Special Ops Paintball: PB Rants - Special Ops Paintball

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PB Rants Rants on what I see Rate Topic: -----

#46 User is offline   motherboard1 

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 07:04 AM

Who's talking about image? I attacked your stance defending cheating in paintball, that's it. I couldn't care less about image.

One person cheating is rampant enough, and the ol "if you don't like it then leave" is hardly a valid argument in favor of whipers.

This post has been edited by motherboard1: 21 April 2012 - 07:20 AM

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#47 User is offline   ^!) 

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 11:50 AM

Meline, a poster I agree with on many levels and whose opinion I believe is valuable, was talking about image. I was simply arguing semantics on one thing, and that is all. Then I did my own little rant on people whining and sucking, which I'm sure does not apply to Meline in the least.




If you think one person wiping is "rampant cheating", then I guess what happens EVERY DOWN in the NFL between linemen is just... enough to ruin football's image, ruin the game for everyone, and makes football not worth playing. No. It's an unfortunate part of the game, which if caught, gets a penalty. Just like paintball games.
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#48 User is offline   motherboard1 

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 04:02 PM

View Post^!), on 21 April 2012 - 11:50 AM, said:

Meline, a poster I agree with on many levels and whose opinion I believe is valuable, was talking about image. I was simply arguing semantics on one thing, and that is all. Then I did my own little rant on people whining and sucking, which I'm sure does not apply to Meline in the least.


You quoted me, not meline.
If you want my opinion on "the image of paintball", here it is. The decline of your "sport" has nothing to do with its image.

Quote

If you think one person wiping is "rampant cheating", then I guess what happens EVERY DOWN in the NFL between linemen is just... enough to ruin football's image, ruin the game for everyone, and makes football not worth playing. No. It's an unfortunate part of the game, which if caught, gets a penalty. Just like paintball games.


There's cheating, and there's penalties, and it's unfortunate.
That's where the similarities end. The effect on the functionality of the game greatly differs.

My concern is with function, yours seams to be with image.

Keep wiping and telling yourself and others don't worry about it, that it's just like a foul in any other game, and your gonna be a "paintball pro" someday with your wiping skills. You won't have to worry about image. No paintball players, no image, right?
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#49 User is offline   ^!) 

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 05:23 PM

View Postmotherboard1, on 21 April 2012 - 03:02 PM, said:

You quoted me, not meline.
If you want my opinion on "the image of paintball", here it is. The decline of your "sport" has nothing to do with its image.

I quoted meline first, then you quoted me, then I quoted you. Are you believing what you see, or just seeing what you already believe?

And the decline in paintball has nothing to do with how the game is played. The economy is what causes paintball to grow or shrink in participation, not anything you or I can, will, or won't do during a sunny sunday afternoon.






Quote

There's cheating, and there's penalties, and it's unfortunate.
That's where the similarities end. The effect on the functionality of the game greatly differs.

My concern is with function, yours seams to be with image.

Keep wiping and telling yourself and others don't worry about it, that it's just like a foul in any other game, and your gonna be a "paintball pro" someday with your wiping skills. You won't have to worry about image. No paintball players, no image, right?

1. You're absolutely correct in claiming that my concern was with the image. I kind of stated that in my first post, and... have referenced it in ALL of my subsequent posts. Congratulations, you can read!

2. The effects of being caught cheating in paintball are different than the NFL or MLB... it's much worse in paintball. You get a loss of maybe 15 yards for blatant cheating in football, but that's it. You can lose half of your team in a paintball game, which nearly ensures a catastrophic loss.

3. "You're going to be", not "your gonna be". Semantics.

4. Please don't act like you know who I am or my habits on the paintball field.

5. If you want to start an argument about cheating in athletic activities... you will lose. During the massive expansion in paintball from 2001 to 2004, cheating was still there. Paintball grew, despite what you may think about the effects of cheating.

This post has been edited by ^!): 21 April 2012 - 05:27 PM

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#50 User is offline   Meline 

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 12:18 PM

^!),

Glad to see you back here as well as being at ST:M. I know cheating happens, you know it as well. It happens in other sports as well BUT I've never heard a Coach go on record and say "Yeah, we meant to hit the batter with the inside curve ball. Deal with it. Don't hate the pitcher, Hate the game." Nor have heard fans say "So what if he face masked? That's BS the Refs called him on it, everybody does it. When you play at that level, the pressure to win forces you to face mask. If you don't like it than you shouldn't play. Until you play in the NFL you need to I CAN'T HEAR YOU! LALALALA! if you don't like it." But I think we all have seen that in PB. That is what I hate and that is what I feels kills or image.

This post has been edited by Meline: 23 April 2012 - 12:19 PM

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#51 User is offline   ^!) 

