Special Ops Paintball: A5 Evolver - Special Ops Paintball

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A5 Evolver The slow evolution from stock to perfection, and one step back. Rate Topic: -----

Poll: Your Opinion (24 member(s) have cast votes)

What's the best air mounting solution?

  1. Rear air (grip mounted). (6 votes [25.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 25.00%

  2. Vert air. (1 votes [4.17%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 4.17%

  3. Voted Remote kit. (13 votes [54.17%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 54.17%

  4. Other. (4 votes [16.67%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 16.67%

Which stock is better?

  1. M4 style collapsible. (5 votes [20.83%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 20.83%

  2. Voted G36 style folding. (5 votes [20.83%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 20.83%

  3. MP5 style sliding. (4 votes [16.67%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 16.67%

  4. Rear air butt plate. (2 votes [8.33%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 8.33%

  5. Other. (2 votes [8.33%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 8.33%

  6. None. (6 votes [25.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 25.00%

What's the best targeting solution?

  1. Voted Iron sights. (7 votes [29.17%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 29.17%

  2. Laser sight. (1 votes [4.17%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 4.17%

  3. Optic sight. (7 votes [29.17%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 29.17%

  4. Telescopic sight. (1 votes [4.17%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 4.17%

  5. Dude, just point it and shoot. (8 votes [33.33%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 33.33%

What's the best loading solution?

  1. Standard high capacity hoppers. (11 votes [45.83%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 45.83%

  2. Low capacity tac-cap hoppers. (1 votes [4.17%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 4.17%

  3. Q loaders. (5 votes [20.83%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 20.83%

  4. Longbow tube mags. (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  5. Voted Magazine fed. (6 votes [25.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 25.00%

  6. Pump. (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  7. Other. (1 votes [4.17%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 4.17%

Do tactical flashlights work?

  1. Yes. (2 votes [7.41%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 7.41%

  2. Voted No, they only reveal your position. (8 votes [29.63%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 29.63%

  3. Maybe, if you know what you're doing. (17 votes [62.96%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 62.96%

Has my setup improved over the years?

  1. Voted Yes, it's highly functional. (9 votes [30.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 30.00%

  2. No. (4 votes [13.33%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 13.33%

  3. Subjective. It's more about looks so it depends what you like. (14 votes [46.67%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 46.67%

  4. It's gotten more and more overboard and gaudy. (3 votes [10.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 10.00%

Would you try any of the mods detailed in this post?

  1. I'm going to clone your gun! (2 votes [6.90%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 6.90%

  2. Voted Some of them. (18 votes [62.07%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 62.07%

  3. No way! (6 votes [20.69%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 20.69%

  4. Just the 1/4 turn "quick change". (1 votes [3.45%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 3.45%

  5. Just the Tippmann rail mod. (1 votes [3.45%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 3.45%

  6. I'm going to spend $75 on an aftermarket flat top rail. (1 votes [3.45%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 3.45%

Which style did you like better?

  1. M4 style. (6 votes [25.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 25.00%

  2. Voted G36 style. (9 votes [37.50%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 37.50%

  3. Other. (9 votes [37.50%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 37.50%

I'm running out of ideas, what would you add to it?

  1. Grenade launcher! (5 votes [8.20%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 8.20%

  2. Carry handle! (3 votes [4.92%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 4.92%

  3. Holographic sight! (6 votes [9.84%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 9.84%

  4. Compressed air! (13 votes [21.31%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 21.31%

  5. Bipod! (2 votes [3.28%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 3.28%

  6. Voted E Grip! (10 votes [16.39%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 16.39%

  7. Dude, you need to paint that thing! (9 votes [14.75%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 14.75%

  8. A remote switch for your tac-light! (3 votes [4.92%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 4.92%

  9. Response trigger! (5 votes [8.20%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 8.20%

  10. Double trigger! (5 votes [8.20%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 8.20%

How'd you like the topic?

  1. Awesomeness! (7 votes [13.46%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 13.46%

  2. Lame! (3 votes [5.77%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 5.77%

  3. Topic fail. (3 votes [5.77%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 5.77%

  4. Topic Thunder! (6 votes [11.54%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 11.54%

  5. Too many questions. (5 votes [9.62%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 9.62%

  6. I only skimmed it. (7 votes [13.46%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 13.46%

  7. I only skimmed it... and I want that time back! (4 votes [7.69%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 7.69%

  8. It gave me some good ideas. (8 votes [15.38%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 15.38%

  9. Voted Do you have groupies? (6 votes [11.54%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 11.54%

  10. What topic? (3 votes [5.77%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 5.77%

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#1 User is offline   Shipwreck! 

