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Rec-ball - woodsball field rules RULES (and radicals)THAT IRRITATE YOU MOST Rate Topic: ***** 1 Votes

#46 User is offline   MadMaverick 

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 09:06 AM

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It used to be that you had to chrono and get a piece of tape that said you were chronoed. And mid-day, you had to chrono again. Some fields do an even better job by doing random chrono checks on the field with hand helds.


Id forgotten all about that! so simple, why did we get away from that? Its such a simple solution, and all but guarantees chronograph discipline. another option would be to punch holes in the paper "yes i paid to be here" bracelets if the field uses those. but the answer is simple, implimenting it does take a bit of work on the fields part, but once established, players will be reminding staff when they forget to bring out the chrono. Thats a safety culture you want!

Its the little stuff that makes the day, having water available drink or to wash up / cool down with, convenient chronos and a good safety culture, clear directions, field rules, etc. these are the things that make an average field into a great field... I dont care if your field only has three pallets on each side and a couple of felled trees for cover, im still going to have fun if im not stressing over the bs stuff. Oh, and if your teenage ref gets a "fear me, I am god here" attitude, please slap him/her in the head so hard he or she does a flip... (okay, just threaten to, dont actually do it.) They need to be firm, fair and consistent, and respectful, always, with zero exceptions.
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#47 User is offline   I.K.E. 

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 04:00 PM

Nice contribution MadMav! I agree with all of that.

Last commercial field I played at, when I reported hot shooters to the owner, he shrugged it off. Probably won't be back there anytime soon.
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#48 User is offline   Incognito 

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 04:30 AM

I have a couple big pet peeves about fields.

The first is when the refs enforce safety but not the rules. Great, no one is shooting hot and everyone wears their goggles. But then you have a bunch of people wiping and no ref cares about it. I played a scenario once where they strictly enforced safety, but everyone wiped all day and no ref did anything about it. That seriously ticks me off, especially when I'm using a pump and only hit people once.

The second pet peeve is when fields refuse to split teams up. This is usually a refs call. I've played games where you have a team full of newbies, walk-ons, and maybe a couple experienced players; and then the other team is a team the plays together often and knows how to work together. I understand they may want the practice and may not wanna be split up, but it needs to happen. It's no fun getting beaten every single game because of the teams being really one-sided.

That's all I got for now.
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#49 User is offline   chasbronson 

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 08:15 PM

View PostMadMaverick, on 26 April 2011 - 09:13 AM, said:

new here, but not to paintball, and this is a GREAT topic, and some awesome input. ill add my 2 cents and apologize in advance for length, as im passionate about these topics, and my comments are mostly relevant to big events rather than day play.
this in no way is added to criticize or insult anyone, just an honest review of what appear to be standard practices, at least down here in the mosquito state...

peeves:

Lack of available chronographs: I know new players and kids like to shoot the chronos, but that the cost of doing business, and it doesn't cost much to get a 14 year old to sit by the chrono, make sure all players are dialed in, and show new ones how it all works. Removing chronos and using the excuse that "people shoot them" is unacceptable, and Ive lost count of the number of times ive heard that from field staff over the years. I was at a field recently and they didnt have a chrono out, HOWEVER, as I was at the range (where a chrono shouldve been) a ref literally ran over with a hand chrono, explained their big red was out, and checked my marker with his pocket chrono. That is a culture of safety which should be applauded. ofcourse they shouldve had a back up big red, but they were handling the lapse professionally. Ive found fields that dont chrono regularly, or dont have them out except at the beginning of the day, do not have a "culture" of safety. that attitude also infects other fields when those players go elsewhere, those are the ones found shooting hot... so put a chrono out, stick it in a plexi box and chain it down if your worried about it... but have out , all the time, and your field will be so much safer and the players will have a constant tool and reminder to keep things safe. I shouldn't have to bring my own chrono, though i usually do. if i have to actually use it at your field and there isnt a special circumstance (long lines, mishap, etc.), chances are im not coming back.

