Special Ops Paintball: THE REAL SPOTTER - Special Ops Paintball

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THE REAL SPOTTER Advice from the Bushwhackers Rate Topic: ***** 1 Votes

#1 User is offline   Blue Shark 

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Post icon  Posted 12 March 2006 - 08:32 PM

Hold up! B) :)

I've seen alot of people posting in this forum talking about spotters as if it is a great position for a beginner or "sniper in training". Well I disagree.
A spotter has to be an EXPERIENCED player who knows just as much about concealment as the shooter, or sniper. The spotters job is not to follow the sniper around to get tips on how to be a sniper in the future.
Before I go on let me back up a bit. You see a lot in the SpecOps videos about snipers or "ghost flankers" running off on their own and shooting people at random. In my opinion(and the military's) a sniper should not work alone, especially on a long range mission(which for the sake off argument will be any further than 100 yards from the main group). He should have a spotter with him.
What should a spotter be/do? A spotter should help the shooter know how good his concealment is and visa versa. He should cover the security around the themselves so the shooter can concentrate on taking the shot(s). He will also be the man to cover the sniper's retreat in case it is required.
I know this is contrary to many people's opinion about a paintball sniper and a paintball spotter, but this works and I wouldn't have it any other way.

P.S. No, I am not a sniper. I was once. (And I don't mean just one game)
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#2 User is offline   Femur Breaker 

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Posted 12 March 2006 - 09:18 PM

I have never used a spotter, and I do not plan on it. I see where it might be a great help, but my style does not seem to be a good one for using a spotter. Lets just say they would have a hard time keeping up with me, as I do a lot of split second decision making.

So this is an opinion that is not based on experience. I will agree that you make good points Blue Shark. What you defined as a spotter seems like a good representation to me, although I do like the idea of possibly helping new snipers by using them as a spotter. Although not the best idea, it is a great way to help others get experience.

A sniper should be able to work alone if they use proper concealment though. Knowing when to move and how to keep hidden is a great asset, and without a spotter you should have an easier time of this. A spotter is one more thing to have the enemy see. So while they can help you get out of a situation, I can see where they might actually be responsible for getting you into that situation. I almost see it as a double edged sword.

But remember, I have no personal experience with a spotter, so don't take this too literally. I love criticism as well.
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#3 User is offline   Blue Shark 

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Posted 12 March 2006 - 09:30 PM

In some ways I agree with you. After all it is paintball, so many things work. I don't have much of a problem with snipers working alone, however, I don't like how many people like to do their own thing when they play as a sniper. In other words, running off without coordinating with their team. You probably don't do that btw.

Another thing I should have mention earlier that might set a few people off is that I think using a sniper is a waste of manpower in the first place unless you have over 10 players or so.

Agree or Disagree
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#4 User is offline   stickjock 

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Posted 12 March 2006 - 09:55 PM

I could see it as a waste of man power yes... then again, I can also see it as a very good tactic...

Just an example mind you, and no, I've never played a sniper before... You've got 8 guys... CTF game, the team sends out 5 guys on attack, leaving 3 to defend their flag... if you have someone that has some experience as a paintball sniper, it might work out to have him get into a position, IF possible to give overwatch cover to the two remaining defenders... Opposing team's attacking force comes in, while concentrating on the "obvious" defenders... the hidden sniper can assist in taking out the attacking force...

Just a theory, but in certain circumstances, having a sniper on your team, even one with fewer than 10 players, can help to even the odds a bit...


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Posted 12 March 2006 - 10:00 PM

View PostBlue Shark, on Mar 12 2006, 09:30 PM, said:

In some ways I agree with you. After all it is paintball, so many things work. I don't have much of a problem with snipers working alone, however, I don't like how many people like to do their own thing when they play as a sniper. In other words, running off without coordinating with their team. You probably don't do that btw.

Another thing I should have mention earlier that might set a few people off is that I think using a sniper is a waste of manpower in the first place unless you have over 10 players or so.

Agree or Disagree

Sounds like you should read this first to help clear up the "waste of man-power" comment...

