Special Ops Paintball: PB Rants - Special Ops Paintball

Jump to content


  • (6 Pages)
  • +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • Last »
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

PB Rants Rants on what I see Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   Meline 

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1,107
  • Joined: 22-July 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Van down by the River, WY
  • Brigade Name:Meline

Posted 19 March 2012 - 08:31 PM

So who am I, why should you listen to me, and what is the point?

First off; You shouldn't listen to me. What I say is not gospel, I am no more a paintball authority than you are. My opinions are just that; My opinion. You might agree with what I say or you may not and that is fine with me. So if you shouldn't listen to me what's the point of even writing this? I'm writing this because I wanted to write my observations and spew my opinions aboout paintball in the hopes that may-be my opinions could be of benifit to someone. I wanted to write this here because I consider myself a "woodsballer" at heart, I have a soft spot for this site, and sometimes I feel this place could use my opinions.

So who am I? My name is Meline, no it really is. I go by other names at other sites like everyone else though. On Pbn I'm "Lazarusrat" and on PBReview I was "Rugrat". I'm an electrical engineer, a member of the National Guard, and I'm older than dirt. I've been deployed, been shot at and almost blown up. I've been playing paintball regularly since 2001 and I'm a terrible speller (engineers are good math doers, not good english writers). I own a stacked tube blow back, an autococker, a Traccer pump, a NXT Shocker, and a Fusion FX. I play speedball with the locals usually 2 to 3 times a month, woodsball when I can, and I try and play a few scenario games a year which I like best.

Why you shouldn't upgrade anything
It seems almost herisey to say to it and you can call me hypocrital because about the only thing still stock on my cocker is the frame, and my stacked tube nothing is stock anymore but that is exactly why I'm saying it. Unless you are using CO2 with out a regulator don't waste your money by buying upgrades. The reason why I sayy that is your performance increase the aftermarket part will give you Vs. the money you will spend on the upgrade is minimal. Seriously if you spend $200 on an entry level gun, then spend $300 on aftermarket parts to make it perform like a decent marker, you are still left with a $200 gun that has a lot more do-dads on it. So if I don't advise buying $300 in upgrades what do I recommend???? Play paintball. $300 will get you more than a few games in. Most new players play once or twice, get teh bug, go completely ape crap buying an entry level gun, upgrading the crap out of it (wasting a ton of money), realize that no matter how much they upgrade it they still have a entry level that has all the failings of an entry level gun, buy a mid priced gun, use that for a while, buy a high end gun that they brag about that they only keep for a few years and then get rid of because it doesn't really perform that much better than their mid range gun. So instaed of doing all that I say just play. Play 1 or 2 seasons with your entry level gun and then buy something you don't need to upgrade.

Brand new high end guns are the bigggest rip offs in the paintball world
So what's the difference between an Ego12 and an Ego11? About $600 and a bunch of sales hype. If you want to buy a high end I say more power to you but lets be real here teh performance gap between the high ends and the mid rangers are almost non-existant and with the constant yearly releases of "new" high end guns by the manufactures you can rest assured that in 1 years time your gun will loose a good chunk of its value. You can buy a brand new this yer's model DM or you for $300 less you can buy a brand newlast year's model DM that comes with a I4 and a rotor. It's amazing just how much a year makes.

Delussions of the mechanical marker
Yeah sure, your mech will never go down because your battery died. It will never short out because of hurrician driven rain. Nor will your cyclone ever fail because the motor fried but seriously a single 9V will last an entire season of paintball and they are dirt cheap compared to actually playing paintball. You have to be a complete retard to let your battery die and take you out of a game. Secondly most decent guns have an OLED board that displays batttery life so you know when your battery is getting low. Mechs won't short out. Yeah that's true but unless you're taking you gun deep sea diving with you are playing in monsoon rain that is turning your paint in to mush you aren't going to get enough water inside teh grip frame to cause a short. Finally IF your motor fries you are screwwed, but the odds of that are so smalll its just not realistic. In fact your air hog of a clone is WAY more likely to run you out of air than a fried motor will cause me to go out.

(don't worry more rants to come)
CPPA #2701

aka Lazarusrat
0

#2 User is offline   The Stuntman 

  • I feel like I'm taking Crazy Pills!
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Administrators
  • Posts: 2,721
  • Joined: 06-September 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Santa Cruz CA
  • Brigade Name:The Stuntman

Posted 20 March 2012 - 09:50 AM

Quote

So what's the difference between an Ego12 and an Ego11? About $600 and a bunch of sales hype.

