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perpetual motion device Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   gameystar333 

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 05:54 PM

i had thought today i heard of a motor that runs on temp differences if you conected the out put to a generator that heated a glow plug would it run forever

or hook it up to a fan and cool it


these things can run off the heat of your hand if geared right

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This post has been edited by gameystar333: 30 October 2007 - 05:55 PM

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#2 User is offline   Stang  

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 05:59 PM

wow.....poor design much?

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If you want an awesome engine check out the nuclear engines that power the Navy Carriers these days, they "fill up" once every 13 years....pretty good mileage huh?
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#3 User is offline   Marauder_Pilot 

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 06:02 PM

Perpetual motion is a myth. There is always a loss of energy that prevents perpetual motion.
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#4 User is offline   gameystar333 

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 06:06 PM

but half of the energy is produced through the air at room temp
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#5 User is offline   H3 Proto 

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 06:06 PM

Perpetual motion is impossible...period.

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#6 User is offline   Aegis 

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 06:08 PM

Neat, but not perpetual. It still hast to abide the Law of Conservation of Energy and Thermodynamics. In the loop you've suggested, you'd lose energy each time it 'cycled' in the form of radiant, unabsorbed heat among other things, eventually causing the system to shut down when it reaches a critical low.

As for half the energy being provided by the room temp, that might be so, but that would negate it being a perpetual motion machine. The machine has to essentially perform in a vacuum; there can't be any outside influence on the machine. In this case, the room temp being high enough to provide some power would make it an open system, when it needs to be closed.

This post has been edited by Aegis: 30 October 2007 - 06:13 PM

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#7 User is offline   deathinator6 

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 06:09 PM

Not impossible, its just not very likely that we'll ever make one.

Also my friend made a sterling engine for his science fair project, he said that they can run off of hot stuff or cold stuff and they're pretty cool... yeah...

This post has been edited by deathinator6: 30 October 2007 - 06:11 PM

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#8 User is offline   Styro 

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 06:11 PM

energy is never created nor destroyed, only released, contained, or changed in form.
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#9 User is offline   gameystar333 

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 06:14 PM

but it can afford to loose half of it's heat/energy because it is getting half of its heat from air

This post has been edited by gameystar333: 30 October 2007 - 06:15 PM

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#10 User is offline   WardenWolf 

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 06:18 PM

It's called a Stirling Engine. And yes, perpetual motion is an impossibility.

The Law of Conservation of Matter & Energy: Matter and energy are interchangeable, and the total amount of matter and energy in the universe is constant. However, some energy is always becoming unavailable for use.

It ties in with entropy and other concepts. Basically, perpetual motion is impossible.

This post has been edited by WardenWolf: 30 October 2007 - 06:18 PM


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#11 User is offline   Aegis 

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 06:23 PM

View Postgameystar333, on Oct 30 2007, 09:14 PM, said:

but it can afford to loose half of it's heat/energy because it is getting half of its heat from air



But then its not a perpetual motion machine, as its receiving something from an outside source. A perpetual motion machine comes in one of two types:

1 - It produces more energy than is originally input.

or

2 - It is a system in which once started, will not stop, and requires no additional input of energy to do so.

Yours would be an example of 2. So, lets say you have a room with a temperature of 100 degrees, and you place your machine in it. You connect it to a battery and start it up, and it produces heat and absorbs heat to produce energy to produce more heat. This is all well and good, for awhile, but Thermodynamics states that heat WILL dissipate, and eventually, enough will escape the room that you'll have less energy than is required to power your device. Energy will be lost. There is no such thing as a perfect insulator, so eventually, entropy will take its toll and the machine will stop.

If you're really interested in something like this, research Richard Feyman's Brownian Rachet idea. Its kind of similar.

This post has been edited by Aegis: 30 October 2007 - 06:24 PM

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#12 User is offline   Jackson 

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 07:26 PM

Richard Feynman! My physics professor is OBSESSED with him.

Feynman was pretty cool.

But on topic like the others said perpetual motion is an impossibility due to thermodynamics.
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#13 User is offline   Philipp122 

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 07:43 PM

View PostMarauder_Pilot, on Oct 30 2007, 09:02 PM, said:

Perpetual motion is a myth. There is always a loss of energy that prevents perpetual motion.



View Post_WARRIOR_, on Oct 30 2007, 09:06 PM, said:

Perpetual motion is impossible...period.

-Warrior


Sceintists realize that perpetual motion is impossible of course, but the challenge for centuries has been to get as close as possible. This "challenge" actually inspired ideas that contribute to the fact that we have cars today. The idea was to build a highly efficient engine that was connected to a magnet/wire-coil assembly (you might know it as an electrical generator). When the engine was first used to power regular vehicles, the idea of perpetual motion had been tried and tested enough times for engineers to be smart enough to add a power generator to your regular automobile. The engine works the generator that puts out enough energy to power all of the vehicle's electronics. Then came the electrically powered cars of today:

Electric motors are, in esscence, the exact opposite of a generator. Instead of a rotating magnet causing the flow of electrons in the wire coil to generate electricity, an electric motor sends power through the wire coil to turn the magnet. Kind of cool how electric motors utilize generators to power themselves, isn't it?

Point is, even with a brushless electric motor powering a generator, energy is still lost somewhere; in this case, the power used to propel the car forward. Perpetual motion is impossible, but scientists are constantly getting closer.

This post has been edited by Philipp122: 30 October 2007 - 07:44 PM

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#14 User is offline   P V 

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 08:04 PM

there is a machine, that claims perpetual motion .. i saw it on discovery channel.. its a ball bearing that run a around a circular track, on the track are spring that it depesses that move a counter weight that drop magnets up and down infront of and behind the ball... supposedly , the springs are not strong enough to stop the ball and the magnets are strong enough to always accellerate the ball back up to its original speed before hitting the next spring... thus it moves around the track over the 4(i think) springs all by itself.

now then, i think i do remember it has been tested to work by a third party.. i think.. i don't remember the name of the device or the guy who made it.. but i'm sure anyone interested could google it with the discription i gave... i'm sceptical of such devices, but this one seems to have some merit. whether it perpetual, or may just take 100yrs to stop, i don't know.

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This post has been edited by P V: 30 October 2007 - 08:21 PM


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#15 User is offline   gameystar333 

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 08:12 PM

link?
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