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 03:07 AM

View PostMeline, on 23 April 2012 - 11:18 AM, said:

^!),

Glad to see you back here as well as being at ST:M. I know cheating happens, you know it as well. It happens in other sports as well BUT I've never heard a Coach go on record and say "Yeah, we meant to hit the batter with the inside curve ball. Deal with it. Don't hate the pitcher, Hate the game." Nor have heard fans say "So what if he face masked? That's BS the Refs called him on it, everybody does it. When you play at that level, the pressure to win forces you to face mask. If you don't like it than you shouldn't play. Until you play in the NFL you need to I CAN'T HEAR YOU! LALALALA! if you don't like it." But I think we all have seen that in PB. That is what I hate and that is what I feels kills or image.



...this forum died, meline... what happened?




Ya know.. a while ago, the ESPN Sportscenter commentators were arguing about fights in hockey, because a few got out of hand. Some said it was simply part of the game, while others said that fighting should be eliminated entirely, and was ruining the image. I suppose paintball will have the same arguing for the remainder of its existence.

The "accepted" cheats are playing on (for an extremely short time) and overshooting (again, for a short amount of time). There's actually very little wiping at the upper divisions of play. Alas, there will always be cheating, as long as there is a prize to win.

I'm the kind of guy that says "well, that sucks... i'll just have to shoot them twice".
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#52 User is offline   Meline 

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 06:55 AM

I don't know what happend to SO.

To be honest I just came back a few weeks ago and decied to try and breath some life back in to it to see what happens.
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#53 User is offline   Krazy8 

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 11:24 AM

What happened?

Well many of the regulars actually grew up and have decided to look at other things in the world.
The economy bitch slapped more than a few others.
SpecOps changed ownership a few times resulting in decreased customer retention.
And demand for woodsball only gear is faltering...most folks play paintball anyway they can so specialized gear is becoming a nitch market.
Oh...and every other company out there is now offering tactical gear...leading to market saturation and former loyal customers bending to buy other gear made by the big names.

There are a few more related issues that only a choice few folks understand but that should give you an idea. If you look, you can see the path of desertion on the forums.

This post has been edited by Krazy8: 24 April 2012 - 11:25 AM

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#54 User is offline   stinkfingr 

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 05:14 PM

lol ... facebook happened. i'll guarantee you that if you know who the players are on here, and used to be on here, they are more active on FB than they are on here.

people can get their paintball fix, and get their other social networking fix all at the same time.
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#55 User is offline   The Stuntman 

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 11:04 PM

View PostKrazy8, on 24 April 2012 - 11:24 AM, said:

Well many of the regulars actually grew up and have decided to look at other things in the world.
The economy bitch slapped more than a few others.
SpecOps changed ownership a few times resulting in decreased customer retention.
And demand for woodsball only gear is faltering...most folks play paintball anyway they can so specialized gear is becoming a nitch market.
Oh...and every other company out there is now offering tactical gear...leading to market saturation and former loyal customers bending to buy other gear made by the big names.

There are a few more related issues that only a choice few folks understand but that should give you an idea. If you look, you can see the path of desertion on the forums.


Yeah, pretty much

Quote

lol ... facebook happened.


This too.
---
I find that there are so many other form of online communication available, there just isn't the time or need to keep up with every forum. I can only spend so much time a day online & theres alot of stuff to do...
But, I still like the good 'ol Spec Ops Forum...even if for mostly sentimental reasons.
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#56 User is offline   SFC. Connell 

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 11:52 PM

Quote

There's cheating, and there's penalties, and it's unfortunate.
That's where the similarities end. The effect on the functionality of the game greatly differs.

My concern is with function, yours seams to be with image.

Keep wiping and telling yourself and others don't worry about it, that it's just like a foul in any other game, and your gonna be a "paintball pro" someday with your wiping skills. You won't have to worry about image. No paintball players, no image, right?

Quote

1. You're absolutely correct in claiming that my concern was with the image. I kind of stated that in my first post, and... have referenced it in ALL of my subsequent posts. Congratulations, you can read!

2. The effects of being caught cheating in paintball are different than the NFL or MLB... it's much worse in paintball. You get a loss of maybe 15 yards for blatant cheating in football, but that's it. You can lose half of your team in a paintball game, which nearly ensures a catastrophic loss.

3. "You're going to be", not "your gonna be". Semantics.

4. Please don't act like you know who I am or my habits on the paintball field.

5. If you want to start an argument about cheating in athletic activities... you will lose. During the massive expansion in paintball from 2001 to 2004, cheating was still there. Paintball grew, despite what you may think about the effects of cheating.



Damn. Took him to school. I've been away from these forums for a long time now too. In that time away I have grown in my paintball "career" if you may. Not all skill, but more knowledge. And ^!) Your right. Paintball will continue to grow regardless of cheating. Where it hurts is for the "new" kids joining getting destroyed by people cheating. But like everything new, if you want to become better you keep playing/practising.

