico or its inability to do....well...anything...

Here's where I'm gonna play devil's advocate. There is 100% definitely legal precedent for extraditing prisoners to their nation of origin. The US argues that all the time. The Simpsons parodied one of the more famous instances, in which an American kid was sentenced to "Booting" by Singapore. American officials went absolutely bonkers over this. So it's unfair for us to turn around and say, "Hey, you have to abide by OUR rules while you're over here." Mexico DOES have a point there.

The key difference -- and I emphasize this -- is that we're now talking about illegal immigrants. If Mexico wants their prisoners back, then they should tell us the prisoner's Visa number, and we oughta ship them back right then and there. But there's not a legal precedent (that I'm aware of) which states that sex crime/murder offenders who are also illegal immigrants get sent home. So on that note, BOINK you Mexico, these are OUR prisoners now, and if you want the next batch back, then you better hold them to the laws you're holding us to. Otherwise, I have absolutely no remorse.
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#11 User is offline   STAZ211 

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 04:08 PM

^well put
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