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 08:23 PM

Allright, try to bear with me here. I haven't keept a catalog of each setup I've gone through over the years, so instead just scrounging through old pics looking for them. They aren't all going to be all that good shots of the gun. I still have all the parts so I could just re-assemble each set up one by one and take good pics... but that would take ALLLLL day and then some and I don't care that much haha! So here we go, there's a story behind each part and each setup but I don't have the time to write it all down and you don't have the patience to read it so I'll stick to basic descriptions and you can ask questions if you care.

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The first major setup. This was taken while I was on leave from the Navy in my backyard, probably around '04 or '05. I had only trained with rifles and pistols in the Navy so the stockless smg inspired design felt really akward to me. I was attempting to mimic the feel of the Mk18 (M4 variant) I had worked with here for comfort and function.

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Here's my little cuz with the gun the same day. The setup: M4 style collapsible stock, carry handle, optic sight, vert air, 50 ball tac-cap and the Flatline barrel.

I still love this setup, although I haven't used it since, but I did find some issues with it and set out to resolve them with the next setup. First the mounting for the optic sight never worked quite right. The carry handle and sight weren't compatible, it took some moding in my ship's machine shop but I got it to work for the most part as you could see in the pics above. The second problem was that although the M4 stock did allow me to make the gun shorter for close up games in abandoned buildings, it really didn't make that much difference and it was still a really long gun overall. I wanted something even more manuverable.

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Anothere leave pic. Here's my Grandma posing with the gat! Me on the left my cousin on the right... Although this was never a permanent configuration for my gun I'll explain below.

By the next time I came home on leave, I had replaced the M4 collapsible stock with the G36 style folding stock. This allowed me to eliminate the length of the stock, not partially like the collapsible one, but completely by simpling folding the stock over. Again I was only used to working with things that had stocks, but for the purposes of close quarters paintballing I was willing to get used to it at this point. Also I had added an RIS handgaurd to the Flatline so I could mount a tac-light for night games, yes they do work for that but only if you know how to use them. To replace the haphazard modded carry handle mount for my optics, I had placed an order with SpecOps for a 45* offset weaver rail mount, but tragically it wasnt going to arrive at my command until a few days AFTER I went home on leave! Which was the only opportunity I'd have to paintball for at least six months to a year! So as soon as I got home I went to the local paintball shop to pick out a 45* offset. I figured when the one I ordered arrived I'd pick which one I like better and give the other to my cousin for his Tippmann 98. But they only had weaver to weaver 45* offsets at the shop. So I bought one anyway, and improvised by mounting my sight at the rear of the RIS handgaurd on my Flatline. That extra 45* came in handy later too, but that's another story.

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Ok so if that last one was a temporary setup until I got the rail hardware from SpecOps, this was the permanent setup that it became. Here I am at home on leave getting ready to test fire it in the garage. The only difference between this and the last pic is the mounting of the optic sight which I'll explain below as it's complicated.

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But first here's a couple pics of me posing with it like a geek back at my apt in VA, where I was stationed.

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Ok so this tragic mess is the end result of my optics mount "solution". I bought what was poorly advertised, described and depicted by SpecOps as a 45* offset weaver rail for a Tippmann A5. What I GOT was a 45* offset DOVETAIL rail with a weaver siderail for a Tippmann A5. Apearently someone at SpecOps hadn't been doing their homework, and they didn't take very good pictures of the thing so I couldn't tell. So the part I got could only mount my sight directly to the side of the gun, where I couldn't get my eye behind it. All I could do to improvise was attach the weaver to weaver 45* offset rail I had bought from the shop to the SpecOps weaver side rail, that got the sight up just barely high enough for me to use it, but it was still very akwardly hanging off the side of the gun. It ended up not being much better than the original carry handle mount, but at least with this everything bolted together properly so I stuck with it.

This was a great setup too, overall. But aside from the obvious problem with the optics mount, I did find a little more room for improvement. The G36 folding stock greatly reduced the overall length of the A-5, but with the flatline on there it was STILL pretty long. After a while I decided I wanted an even MORE compact marker for close quarters, which I was loving more and more every time I played. I don't have any clear pics of the next setup so bear with me here...

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I know it's really small and not very clear but turns out this is the best pic I have of the next main setup. I went online found, ordered and replaced my flatline barrel with the Endgame 3" stub nose barrel! Only problem with that was there was nowhere to mount my flashlight on the stubnose! So I also bought a small rail block that bolts to the A-5 where the stock foregrip usually goes. Then I took the flashlight mounted it to the railblock on the body of the gun, and just like that I had a super cqb paintball gun and got to keep all my attachments! One more problem the stock foregrip for the A5 doesn't mount to a weaver rail, so I also bought a full lenght verticle foregrip that could go on the rail block. So I've got my sight, a better foregrip and my tac-light all monted to the body of the gun with the G36 stock and a 3" stubnose barrel! I this pic I croped out the stock because I had gotten bored of the G36 all the time and played like two games with the M4 stock on there, during which time this pic was taken. But the rest of the time it had the G36 stock on there and with it folded the gun was the size it is in this cropped image! It was tiny, and made the PERFECT cqb gun!