Have a BYOP Day once in awhile: I support FPO fields, I think most <adult> players understand that fields need to be able to pay the bills, but i also end up with extra paint everytime. Ive only been back in the game for a few months, and ive already got a full case of extra paint left over from three events. If every field had a BYOP day once a quarter or so, i think it would boost their reputation and appreciation of their players. im sure there are still some fields that do this, but it should be a standard, not an exception. Id even go for a mini scenario where you charge me a few more bucks , but let me blow off my old paint a few times a year. And fer gads sake, let me buy a half case or even a 500 bag at your scenario if you don't do that now. you can even up the per ball cost a little , ill gladly pay it if it means i wont be lugging half a case of paint or more home. youll be able to sell the split cases, most fields worry theyll run short anyway these days from what i hear...

AIR/CO2 Fills: Get back to the one rate deal please, just charge :X: dollars, dont charge me another added fee for all day air. I know bulk co2 has gone up, and compressors are expensive , but im seeing this extra $10 or so for all day air on top of greens fees at big events now and its silly.. just add em together and charge me one price. I fill my own tanks, or use 12 grams half the time anyhow, but im still going to pay your field for the air, because thats the right thing to do, even though technically i could decline that extra fee, but then your be looking at me like "is he using my co2? he didn't pay for that..." not worth it, make it simple people...

Specialty paint: Make your policy clear, especially in scenarios and big games, Can I use that bag of tracer rounds(glow balls), first strikes, or paint granades ive had around forever in the game and what do i need to do to get permission? itll enhance your game and make things more fun, but no one has an answer when i ask, theres nothing in the rules on your field website, and the last thing i want to do is tick off the field staff so the fun stuff gets left home. let me buy a special permit for a few extra bucks or something ...

Directions: A little bit back I spent 45 minutes looking for a field that was 15 minutes from my home (that id never been too before) because the online directions were missing a street you have to turn on in order to get to the field. i arrived late and ticked off, not a good start. please have excellent directions, a good map and a cell phone at the field i can call if i get lost on the way. In the same category, if you print a flyer for a special event, please at least point me a web page where the game rules are, let me know what accommodations are available (can i camp on site? are there flush bathrooms or porta potties?, potable water available? food? ) I shouldn't need to email or call to find out basics, and itll save the field time as well , less questions to answer. you dont need to have these amenities, but communicating where they can be found if you aren't providing them is still a huge plus.

As field owners the answers to these questions may be obvious, because you are familiar with your set up. But to someone who's never been to your field, these can be a big deal and you can make their experience much more pleasant and them want to return, with just a bit of forethought.

Likes:

Fields that push rapid game turnarounds. I like to play, im old but i still dont need 45 rest between games, I feel a little cheated if ive just spent $100 to play at your field and i only get four games in all day... Bravo for any field that has their refs pushing for quick turnarounds, we can rest a bit more after back to back games, but keep things moving.

Fields that have chronos out all the time (see peeves above)

Fields that have great ads and clear and concise directions, rules, and f.a.q.s and update your web site weekly please, its great that you had a big game two months ago, but its over now, put something else up on your home page.

Clear Fees descriptions. if youve got promo going on, make sure the people on the field know about them (see update website above)

Rotate your fields, keep the locals humble: its awesome youve got a home team and loyal core group of players, but your not going to build on that if that core group is able to use their advantage to wipe out the newbs every time. get rid of the home team advantage , or keep them out of open play on walk on days. they can be very bad for your business even if their a constant income source for you. Fields that keep the 25bps shooters away from the walk ons with the rentals get a huge thumbs up from me.

fields that always have drinking water available get a hug thumbs up: even if its just a big thermos and they have to stick their head under it, or its a hose. nothings a bigger turnoff than no water on a hot day and $3.50 for a bottle of supermarket water. most will probably buy your cold water anyway if its reasonable, but some kids just spent all there allowance just to play, give them some water please...