THIS for the win :tup:
I couldn't agree more - Ive been saying pretty much the same thing for years.
0

#3 User is offline   Thalion 

  • Probably in the Shooters Thread...
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 2,984
  • Joined: 22-January 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Twin Cities, MN

Posted 20 March 2012 - 10:19 AM

The high ends may be more efficient than mid range markers, but I never carry a case of paint on me, so why should I care if I can "only" get 1200 paintballs to an air fill.

I'm content to forever remain in the realm of mid range gear.
Member of Team Akkadian

0

#4 User is offline   stinkfingr 

  • Sophomore Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 683
  • Joined: 10-June 08
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 20 March 2012 - 05:33 PM

the only reason i would say to upgrade would be that if you need replacement parts, you would be assured that you could find them readily available. but even then, you can upgrade to the same medium grade and not choose to go high end.
0

#5 User is offline   redthirst 

  • AVOID THE NOID!
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 208
  • Joined: 27-July 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The South <-- this used to be more specific... but then somebody snitched on me.
  • Brigade Name:WrightPower

Posted 21 March 2012 - 09:13 AM

I approve of this rant.
Masters of awesome whom I don't BOINK with: Montresor, long_baller, JerseyPaint, Deschaine, brokepballer, Frontier Bill, Bookworm, TREE FITTY (he's a zombie), THIS COULD BE YOU!

Feedback: Spec Ops, MCB, PbN, eBay
0

#6 User is offline   Krazy8 

  • User Defined
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Retired/Inactive Moderator
  • Posts: 2,555
  • Joined: 30-January 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rathdrum , ID
  • Brigade Name:Krazy8

Posted 21 March 2012 - 10:08 AM

Some of us like our high end guns and are willing to pay more for the performance difference.

After you spend a good bit of time using a supergun....it is very hard to use something else.
0

#7 User is offline   Meline 

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1,107
  • Joined: 22-July 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Van down by the River, WY
  • Brigade Name:Meline

Posted 21 March 2012 - 12:56 PM

Response to Rants
You may like your high end, and you may be willing to pay more for it, but that still doesn't change the fact that a in March 2011 a brand new Dye NT11 costs $1,549.95 and in March 2012 that same NT11 costs $999.95. It lost $500 of its value just sitting on the shelf, next year when teh 2013's come out it will lose even more value until it drops to $500-$700 price range. That means that a 1/3rd of what you pay has NOTHING to do with performance, efficiency, or quality; it has to do with being this year's model. That is why "High end" guns are rip offs.

Leadership
Like all good stories this rant begins with… So there I was, playing in the Buckaroo Bonzia scenario game. One of the conditions of this game where that the “key” characters could not be shot IF they held their markers above their heads. As in most games these characters were played by selected, well known, players. Anyway getting back to my story, so there I was… I had pushed my way to very front of our forces and there at the very tip of our side I found about 6 or 7 players in a shallow dried up irrigation ditch that were taking fire from both the front and the exposed left flank. Standing behind those players was one of the “key players” holding his marker above his head, literally screaming at and berating these players for holding a defensive position and not attacking (even though from a tactical stand point it would be a mistake to launch an attack). Now this really upset me because to me the KEY word in leadership is LEAD and NOT the “ership” part. Lead; as in “lead by example”, ” lead from the front”, and “lead, follow or get the hell out of the way”. A good leader inspires other by their actions, not through coercion. If any of you reading this take anything away from any of my rants I hope it’s this “Lead people the way you want to be led”
(So some of you might be curious what I did about the situation. I told this guy “If he wanted us to go on the attack we were right behind him, otherwise to shut up”. He then said something about me “being a puss” and walked off. The funny part is we did go on the offensive, right after we held our line from a reinsertion attack. I wouldn’t say “I led” the counterattack because it was kind of mutual thing between those of us that were left because our position sucked but I was one of first out of the ditch)
CPPA #2701

aka Lazarusrat
0

#8 User is offline   Krazy8 

  • User Defined
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Retired/Inactive Moderator
  • Posts: 2,555
  • Joined: 30-January 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rathdrum , ID
  • Brigade Name:Krazy8

Posted 21 March 2012 - 08:01 PM

The same concept of loss in value is given to all new items, so your comments are very easy to grasp. My recent gun itself has lost 1/3 of it new msrp value in 19 months....but I feel that loss justified by the amount of pleasure I have had using it. Value is in the comfort and happiness of the owner.


Ooooo....scenario rants!

How about special role playing characters who refuse to interact with the game or its story line! Arg!
If you wanted to run around and shoot people all weekend cool! Just don't take a role that involves points for both teams based on story line interaction. Grrrr.
"Hey, are you the scientist?"
"Yeah."
"Can we talk about these plans I found and how to defuse this device?"
"No, I don't wanna."
He walked off. ?