However it wasn't long before I realized how heinously short the range on the 3" barrel was! I needed better range, but loved my stubnose for cqpb (close quarters paintball). Behold the next evolution...

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All I had to do was carry my stock barrel with me! Here I am posing like a total goofball again, exact same setup but with the stock A5 barrel on instead. So I carried my stock A5 barrel, and my stub nose in each game and switched back and forth as necessary! The A5 was almost the perfect, all purpose paintball gun! ...Almost.

So now what's wrong with it? Well, first off the optics mounting issue still hasn't been resolved, but we'll comeback to that. For now the problem I want to deal with is this: the threads on the A5 barrel are so fine and so many it takes about 20-30 seconds to switch between barrels! So I'm clearing an abandoned building, when I see an opposing player running through a field outside the window, I stop what I'm doing and start to switch barrels 'cause I know the stubnose doesn't have the range, and in the time it takes to do that he gets away! Then I have stop and switch back to stubnose and continue clearing the building, and I just held myself up 40seconds to a minute for no reason at all! That's no good! I spent alot of the time wondering if I was gonna get tagged out while switching barrels.

This post has been edited by Shipwreck!: 21 September 2010 - 02:29 PM

"If they wanna be asinine about this, we'll just be asinine right back."
A5 Evolver!



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#2 User is offline   Shipwreck! 

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 08:28 PM

So here it is... What I consider to be my PERFECT Tippmann A5 setup! The perfect mix between CQPB and "long range" capabilities, modularity and ease of operation! I hope you agree!

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From the right side with Flatline Barrel and G36 folding stock extended.

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Right side with Flatline stock folded. You may notice the optics mounting situation is finally resolved, I'll explain after a few pics.

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Left side, Flatline, stock extended. From this side you can see the tac-light mounted on the side.

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Left side, Flatline, stock folded.

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Right side, Stubnose barrel, stock extended.

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Right side, Stubnose, stock folded. Super CQPB gun! And the beauty of it all: 3 second barrel change or less! Explaining later.

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Left side, Stubnose, stock extended.

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Left side, Stubnose, stock folded.

And here's how I did it: At some point relatively recently, maybe a year ago now, I saw someone who had loosened the bolts up on their gun quarter turn and remove their Flatline barrel. I never realized the gun had this quarter turn feature because with the bolts tightened down, the barrel is locked in there like a vice, you can't turn it. But with the bolts out and a little elbow grease you can rotate the barrel 1/4 turn and pull it out. I knew this could be the answer to my barrel change time problem, so I looked around on the internet and found some 1/4 "quick change" kits that replaced the front three bolts of the clamshell with thumbscrews. Which seemed ridiculous to me, it would still take quite some time to unscrew the three bolts by hand before you could pull out the barrel. All the kits did was eliminate the need for tools, but wouldn't make the process much faster at all. Then I had my simple idea that would permantently alter the gun, but would be worth it. I loosed the bolts just enough till I could turn the barrel... barely. Then I just kept working the barrel back and forth, until it turned smoothly with almost no resistence. Then I tightened the bolts a little more and started over. It took awhile but eventually the bolts were tightened down snugly with an allen wrench and the barrel could still be easily removed. Then I just threaded the barrel adapter onto my stubnose barrel, and had transformed Tippmann's "1/4 turn slow change with tools" feature into a functioning true 1/4 turn quick change feature! Now I had better range and accuracy than my stock A5 barrel and a way faster change time to my stubnose! So same scenario as before, I'm clearing a building, see someone outside, beyond the range of my stubnose, 1/4 turn quickchange to my Flatline take the guy out in a few seconds then 1/4 quickchange back to my stubnose and continue clearing the building... I call that PROBLEM SOLVED. Or MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.

Next I came up with a solution to my chronic optics mounting issues. Tippmann had originally intended the retarded stock top rail on the A5 as a dual functioning dovetail AND weaver rail, which I read on here. But anybody who has one knows you can't mount weaver attachments to the top of an A5. On the A5 the dovetail rail is supposed to also function as the upper portion of the weaver rail below it. But if you look at any weaver or picatinny rail out there you'll see that the upper portions of those rails ALWAYS have slot's machined into them. These are designed to accomodate the mounting hardware you'll find on the underside of any weaver or picatinny attachment. Somehow Tippmann managed to drop the ball on this one and never cut those grooves into the dovetail rail on the A5, or the 98 for that matter, effectively renedering their attempt at a weaver rail USELESS. As well as creating a sizeable market for ridiculous over-priced after marked rail hardware. One that claimed at least $75 dollars of my own money and sent me the wrong part after all (AGAIN).