Formatted games are also a plus: elimination is fun, but throw out a flag every so often, change things up, make it even more fun, the players will remember...

thats all i got for now, i warned you it would be long but hopefully it will be helpful.

That,was a great post.Thanks for taking the time to point out some very insightful feedback for us to chew on.Lots of things are simply taken for granted by both sides and these are the things I think need to be addressed.This thread I hope will bring these things out.In doing so it gives everyone a non threatening forum to spill their guts,and everyone can benefit.Thanks everyone who can bring yourself to add to the discussion.
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#50 User is offline   chasbronson 

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 08:20 PM

View Postaslanprime, on 26 April 2011 - 10:26 AM, said:

View Postchasbronson, on 16 April 2011 - 12:04 AM, said:

Would you care to elaborate on your take on blind firing, because it could mean a couple of things.Thanks


To me, blind firing rules are there to protect refs and people who are in the dead zone. I don't mind it very much when players blind fire. Sometimes there is a fine line between blind fire and snap shooting. Where it gets rediculous is when you have a new player that is too afraid so he sits behind a bunker and keeps popping his marker up and randomly shooting in every direction. I don't care so much, I just see it as him wasting paint and not knowing where I am...which means he'll soon be eliminated. I care less getting shot out that way than off the break by a longball that hits my shoe.

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#51 User is offline   chasbronson 

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 08:24 PM

View Postaslanprime, on 26 April 2011 - 10:52 AM, said:

View PostMadMaverick, on 26 April 2011 - 11:13 AM, said:

Ive found fields that dont chrono regularly, or dont have them out except at the beginning of the day, do not have a "culture" of safety. that attitude also infects other fields when those players go elsewhere, those are the ones found shooting hot...


I've noticed that dangerous trend as well. It used to be that you had to chrono and get a piece of tape that said you were chronoed. And mid-day, you had to chrono again. Some fields do an even better job by doing random chrono checks on the field with hand helds. But I've noticed the recent trend in worsening field safety where fields pretty much just tell people to chrono before the game but never really care if they do or not, have no way of knowing, and sometimes don't even give you enough time to do it.

I've actually heard on more than one occasion, players (usually the younger speedball folks or the field "regulars") talking amongst themselves saying things like, "I'm not gonna chrono unless I have to because I got mine set high for distance" or "I hope they don't make us chrono because I know I'm shooting hot". When I hear this stuff, I tell a ref...if that makes me an *-hole than so be it. But there's just too much risk when people have the velocity cranked up:

  • Risk of shooting so hot you can crack goggles
  • Risking shooting hot and hurting a noob bad enough that they decide paintball hurts too much and they don't play anymore.
  • The fact that you have an unfair advantage (cheating).
  • And, the chance that you shoot me hot, which will make me angry, which will result in me losing my temper and potentially smacking someone...which doesn NOT make for a very good paintballing experience for Me or Them.


And there's no reason for it. Have I ever went out on the field after chronoing, knowing that my gun was "slightly" over...maybe 289-291. Sure, I guess. But have I ever jacked my marker up to 300 and went out on the field? Absolutely not. Most fields require 280-285, I usually chrono in at between 267-291. If my marker is being "good", I might get it to sit right there at 279-281. If it's being a "jerk", then it'll fluctuate and I'll be somewhere in the 267-291 range. I only have one marker that I've ever "intentionally" shot hot with, and that's my BRUTE pump because I can't change the velocity on it. So it'll shoot around 290 or so and there's nothing I can do about it. I've only used it in outback games and probably a total of 1-2 times in 10+ years. And I consider a "pump" less of a problem shooting hot because you're only getting shot "once" by it. You're not getting hit 5-6 times per pop.

I like the tape idea.How about a smiley face sticker?
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#52 User is offline   chasbronson 

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 08:27 PM

View Postger, on 26 April 2011 - 10:59 AM, said:

Welcome to the Forums MadMav... glad to have you here!