Or....one on one combat with hero characters...winning team gets points. Duels played with one player challenging another for an honor duel either on the field or in the staging area challenges could be made. The other team refused all duels for the event....so their hero characters were fancy players.

Ohhhoo....rule changes mid game! Stabstabstab!

So many bad things seen...so little time to rant!

This post has been edited by Krazy8: 21 March 2012 - 08:10 PM

0

#9 User is offline   The Stuntman 

  • I feel like I'm taking Crazy Pills!
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Administrators
  • Posts: 2,721
  • Joined: 06-September 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Santa Cruz CA
  • Brigade Name:The Stuntman

Posted 21 March 2012 - 11:56 PM

View PostMeline, on 21 March 2012 - 12:56 PM, said:

You may like your high end, and you may be willing to pay more for it, but that still doesn't change the fact that a in March 2011 a brand new Dye NT11 costs $1,549.95 and in March 2012 that same NT11 costs $999.95. It lost $500 of its value just sitting on the shelf, next year when teh 2013's come out it will lose even more value until it drops to $500-$700 price range. That means that a 1/3rd of what you pay has NOTHING to do with performance, efficiency, or quality; it has to do with being this year's model. That is why "High end" guns are rip offs.






My issue is that I dont think that the amount of performance increase is worth the extra cash price paid. Its not that the uber-high end guns arent extremely good, its just that they're not good enough to justify their price tags.
And I cant believe that each year's model is actually $300 better than last years. The improvements may be "real", but are generally too incremental to count.
I
0

#10 User is offline   Meline 

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1,107
  • Joined: 22-July 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Van down by the River, WY
  • Brigade Name:Meline

Posted 22 March 2012 - 10:31 AM

getting better at paintball
Now I don’t want to make it sound like I am PB Rambo, Ollie Lang, or Mr. Uber-Ninja because I’m not. I consider myself an average, experienced player whose skills match that of an average experienced player. One of the questions I hear from time to time is “How do I get better at paintball” (esp. from newer players at scenario games)?

You want to know how to get better at paintball? Play speedball. Don’t worry I’ll wait a little bit for your head to stop spinning around before I continue. Yes that is right, I said “if you want to get better at paintball play speedball”. So how can I say such a thing? Listen; you can be the sneakiest woodsballer in history, you could be a ghost in the woods, part tree, or completely invisible for that matter and you will get 1 or 2 ambush eliminations when you open up but what happens after that? Once you start shooting, your element of surprise is gone and people know where you are. Or what happens when you play in a scenario game and join a human wave during a reinsertion where you are more of a Grunt than a Ninja? Your survival depends on your ability to fight and win a gun battle.

So the Real question becomes “How do you get better at winning a gun battle”? You practice. You practice using cover, snap shooting, shooting under pressure, maintaining a low profile, moving under fire. You practice by being in fire fights, you practice speedball.
CPPA #2701

aka Lazarusrat
0

#11 User is offline   motherboard1 

  • Sophomore Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 359
  • Joined: 30-June 06

Posted 23 March 2012 - 03:53 PM

The thing you said about the dead batteries. This seams simple and true for you, and you can't understand why players will let the simplest of things knock them out of the game. But you need to remember, and especially this day and age, people just aren't as self sufficient as they used to be. The paintball experience is based around surviving a million little examples just like that one. You'll usually have one guy with his act together for every 5 helpless sandbaggers. But this isn't the army, you don't own them, and you don't pay them. So telling them they are retarded because they don't stay on top of the little things, isn't going to fix the problem. They don't need to learn, they can just quit. Whats left of the Industry needs to pick up the slack on their side if they want to survive.

Most of what you said is true for you, and for paintball as you see it, but understand it can be a far different game for you, than it is for the next group.

Outlaw ball is still hanging on fairly strong where I'm at, with a pretty steady heartbeat for the past 10 years up untill now, but it is getting harder to find new players. As it is, paintball was like a wave, and now the wave has passed, everyone has tried it, and most were delivered a week enough experience, that they no longer consider it to be worth their time or money. You can blame the economy all you want.

Paintball starts in the imagination. Then you buy the gear. Then you have the experience. Then you judge its value to you. But not everyone has the same experience.

Whats left of the Industry needs to understand the big picture if it ever wants to breath life back into the game. Far too many of the companies involved in paintball gear in general have been parasitic in nature towards their market. It needs to start with the Gear, and the companies aren't going to do it for us, we need a formula for what works and we need to support it for newer players, and put down any equipment that relies too much on the human element.