Luckily though, if the only reason the Tippmann Rail doesn't work is the lack of slots, all we have to do to make it work is cut the slots ourselves! If you've got a mill or access to a mill you're set! If not, as in my case, you can make due with a dremel tool. It won't be pretty but unlike Tippmann's designers, it will WORK. Unfortunately by time I decided to do this I had gotten out of the Navy and no longer had access to my ships machine shop, so I had to make due with a dremel tool...

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Here's the groove's I cut with my Dremmel tool.

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All you have to do is be carefull not to cut into the Weaver rail base.

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Once you cut the grooves (try to use another weaver rail as a guide to get them spaced properly), you can attach weaver rail attachments directly to the top of your A5 or 98, for the low low cost of no money! This is the weaver to weaver 45* offset rail I bought from the local shop a long time ago.

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The other side.

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The top.

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With my site on it!

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And through the site! The battery is dying...

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Of course now that I had the perfect paintball gun it was only a matter of time before tragedy struck. Soon after, I lost my stubnose barrel, Endgame went out of business and now all I can find is 4" stubnose barrels with the last inch of barrel being a muzzlebreak. Which means an extra inch of overall length with no extra range over my old 3". I want no part of it. Maybe someday I'll get some alluminum stock and have a new one custom machined, but until then I've been demoted back to only using my Flatline barrel. To fill the extra clearence left by working out the 1/4 turn socket I just put a peice of paper in with the barrel and that holds it tightly enough to move my attachments back onto the RIS handgaurd and use a 3 point sling. The new sling will hold the gun more securely when I'm not, but won't be as manuverable as the single point sling I used to use. Here it is, my sad ending.

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At least the optics problem is finally taken care of for good.

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The stock still folds so it's still suitable for CQPB just not perfect like it used to be.
"If they wanna be asinine about this, we'll just be asinine right back."
A5 Evolver!



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#3 User is offline   Eskimo 

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 01:42 PM

my responses:
I prefer Rear Air If and only if you have no stock, I find then you can use the bottle to shoulder the marker,

Vert Air works best with some form of stock,

hoppers = totally your choice, but I like small hoppers ( 50 rounders / tubes) on tippmann style markers, just helps balance the weight better,

sight= point and fire, unless the set-up is really well done, which not very many are, sights are just a waste of time ( seriously, it would be better to just 3 ball the guy then aim up and fire one or two)

- especially if your rockin a stock, i find aiming to be less usefull,
Actually the only stock which works well with actual aiming would be a Dogleg style, or a Phantom styled T or L stock.

good luck to you, you enjoy your paintball and thats all that matters.
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#4 User is offline   Shipwreck! 

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Posted 29 September 2010 - 12:45 AM

I'm going to embed my responses into your response, because I like to!

View PostEskimo, on 28 September 2010 - 01:42 PM, said:

my responses:
I prefer Rear Air If and only if you have no stock, I find then you can use the bottle to shoulder the marker,

Vert Air works best with some form of stock,

Dude I agree with you totally! Never saw someone on here who prefers vert air before... or who realizes that stocks are functionall and not just aesthetic, for that matter. Oh wait, almost totall agree, I still prefer vert air without a stock, makes the gun shorter and better for close quarters. Which is my favorite type of play.

hoppers = totally your choice, but I like small hoppers ( 50 rounders / tubes) on tippmann style markers, just helps balance the weight better,

Dude, I agree with you totally twice! Oh, almost totally, in lack of the mag feed option I have always thought tac-caps were the best. So I MOSTLY agree with you twice. But I do have to say I'd prefer a mag feed. No more spilling my balls and what not... faster than opening a hopper and a pod and dumping then closing both and putting pod away, just push a button and shove in a new box...

sight= point and fire, unless the set-up is really well done, which not very many are, sights are just a waste of time ( seriously, it would be better to just 3 ball the guy then aim up and fire one or two)

Awwww... and finally our opinions diverge. I haven't put too much into accuracy myself, internals are all stock. All I've done in that department is a flatline barrel and my stock. But I still find my red dot extremely usefull and here's why:

For my first few years paintballing I was in the Navy which meant I only got to play once or twice a year on leave. All my beliefs about paintball and sights and aiming were just speculation based on logic and I didn't have any experience to confirm what I thought. So when I got out after years of red dot nay-sayers I had finally begun to doubt the sight myself. My first game as a civilian I had my sight turned off when some noob ran out into the open and lit me up from about a hundred feet away. So I took cover behind a wall waited for a break in the fire, then peaked out and point and shot a burst just like what you recomended. Missed, did it again after he shot up the wall a little, missed again. Went through two 30 round tac caps without hitting the guy and he was still standing there! I thought no freakin way this is better than using my site. So I fliped it on, peaked out, put the red dot on his head, adjusted so it was aimed 3ft above his head (which I could tell exactly with the red dot appearing to hover 3ft above his head) and fired a single shot, nailed the kid. Now he wasn't much of an opponent since he didn't think to take cover all that time, but the contrast between the point and shoot and using the site was never more obvious. This was the perfect example. Plus he had a flatline on his 98 and I was using that 3inch stub nose on my a5 so he should have had me in range and accuracy hands down. The sight made up that difference and then some.