Second, ALL snipers should maintain radio/visual communications with the team at all times. An experienced sniper could "lone wolf" it, but you are not coordinated as you said Shark. I think that is one of the biggest problems with new snipers honestly besides lack of skill and patience. Without proper coordination, only then do you become a "waste of man-power" IMO...



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#6 User is offline   Blue Shark 

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Posted 13 March 2006 - 06:36 AM

Exactly.
Oh and good article (the one you linked). I agree completely.

One problem is we've gotten a little off topic (more my fault than others). Putting the whole sniper thing aside, lets just talk about spotters.
1. Like em or don't like em? Why?
2. What should they do? (What I said, or other?)

That should keep things simple.

Imput welcome.
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Posted 13 March 2006 - 06:54 PM

View PostBlue Shark, on Mar 12 2006, 11:30 PM, said:

In some ways I agree with you. After all it is paintball, so many things work. I don't have much of a problem with snipers working alone, however, I don't like how many people like to do their own thing when they play as a sniper. In other words, running off without coordinating with their team. You probably don't do that btw.

Another thing I should have mention earlier that might set a few people off is that I think using a sniper is a waste of manpower in the first place unless you have over 10 players or so.

Agree or Disagree


I really will have to try out a spotter at some point or another, so at this point my opinion is really not well formed. I will tell you though that the use of radios for communication is something that is needed if the sniper expects to be successful. There is no other way to tear apart the enemy if you are unsure about relative locations and can get in touch with your team. You can still do it, but you are missing out.

Also, I believe that a sniper is not a waste of manpower. They can tell the team important locations and players positions, as well as tear apart the enemy and slow them from getting the flag. Just because they do not always tally up kills is no reason to disregard their power. Not that you are, but just so people know my feelings on it.

So as far as the original question, again I do not know enough about spotters yet. Rest assured, if anybody ever wants to be my spotter, then I'll take the opportunity.
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#8 User is offline   Blue Shark 

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Posted 14 March 2006 - 08:33 PM

Agreed. Although, couldn't an OP do the same thing?: gather intelligence about the enemy position.
And I don't think snipers are a waste of manpower because they do not rack up kills. Kills don't matter as long as the team wins. All I'm saying is if your team is already fairly small(less than 8 players or so) sending out a sniper takes away for the fire superiority and security of the main element.
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Posted 14 March 2006 - 09:39 PM

View PostBlue Shark, on Mar 14 2006, 10:33 PM, said:

Agreed. Although, couldn't an OP do the same thing?: gather intelligence about the enemy position.
And I don't think snipers are a waste of manpower because they do not rack up kills. Kills don't matter as long as the team wins. All I'm saying is if your team is already fairly small(less than 8 players or so) sending out a sniper takes away for the fire superiority and security of the main element.


I will agree that the size of the team can limit the effectiveness of the sniper. I play with about 6-7 other people, so at times the teams are only 4 people. Needless to say I don't usually play as sniper when the numbers are like that. My team needs me to be right with them at times. I do still get oppportunities to use my skills as a sniper though at times, which is nice.

I really agree with that. If your main force is getting flanked easily and demolished, it could have something to do with you having one less guy when the numbers are low. The team can always step up and make up for it, but when you are dealing with a really good team it could be a huge weakness. So it all depends, but a larger team is more likely to need a sniper at times for sure.

Good point.
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#10 User is offline   Blue Shark 

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Posted 15 March 2006 - 06:30 AM

Yes, a large team can make good use of a sniper. I have the same problem with my team (not enough people to spare a body).
But I have a question for you: If your team was about 14 strong and you had a sniper, would you also spare a man for a spotter to go with the sniper? I just want opinions. No answer is necessarily the right one. And I know alot of people have not tried the sniper/spotter combo, but we can go by the theoreticals.
Your thoughts?
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#11 User is offline   dtached shadow 

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Posted 15 March 2006 - 03:34 PM

A little tidbit of info from John Plaster's book "The Ultimate Sniper"

The spotter should be the most experienced person out of the two . The reason the book stated was due to the fact that the spotter is the person who gages the distance , wind conditions , confirms the shot , and determines whether a follow up shot is necessary because the sniper temporarily looses sight of the target through recoil and debris kicked up from the blast .