I can name names of probably no fewer than 20 people who I know have been driven out of the game specifically because of being fed up with problems related to the gear they buy. Masks are the first offender, being a science in and of itself, the cheap ones being uncomfortable and fogging easily. The expensive ones not having a double lense that can hold up to water without falling apart. And needing to buy and install an aftermarket fan that won't work at all without home alterations to the mask body that the company would advise against.

I know when your gear is great, and you understand it and maintain it, you want others to be on the level. But they won't, they aren't all like you, they don't want to study paintball, they just want to play it.

If it's not simple like Call of duty : black ops where you just push the power button and all your guns work, and your bullets don't blow up in your barrel, and you don't ever fog up(I don't care). Then you just lost 90% of people right there. Some on the first day. Some after a few months of steady play. But in the end you still lost em.

I have and sometimes use what I would consider possibly the most unreliable, high maintenance and complicated Marker known to man, and represents to me the recent downfall of paintball. It's a Qloaded SP8. But I have only a very slim list of Gear that I recommend(push on) newer players.

The first is the mask. A full head JT Flex 8 with a Vortex 2 fan. A hole is cut for the fan, and a thick bead of silicon is put into the outer edge of the lense in the recess between the inner and outer lense. Without this I have seen countless new thermal lenses lose their cohesion and separate because of the slightest water exposure. Unfortunately, the replacement lenses now have the black gasket flush with the edge of the inner lense, which means there's no room for silicon anymore.

The second is the marker. Stick to the Tippmann line. The most high tech marker you should advise on a new woodsball player is a Phenom. The Cyclone is a godsend. Don't talk to me about how simple other aftermarket loaders are to set, or change batteries for, I know, but I could still roll my eyes in disbelief 10 times a day at the simple things players fail to keep on top of.

Tippmann needs to keep their bore sizes big, or even up them a bit. Many groups attempt to play all year round and are devastated by two things when the weather sets in. One of them is C02, which isn't even a problem here because everyone is on HPA. The other is the brittleness of all paint in the cold. You can't play outdoor paintball for long in 25 degrees Fahrenheit even with a stock Tippmann barrel. Not without extraordinary measures, or reaching for the squeegee every 10 shots.

The last thing I'll mention is the paint output. Ramping is not killing paintball. It's the divide between players who's concept of paintball is shooting 1-2 cases of paint a day, vs players who's intention is to shoot 500 balls out of his tippman 98.

And there are so many other little things that can be done. For example, Marker manufacturers, could make their barrel condoms big enough to fit over the nose of almost any hopper, and should be Blue on the inside, and Red on the outside, so it can be flipped inside out and placed over the nose of your hopper to represent team colors, that brings more organizational efficiency into the everyday game. Patten Pending :P

And somebody needs to teach classes on successful field design and game styles

Oh, and somebody needs to market the counter-strike bomb.

Now that's A Rant.

This post has been edited by motherboard1: 23 March 2012 - 04:02 PM

0

#12 User is offline   stinkfingr 

  • Sophomore Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 683
  • Joined: 10-June 08
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 23 March 2012 - 04:29 PM

i dont know, you bring up some good points, but i think it has always been about the shared experience for me. I have never, and will probably not ever go paintballing by myself. I have gone to the point of having everything for at least 1 more player to suit up and play when I do, in case they don't have any gear, and i could probably dig up enough for two more guys, minus just a few minor items, which could be had at a field. the ramping, the tactics, all of that don't mean anything when a couple of buds, or group of guys that are out there just having a blast shooting at shadows, ghosts, and sometimes even a real person. as long as the emphasis is on fun, people will enjoy themselves and get more out of it and come back.
0

#13 User is offline   Krazy8 

  • User Defined
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Retired/Inactive Moderator
  • Posts: 2,555
  • Joined: 30-January 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rathdrum , ID
  • Brigade Name:Krazy8

Posted 23 March 2012 - 04:42 PM

Cyclone a Godsend...if you have fixed as many as I have you would rethink that comment. The local field can not keep parts in stock, more commonly we simply loan out another gun to the afflicted player so they can enjoy the rest of the day.


Playing in the cold is not really a difficult thing....especially when seasoned players share knowledge with rookies.
Overbore
Store paint in a warm area during game day and rotate paint between games. Store your gun in a warm area between games.
Clean barrel between games as well....condensation screws with accuracy.
Don't wear goggles on top of your head between games, heat from your head warms the lens and the cold air condenses on it...condensation is worse than fogging and can effect thermal lenses in cold weather.
Do not carry excess paint, only take what you plan to shoot. Below 20° your paint shell becomes brittle in about 15 minutes when kept in pods while you play.