You brought up a good point that I'd like to reinforce... chrono range.

1. Have a chrono available all the time
2. Have a designated range for it

A field I was at a few years ago was a pretty small operation that probably wasn't used to large groups (80-100 of us total), but they did have an abundance of rentals & hpa fills so they weren't too unprepared. They had only one Big Red w/ ref standing at it, again... a small field. The "range" was not sectioned off at all, you were shooting out into the woods near the staging area in the direction of the field entrance. I use "entrance" liberally because it was just a trail back to a couple of areas. Once everyone was chrono'd at the start of the day, the chrono went away never to be seen again. They allowed some target practice in a separate area near staging where you could shoot across a ravine, but again no real boundaries & no rules for masks/bbd's.

We thought about putting another chrono area parralell to the field entrance so people can check before going in.
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#53 User is offline   chasbronson 

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 08:45 PM

View PostIncognito, on 29 April 2011 - 05:30 AM, said:

I have a couple big pet peeves about fields.

The first is when the refs enforce safety but not the rules. Great, no one is shooting hot and everyone wears their goggles. But then you have a bunch of people wiping and no ref cares about it. I played a scenario once where they strictly enforced safety, but everyone wiped all day and no ref did anything about it. That seriously ticks me off, especially when I'm using a pump and only hit people once.

The second pet peeve is when fields refuse to split teams up. This is usually a refs call. I've played games where you have a team full of newbies, walk-ons, and maybe a couple experienced players; and then the other team is a team the plays together often and knows how to work together. I understand they may want the practice and may not wanna be split up, but it needs to happen. It's no fun getting beaten every single game because of the teams being really one-sided.

That's all I got for now.

Good point .We pick team captains to pick teams first.If the game is lopsided we pick other captains and pick up teams again.If their are some more experienced players who want to stick together we pit the "few" against everyone else.\,and even it up with numbers.There egos usually don't let them back down,until the "numbers" work them over.Then they want to pick up new teams.We do the same with guys who are exceptionally good,they like the challenge.No one likes to be on the losing team all day.(Your the only one working the field and everyone else is hiding in a bunker and your taking a beating.)Your right ,and someone else said it earlier the ref's can make the difference in the day you have .Big time.If its taught right Your players group can pretty well run themselves during games with just ref oversight.Good ref's shouldn't have to babysit every second of a good group.
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#54 User is offline   chasbronson 

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 09:18 PM

The last few posts reminded me of something that bugs me about players.
Games should not be a babysitting session.The refs cannot and should not have to sit behind every player to make sure they are playing by every dot and tittle of the law of paintball.Whether it is some "official rule",or some rule your former field, you played at had.Paintball is supposed to be a "fun sport".Not some legalistic , Phariseeic,live your game by the law, or another player,[or ref], will condemn you to hell sport.People make mistakes,adrenaline is pumping,and things happen on the battle field.Its paintball, you will be shot! Sometimes accidently. Stop your whining, especially adults.Live with it! You will accidently shoot some one else eventually,you will appreciate the same grace.If there is a purposeful disrespect of your rights,take it to the ref,or the owner if its not dealt with in respect to ALL parties the n let them know you might not return.Usually its a misunderstanding on both parties on rules from (other fields).Make sure you understand the rules of the field you are playing on.We will not be, and are not obligated to abide by other fields ,or "official" rules.WE endeavor to make the game enjoyable by not having everybody worrying about breaking some legalistic rule.With that said there are rules that are in disputable;masks on ,barrel covers and the general safety rules that cannot be compromised.If you are hit ,go to jail, its only a game If there is conflicting situation both parties go out,Save us the trouble.One big mouth "its my way or no way" will ruin the atmosphere for everyone on both teams.You deserve to be told to leave so you don't ruin everyone else's day.
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#55 User is offline   Eskimo 