Then the same thing happened the next week with another guy, except he did think to take cover. He layed some suprresing fire on me from behind some bushes, and when it let up I peaked out and fired a volley of 3 or 4 shots. But this time as soon as I fired one volley I was like, "Duh the optic sight!" turned it on, same thing put the red dot a few feet over his head let one fly and gogged the guy with that one shot. Now that's way less a waste of time than pointing, shooting, adjusting, shooting again, adjusting again shooting again and eventually getting lucky.

Plus I just think it's common sense that no matter how inacurat something is, it'll always be more accurate when you aim it. They don't point and shoot M60's just because they're less accurate than M16's :P


- especially if your rockin a stock, i find aiming to be less usefull,
Actually the only stock which works well with actual aiming would be a Dogleg style, or a Phantom styled T or L stock.

Eh, admitedly the combination of a regular stock and a paintball mask does make aiming less comfortable and fast. Things get in the way of course. But all you need to fix this is a 45* offset rail, and I have one. Once you got that it's not a problem at all and a regular stock works perfectly well with actuall aiming.

With my G36 stock and offset rail, aiming is just as easy and fast as a dogleg, but I can fold my stock over and have a huge advantage in close quarters. Look at my gun up there with the stock folded and the stubnose, I can fit it through any doorway while still keeping the barrel up and ready to shoot! The G36 stock gives me all the advantage of a stock and a fully functional platform for aiming, plus folds over so my gun can act like it doesn't have a stock at all when I need it too. Dogleg's can't do that.

With a dog-leg, or any solid stock or even an M4 stock in order to fit it though a door I would have to aim it down to go through leaving me really vulnerable once I'm through the breach since I have to bring the barrel all the way back up before I can shoot anyone. Only other option would be going through the door with the barrel up, but that would give everyone advanced warning that I'm coming in, and I'd still need to go all the way through the door before I could turn the thing to shoot to either side. So I'm going to have to disagree with you again and say G36 works better than doglegs in general, and just as well when aiming.


good luck to you, you enjoy your paintball and thats all that matters.


Thanks Eskimo! Although I disagree with you on those two points (that aiming doesn't work and you need a dogleg to aim), I think I really like your taste in markers. Because unlike most people it seems like more of a logical assesment of what does and doesn't work. While everyone else just seems to go with what they think looks cool, and most people seem to think that anything that changes the appearence of a gun (like a stock) is purely asthetic and has no real function. Which couldn't be further from the truth.

Anyway, if you have a gun that reflects your ideas I'd love to see it, sounds dope! Really appreciate your assesment, you have fun out there too!
"If they wanna be asinine about this, we'll just be asinine right back."
A5 Evolver!



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#5 User is offline   Shipwreck! 

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Posted 29 September 2010 - 12:59 AM

I just noticed one person voted that "Dude, (I) need to paint that thing!" Hahaha! Yeah it is pretty ugly at this point. Appearently paintball filling is a mild solvent, every time I let it go a few days before a cleaning the finish bubbles up underneath the paintball goo and eventually peels off hahaha! I would paint it, but it's my personal opinion that guns should be ugly, black and obviously well used. Ugly and well used for character / awesomeness and black for tactical purposes. Think about it, if you get a jungle camo paintjob... what happens when you play in the (edit:) desert? And vice versa. No mater where you go shadows are always the same color.

Maybe I'm just crazy but I'm getting a little sick of seing pretty guns.

This post has been edited by Shipwreck!: 20 October 2010 - 09:17 AM

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 02:17 PM

TELLLLLL ME WHAT YOU THINK!!!! And in the same tedious detail that I wrote this in!
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#7 User is offline   Benaiah 

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 03:22 PM

i love your setup except for one thing: the vert air. it makes the marker have such a higher profile. It makes it extremely difficult to return fire from a laying position. If youre not going to run remote air, then at least a reverse facing asa instead of vert. Ive never used a front facing tank, but i have heard that they balance the marker well and dont mess with your stock.
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Posted 05 December 2010 - 06:28 PM

Awwwww Beniaha, that wasn't very tedious detail... but none-the-less:

Thanks for the shamelessly solicited lovvvve!