I no longer recommend the JT Flex masks to new players. Simply too hard to replace the lens. I recommend the Avatar. Lens change in 30 seconds...and you can still silicone seal the air gap spacer between the lenses. If players can not afford the Avatar, the less expensive Cylus is sold with a thermal lens.
0

#14 User is offline   motherboard1 

  • Sophomore Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 359
  • Joined: 30-June 06

Posted 23 March 2012 - 05:29 PM

View PostKrazy8, on 23 March 2012 - 04:42 PM, said:

Cyclone a Godsend...if you have fixed as many as I have you would rethink that comment. The local field can not keep parts in stock, more commonly we simply loan out another gun to the afflicted player so they can enjoy the rest of the day.


Playing in the cold is not really a difficult thing....especially when seasoned players share knowledge with rookies.
Overbore
Store paint in a warm area during game day and rotate paint between games. Store your gun in a warm area between games.
Clean barrel between games as well....condensation screws with accuracy.
Don't wear goggles on top of your head between games, heat from your head warms the lens and the cold air condenses on it...condensation is worse than fogging and can effect thermal lenses in cold weather.
Do not carry excess paint, only take what you plan to shoot. Below 20° your paint shell becomes brittle in about 15 minutes when kept in pods while you play.

I no longer recommend the JT Flex masks to new players. Simply too hard to replace the lens. I recommend the Avatar. Lens change in 30 seconds...and you can still silicone seal the air gap spacer between the lenses. If players can not afford the Avatar, the less expensive Cylus is sold with a thermal lens.


Loving the cyclone for about 4-5 years now. Many of my friends use them with 0 issues as well, though I do remember one guy had a broken ratchet years ago. This goes back to the Manufacturer side of things I talked about.
I won't accuse you of grossly exaggerating your experience with cyclones because your a pro speedball type setup kind of guy, but maybe there were a run of sub par parts for a while, I know Tippmann had created problems like that in the past.
I'll add that Tippmann should auto include aluminum ratchets in every Cyclone.

Aside from that, the rest of what you said is common knowledge to the knowledgeable. My whole point is that the shared knowledge thing isn't enough. The solution needs to be built into the Gear, or you will continue to watch the shared knowledge approach lead paintball into oblivion.

Oh, and there is no warm place in the woods, in the snow. Talk about coolers and hot water bottles and heating packs etc. etc. if you want to. But it comes back to impracticality again.
0

#15 User is offline   Legato 

  • AKA reapermen - AKA Legaqua - Resident Brass Whore
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Retired/Inactive Moderator
  • Posts: 8,771
  • Joined: 02-February 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Milford, Massachusetts

Posted 24 March 2012 - 06:45 AM

The cyclone was the bane of my existence as long as I used my a5. Literally broke every single game of play I had. Can't tell you how many times I had to sit out the rest of the day over a $1.50 part. I learned to buy in groups of ten so I could have a supply on hand and got exceptional at changing them out in under 5 min. But it still was garbage. Much happier when I moved to an electric Hopper. And even happier when I went to a stock class feed.

As to practicality of storing your stuff in warm spots...it comes down to how badly you want your gear to perform well. Big teams will all get together and everyone brings their part. One brings coolers, one brings heating pad, etc. If you do it as a group it actually works great and Is very easy to do. Having a tent/canopy to stay under and give a bit of warmth also helps, especially in rain or drizzle.

I see no problem with high end manufactures charging what they do. Can we yell at Lexus for charging $20k more then the Toyota it is based off? Whynot? Cause its their choice to charge what they want. And if someone is willing to pay, more power to them. They can use what they want I will play with what I want. Sure electros are overly expensive...but clearly there is a market or they would have been forced to lower prices years ago. Do I buy brand new? Not usually unless its a custom piece. In this sport it is far more thrifty to buy used. But I won't be upset that every year the same kid buys the brand new X marker and sells his old. Its his money. He can do what he wants.



Sent from my cat's brain...using telepathy.
"I think wearing camo is dishonorable. No honorable player would pretend to be a tree or bush."Posted Image My Gallery - Ninja/Pirate Alliance - Marker Animations Posted ImageSpec Ops Posted Image Pump CrewSig Rules - Gen Rules & Regs - Avatar Rules - Warn Level/Reduction - Forum FAQs - Ultimate Pump Sticky - PDT
0

Share this topic:


  • (6 Pages)
  • +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • Last »
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users