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Posted 03 May 2011 - 01:02 PM

mad dev - Funny you say that you dont like fields putting the chronograph away due to "people shooting it"

People SERIOUSLY unload on them! our field has been through 4... FOUR Big Reds because of people going to town on it thinking its a Target.
Those damn things cost 300$

I will leave the chrono out to players when they stop destroying it.
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#56 User is offline   ger 

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Posted 03 May 2011 - 02:28 PM

Seriously? I have never seen one shot. What kind of putz would shoot those things? You must have a bunch of window-lickers at your field. Maybe you need to hang more pie plates for them to shoot at... or a sign stating they will be hung up as targets themselves if they are seen using the chrono as target practice.

View Postchasbronson, on 01 May 2011 - 12:18 AM, said:

The last few posts reminded me of something that bugs me about players.
Games should not be a babysitting session....

You're right, refs are not babysitters, but they are adultsitters - that's exactly what refs in every sport are tasked w/. Their jobs are to enforce the safety & game rules of the field, regardless of whether the players are policing themselves or not. Yes, many times players themselves need to take it down a notch & not go nuts just because they shot a guy in his pod pack but he didn't call himself out - chances are he didn't know he was hit. But if a guy is consistently getting shot where he should be able to feel it but not going out a ref needs to be "legalistic" & pull the guy. Like you wrote, that one guy can ruin the whole atmosphere.
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Posted 04 May 2011 - 12:41 AM

It really bothers me when woods ball fields have rules that aren't exactly the rules that I make up on the spot.

Outlaw wins :P
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#58 User is offline   Mike68 

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 02:12 AM

I just hate it when refs make people pick teams before games, because it always goes something like this:

Noobs pick friends, so that they can be together.

Agglets pick other agglets, because they realize that the more electros they can pack onto their team, the more they're going to wipe the floor with the noobs.

I stand back, unpicked. The agglets don't want me because I'm rocking a pump, and the noobs don't trust in my skill because I'm wearing a t-shirt and shorts. I either end up with the agg kiddies, desperately trying to get shots on the noobs off before my compatriots put down their lanes of paint, or I end up on the noob team--and desperately fight a losing battle with scared, hiding teammates against ten agglets with Egos :dry:

Would you pick me? I'd pick me so hard.
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Posted 05 May 2011 - 07:16 AM

As someone who picks the teams at my field... It is just hard to do. Some guys get all bent out of shape if their team is bad.

I used to have everyone draw checkers. Red and black teams were easy then. But, as more guys bring friends or their kids they want to play together. Lately I have been just telling guys to divide in half, one team here, other team there.

And usually I don't have to make too many changes. I always try and join the "weaker" team in my opinion. (how are you going to get better if you play on the strong side all the time?)

Besides, there is nothing better than teaching a bunch of new players how to use strategy and teamwork to beat a more advanced group of players.

If it is way overmatched (has happened when we had 11 new players show up together and they all wanted to be on the same team. I just kept pulling the guys that captured the flag over to their team until they started winning!

The goal should be that everyone gets the chance to win. It would stink to go and play all day and never win because one side was so much better than the other side...

Most of our games end up being tied before the last game, which breaks the tie and gives one side bragging rights.
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#60 User is offline   I.K.E. 

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 05:56 PM

View PostShipwreck!, on 04 May 2011 - 02:41 AM, said:

It really bothers me when woods ball fields have rules that aren't exactly the rules that I make up on the spot.

Outlaw wins :P


I agree. Cheaper, and do what you want. Play with your friends. The only downside is sometimes finding a place can be difficult (at least it is in Kansas).

It is fun to play on commercial fields sometimes. Last time I went, we had about 50-75 players. All the reg'lars teamed up and all us nobodies were together. But that's ok. Those dumbdonkey speedball boys spent all day trying to win by firepower/laning that they totally disregarded intelligent strategy. We MOPPED them.
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