I won't deny for a SECOND that that vert air puts the marker a little higher off the ground than I'd be perfectly comfortable with, and that is a significant issue because I do go prone ALOT! I love to Navy crawl through open fields of tall grass or brush, people never expect you to come from there, and they think if you do, they'll be able to see you a mile away running towards them, then I shoot them from eight feet away in the grass mwahahaha! But I digress...

The point is, your right, it puts the marker uncomfortably high, but only by an inch or two. I wouldn't by any means call it extremely dificult to shoot with. The most difficult part is Navy crawling with a stock, thank God it's a folder.

Sounds like a good assesment of the front facing tank, it looks like it would put the tank right in the middle for good balance, and it wouldn't protrude out the back from there. But at the same time I'm not sure it would make a huge difference in height: A horizontally oriented tank mounted below the pistol grip, vs a vertically oriented tank mounted up at the top of the pistol grip. This is a perfect oportunity to use my long burried photoshop marker builder!

Posted Image

There we go! See according to my grossly disproportioned marker builder the difference would only be an inch or two! Oh... whoops. Which... would be the perfect solution since I just stated earlier that the marker only felt "an inch or two" too high. Well played sir, looks like when I get some extra cash I might have to experiment with a forward facing tank. Then I'll have to do something else when my mag feed kit gets in... oh yeah everybody...

THE NEXT EVOLUTION!

Anyway, this is horibly out of proportion and not even the right marker but I'll have to look into it more with mine. Although I'll be swithcing to the mag feed kit in a few months it will still be good to improve the regular setup in case I ever want to go back, or end up switching back and forth. Thanks for the painfully concise yet awesome suggestion Beniaha! Oh wow, I think this is the first suggestion I've ever gotten that I couldn't even partially rule out in favor of my current setup, even after careful deliberation!

By the way, I want to see Everyone else's "Marker evolution" thread! So we can all start flinging suggestions all over the place! So if you've got a particular marker that you've put alot of development into, or if you're a gun whore and you've got a string of types / models of markers that you've evolved through as a player, throw up a photo inventory, and explain each step and transition, it'll be awesome!
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#9 User is offline   Legato 

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 11:52 PM

You forgot to take into account the ASA needed to mount a tank vertically on a 98. That would add another inch or two to the overall length. And wouldn't be too pretty looking. But you are using an A5 right, so that is negated i guess since the Tombstone goes right into the valve.

Forward facing tanks or (Island/Hawaiin Style, depending on which school you come from) is a very comfy setup. Feels nice and aims nice. Just with a 20 oz tank will make it a bit front heavy, so you might naturally be tilting the marker down/forward. But you can get used to it. Island style ROCKS with a 3.5 oz tank or 12 gram changer. Keeps it easy to reach, but tucks it out of the way. The only downside to it really is if you aim up you are flooding the ASA with liquid CO2, which will cause a velocity spike and eat a larger amount of CO2 then gaseous CO2 would use. But a anti siphon or PPS Stab can easily fix that

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Posted 07 December 2010 - 09:21 AM

Couple things I like here
1- you were not afraid to visually scar the A5 for its better, nice.
2- you seem to have experimented instead of research, also nice


To the subject of your site, Ive been running that same sight setup in my A5 and the problem I have with it is that my stock sits too high for my head w/mask to line up. I only mention this because if you ever decide to change the stock make sure it has a drop to it so you dont have the same problem I do. Otherwise Hell yeah to optics at an angle.


Overall I have to like the entire setup, looks so much like mine that I cant love what youve done.
ok, Ill go out and find you one of these

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Posted 08 December 2010 - 01:06 AM

View PostLegato, on 06 December 2010 - 10:52 PM, said:

You forgot to take into account the ASA needed to mount a tank vertically on a 98. That would add another inch or two to the overall length. And wouldn't be too pretty looking. But you are using an A5 right, so that is negated i guess since the Tombstone goes right into the valve.

Forward facing tanks or (Island/Hawaiin Style, depending on which school you come from) is a very comfy setup. Feels nice and aims nice. Just with a 20 oz tank will make it a bit front heavy, so you might naturally be tilting the marker down/forward. But you can get used to it. Island style ROCKS with a 3.5 oz tank or 12 gram changer. Keeps it easy to reach, but tucks it out of the way. The only downside to it really is if you aim up you are flooding the ASA with liquid CO2, which will cause a velocity spike and eat a larger amount of CO2 then gaseous CO2 would use. But a anti siphon or PPS Stab can easily fix that



Why is it called Island/Hawaiin style? Yeah it's an A5 so the tank goes straight into the tombstone. I originally made the "marker builder" to experiment with setups for my 98, ironically in spite of it's simplified feed mechanism (lack there of) dubbed "The Jammy Gun". Although for the record those issues have been resolved.