Some of that obviously doesn't apply to paintball . IMO The paintball spotter should still be the more experienced player of the two . One reason already stated above , to make sure the sniper is properly concealed . More reasons include : to radio intel back to the commander , to take follw up shots at primary targets , to provide coverfire incase the situation gets sticky . This last one is very important as to why the spotter should be the more experienced player . More experienced players are generally better at handling themselves and not getting eliminated when outnumbered . I personally don't want someone "in training" as my backup when it hits the fan .

This post has been edited by dtached shadow: 15 March 2006 - 03:35 PM

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#12 User is offline   Black Fox 

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Posted 16 March 2006 - 09:00 PM

Would I employ a sniper and a spotter if I had 14 men on my team?

Not in a standard game. Of course, I tend to find most "snipers" not to be real snipers (by my definition). Old topic, I don't mean to pound sand but I think that real paintball snipers work independently and probably NEVER in a typical woodsball game. Their simply isn't the time and missions that there is in scenario games for someone to crawl, slither, and creep for that OSOK on an enemy general. However, I do believe that squads can employ a scout (or two) to serve in a "point man" or "flank security" role. These guys would possibly wear ghillies (or half of one) and definetly would act in the way most people think of snipers. This is the SpecOps sniper definiton... Of course these two could work independently (defensive ambush) but normally they would be in support of a squad. For example: you need to breach a defensive line by quietly approaching and simultaneously eliminating two enemy sentries. The two-man scout team can crawl forward, pop the two guys, and then take on the role of a normal squad memeber once the rest of the squad moves forward to exploit the breach.

Hopefully that makes sense to somebody... its kind of tough to explain it.

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This post has been edited by Black Fox: 16 March 2006 - 09:03 PM

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#13 User is offline   famousgamer 

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Posted 16 March 2006 - 10:45 PM

Sniper spotters. I do not mean for this to sound like a flame.... but come on people. A sniper spotter, realisticly would, at best, be just another sniper close to a sniper. This is paintball people. Paintball. Say it with me now. Paintball. A 20 minute round. Capture the flag. Paintball.

Even on an all day scenario, I would never have a dude hangin that close to me, "spotting". Id tell him to get to work and provide a very usefull battlefeild function. One sniper being a ghillied doormat on the feild is plenty for a 300 foot radius.

If I am playing defense on a flag station, give me 3 snipers 300 feet apart in the correct angels. That does the work of 6 men if done right, and leaves more to the offensive. If you use "spotters", that becomes 6 men doing the work of 6 men, making it pointless, and too much manpower dedicated to tasks of little or no use.
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#14 User is offline   Blue Shark 

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Posted 17 March 2006 - 07:40 PM

Quote

A little tidbit of info from John Plaster's book "The Ultimate Sniper"

The spotter should be the most experienced person out of the two . The reason the book stated was due to the fact that the spotter is the person who gages the distance , wind conditions , confirms the shot , and determines whether a follow up shot is necessary because the sniper temporarily looses sight of the target through recoil and debris kicked up from the blast .

Some of that obviously doesn't apply to paintball . IMO The paintball spotter should still be the more experienced player of the two . One reason already stated above , to make sure the sniper is properly concealed . More reasons include : to radio intel back to the commander , to take follw up shots at primary targets , to provide coverfire incase the situation gets sticky . This last one is very important as to why the spotter should be the more experienced player . More experienced players are generally better at handling themselves and not getting eliminated when outnumbered . I personally don't want someone "in training" as my backup when it hits the fan .


I agree with you, dtached shadow. You made my point better than I could.
As for what famousgamer said, obviously you wouldn't employ a sniper in a 20 minute round. I'm talking big paintball games, like scenarios. And like yourself, I don't mean to flame, but I don't know anyone who has played a game as short as 20 mins, except speedballers. My games last up to 2 hours a lot of the time.
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