Thanks Legato, actually the 3.5oz tank was a solution I was hoping to use with my vert air. Running the 3.5oz vs my usuall nine would save those uncomfortable few inches without the need to switch to a forward asa. I'll go with the forward asa though if I find the 3.5oz vert tank unsatisfactory for some reason, and be able to use the larger tank and still save those inches... Ooooh, that whole aiming up though would probably throw off my whole elevation thing. As is I can guess elevation for different ranged targets spot on almost every time. If aiming up with the hawaiian asa throws the velocity it will throw my estimates and I'll have to re-learn my gun! :( Oh well, I guess I'll just have to experiment with these different possible solutions and see which works best for me. Although I'm going to have a whole new can of worms opening up with this mag kit. I really don't want remote air, but where am I going to put a tank on the gun???? I'm considering heavily modifying the stock to mount an asa and tank in/under it...

View Post1-I, on 07 December 2010 - 08:21 AM, said:

Couple things I like here
1- you were not afraid to visually scar the A5 for its better, nice.
2- you seem to have experimented instead of research, also nice


To the subject of your site, Ive been running that same sight setup in my A5 and the problem I have with it is that my stock sits too high for my head w/mask to line up. I only mention this because if you ever decide to change the stock make sure it has a drop to it so you dont have the same problem I do. Otherwise Hell yeah to optics at an angle.


Overall I have to like the entire setup, looks so much like mine that I cant love what youve done.
ok, Ill go out and find you one of these

Posted Image


1- Thank you One Eye (which I've thought was 1L forever hahaha)! But I have to admit I'm not that brave :( It took me a couple years before I came to terms with the fact that I was going to have to cut my baby...
2- And thanks again the first M4 setup had no experience or research behind it, I just tried to make it feel like an actuall gat I had used on ranges. Then from there I played with it: decided what I didn't like, thought about what I'd prefer instead and kept, scraped, or replaced things on a case by case basis.

After reading this I actually looked up your page and found a pic of your setup to see what you were running. I see you got that lapco offset sight mount, I actually have the exact same part haha! I was uber pissed when I got it though because specops described it as a 45* offset weaver, and it was actually a 45* offset dovetail which my sight didn't attach too! So I had this ridiculous akward setup to make it work with the weaver to weaver well... it's all up there, no point in re-describing it. Nonetheless it still isn't super easy to get your eye behind the thing even with an effective offset is it? I find though that the need to squeeze your head against the stock creates a really solid mask/stock weld which keeps everything moving together and makes sighting way better when you're bouncing around trying to shoot on the run. While that's a rare occasion, it's an all important one when you find yourself needing to do so. Looks like you've got a little more clearence than me though. That longbow stock looks like it extends straight back while my G36 has a hump towards the front end, like a cheek rest for a raised sight, like on the real deal. Appearently my manufacturer was more concered with mimicing the G36 exactly than making a G36 STYLED stock that works well with a mask on. Another case in what I view as an epidemic of milsim manufacturers sacrificing paintball function for meaningless real world looks. They should be trying to find a highly function middle ground, sacrificing milsim lookingness for paintball function, not the other way around.

Anway, I digress as always. Looks like the longbow stock manufacturer had a little more sense and made a flat stock rather than including a cheek rest, but still no cheek WELL which is what paintballers obviously need. If they made a longbow folder and if I didn't already have a G36, I'd probably get one. But I do already have a G36 when my mag kit gets here I just might butcher it, give it an asa to mount a small tank out of the way of the magazine, AND cut in a cheek well, that would be sick! Also planning on making a custom RIS for the mag kit so this thread might have some awesome additions next year. EVOLUTIONNNNN!!!

Awwww.... you can't love it? They aren't that similar, mine doesn't have the double triger, and yours doesn't have a folding stock, and mine has a flatline RIS and at one time included a stub nose barrel and has a tac cap isntead of hopper... c'mon loooovvvveeeee it! Shamelessly solicited love it! Oh a Baby Seals of Approval! That's my favorite kind! Hey Legato, don't think I forgot about you! Where's my shamelessly solicited love!???

This post has been edited by Shipwreck!: 08 December 2010 - 01:30 AM

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#12 User is offline   Legato 

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Posted 08 December 2010 - 01:36 AM

View PostShipwreck!, on 08 December 2010 - 03:06 AM, said:

Why is it called Island/Hawaiin style? Yeah it's an A5 so the tank goes straight into the tombstone. I originally made the "marker builder" to experiment with setups for my 98, ironically in spite of it's simplified feed mechanism (lack there of) dubbed "The Jammy Gun". Although for the record those issues have been resolved.

Thanks Legato, actually the 3.5oz tank was a solution I was hoping to use with my vert air. Running the 3.5oz vs my usuall nine would save those uncomfortable few inches without the need to switch to a forward asa. I'll go with the forward asa though if I find the 3.5oz vert tank unsatisfactory for some reason, and be able to use the larger tank and still save those inches... Ooooh, that whole aiming up though would probably throw off my whole elevation thing. As is I can guess elevation for different ranged targets spot on almost every time. If aiming up with the hawaiian asa throws the velocity it will throw my estimates and I'll have to re-learn my gun! :( Oh well, I guess I'll just have to experiment with these different possible solutions and see which works best for me. Although I'm going to have a whole new can of worms opening up with this mag kit. I really don't want remote air, but where am I going to put a tank on the gun???? I'm considering heavily modifying the stock to mount an asa and tank in/under it...

Hey Legato, don't think I forgot about you! Where's my shamelessly solicited love!???

That style of mounting tanks started with a group of paintballers on an Island off the coast of Maine, hence Island Style. When some hawaiins played with them, they took that style back with them, and west coasters refer to it as Hawaiin style. (This was all BACK in the day, early days of PB). Now you can really just call it either.

Just know a 3.5 oz tank won't get many shots on an A5. So you will be filling often. It will not drastically effect the velocity, but it can swing it a bit. An anti siphon will fix that as it won't allow any liquid into the valve. Or a PPS stab, as that refuses to let liquid pass also.

I am not a cheap hussy, i don't just throw out unsolicited love. Mine must be bought like a high end whore named Mercedes or Crystal (like the liquor). ;)

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#13 User is offline   Shipwreck! 

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 02:00 PM

View PostLegato, on 08 December 2010 - 12:36 AM, said:

View PostShipwreck!, on 08 December 2010 - 03:06 AM, said:

Why is it called Island/Hawaiin style? Yeah it's an A5 so the tank goes straight into the tombstone. I originally made the "marker builder" to experiment with setups for my 98, ironically in spite of it's simplified feed mechanism (lack there of) dubbed "The Jammy Gun". Although for the record those issues have been resolved.

Thanks Legato, actually the 3.5oz tank was a solution I was hoping to use with my vert air. Running the 3.5oz vs my usuall nine would save those uncomfortable few inches without the need to switch to a forward asa. I'll go with the forward asa though if I find the 3.5oz vert tank unsatisfactory for some reason, and be able to use the larger tank and still save those inches... Ooooh, that whole aiming up though would probably throw off my whole elevation thing. As is I can guess elevation for different ranged targets spot on almost every time. If aiming up with the hawaiian asa throws the velocity it will throw my estimates and I'll have to re-learn my gun! :( Oh well, I guess I'll just have to experiment with these different possible solutions and see which works best for me. Although I'm going to have a whole new can of worms opening up with this mag kit. I really don't want remote air, but where am I going to put a tank on the gun???? I'm considering heavily modifying the stock to mount an asa and tank in/under it...

Hey Legato, don't think I forgot about you! Where's my shamelessly solicited love!???

That style of mounting tanks started with a group of paintballers on an Island off the coast of Maine, hence Island Style. When some hawaiins played with them, they took that style back with them, and west coasters refer to it as Hawaiin style. (This was all BACK in the day, early days of PB). Now you can really just call it either.

Just know a 3.5 oz tank won't get many shots on an A5. So you will be filling often. It will not drastically effect the velocity, but it can swing it a bit. An anti siphon will fix that as it won't allow any liquid into the valve. Or a PPS stab, as that refuses to let liquid pass also.

I am not a cheap hussy, i don't just throw out unsolicited love. Mine must be bought like a high end whore named Mercedes or Crystal (like the liquor). ;)



I don't want unsolicited love, I want shamelessley solicited love! Can I pay in reputation points?
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Posted 15 December 2010 - 03:20 PM

The best way to run CO2 Hawaiian/island style would be w/ a Palmers female stab setup. Though certainly not cheap, you're in luck as they are running a sale right now on exactly what you'd need.


View PostShipwreck!, on 15 December 2010 - 04:00 PM, said:

Can I pay in reputation points?

Idunno, would that violate the policy? :D
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Posted 24 December 2010 - 10:14 PM

View Postger, on 15 December 2010 - 02:20 PM, said:

The best way to run CO2 Hawaiian/island style would be w/ a Palmers female stab setup. Though certainly not cheap, you're in luck as they are running a sale right now on exactly what you'd need.


View PostShipwreck!, on 15 December 2010 - 04:00 PM, said:

Can I pay in reputation points?

Idunno, would that violate the policy? :D


Awesome thanks!

I don't know, I can't muster the interest to read said policy. But I would assume so... I'll get my lawyer on it maybe he can find some kind of loophole...
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