I understand cheating is something that many people are afraid of in this sport, especially when playing against someone cheating. But it must be known that it will NEVER be gone from the sport. Just put a couple more shots into the kid and move on in the game. That and believe in karma lol.

Anyways, I may lurk around these forums a little mroe now that I had tiptoed my way back in. Glad to see it's still somewhat active.
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She faked a funeral so people would come visit?
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#57 User is offline   FreeEnterprise 

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 05:33 AM

First off... I love Tippmann's and recommend them to all my players. They work. Every time, other than a ratchet issue in my A-5 (had the old style white one, broke a few of them over the years, in severe cold, never during a game, only when I would walk outside in freezing temps and fire off a few) Every time I have played with my old used A-5 it worked.


I get 1,400+ shots out of a 20 ounce Co2 tank in average temperatures... with my A-5. I take 2- 20 ounce tanks to the field and I very rarely run out of air, (when I notice it starting to drop off, I change tanks).

For the money, the A-5 is an unbelievable marker, super dependable, easy to take apart (but you rarely ever need to) and looks cool with hundreds of mods available if you are into that kind of thing. The 98 is even more dependable, as it doesn't have a cyclone, and the alpha black, or salvo are the same as the 98... I can't believe someone wouldn't recommend those, they work, are easy to find, can be purchased used for almost nothing, and are the most popular markers ever made for a reason. I often carry a few with me at my field, so the spyders owners who always have issues in the cold can still play with one of my extra Tippmann's.

http://blip.tv/trail...see-why-6101170



Now as far as cheating goes... That is the biggest problem with paintball in my opinion. You make some crazy move on the field, come into the back of the other teams camp and the player that you ONE SHOT killed goes behind a bunker and wipes the paint off and then dead man walks until he is close enough to you to shoot you out...

THAT is by far what is wrong with paintball. And it happens all to often in our game.

Of course if you surround yourself with ethical, honorable people you don't have to deal with that, and that is why I run my own PRIVATE field... I control who attends, if you are ready to play by the rules EVERY TIME and play honorably, then you get invited back. If you cheat, see ya, life is too short.


But, at public fields you can't control that... So cheating is rampant. In that video I posted above, I got "eliminated" by TWO dead players, that I had just taken out of the game, but in typical "normal public field" paintball conditions, they cheated. One ran behind the bunker and wiped, and the other I barrel tagged, and he fussed and griped and then shot me in the back while I was walking away...


THAT is paintball in a "public" setting. It happens so often it is expected. Why get mad, as you are dealing with people with low moral standards, who don't respect themselves much less anyone else. It is the "ME" mentality.

If you want paintball to grow, you need to get rid of the blatant cheating, and promotion of wiping. Shoot on pbnation last week, a kid posted a video of himself wiping, and countless comments were to the effect of "we all cheat".


Cheating stinks and messes up the sport, every single person that I talked to about paintball that "used" to play, but quit, has told me about an instance on the field where someone cheated bigtime, and they just had enough and sold their gear.

Want to fix the sport, get rid of the cheaters...


I'm seriously considering taking the footage I have on film and making a bunch of "cheater" videos to shame the cheaters I have captured on film over the years when I play in public. I have video proof that is unmistakable, you can SEE the paint hit, and break and the yellow paint on the player, and see him run behind a bunker... And come out with NOTHING on him where there was paint seconds before...




At my field we play if you are hit, you are out. PERIOD. Paint doesn't need to break. As that rule just promotes players calling "bounce" and wiping... When they know they got hit. It also promotes bonus balling, as you want to make sure at least one broke on the player...
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#58 User is offline   SFC. Connell 

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 11:16 PM

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If you want paintball to grow, you need to get rid of the blatant cheating, and promotion of wiping. Shoot on pbnation last week, a kid posted a video of himself wiping, and countless comments were to the effect of "we all cheat".


Where I have a problem with in your statement is "promotion of wiping" I have NEVER in 10 years seen or hear anyone promote wiping or cheating in general to another player. Idk if it's where I come from or what, but if you cheat around here in New England you get lit up. Simple as that. I'm not puffing my chest out, I'm telling you what I have seen and done to cheaters who are caught. They get shot 2X's more than necessary and they learn that their actions are what caused that. I don't like cheating, and I don't cheat. But I do understand and accept that it is in the sport and with there is a consistant amount of new players and kids who want to be able to compete with the experienced players, I do expect it and don't see it going anywhere. It doesn't necessarily hurt the growth as I see so many 11-14 year olds show up every weekend for their first time out, and then I see them again the next weekend mixed in with another group of newbies. So cheating doesn't stop the growth. What stops the growth of our sport is how we treat the new kids. Take them under your wing, encourage them, be funny and lighthearted. When you first start out, getting shot is scary and to have someone make jokes or do something dumb and get shot 10 times and come back laughing about it, makes a new player feel A LOT more comfortable to get shot himself and learn the game. That's what makes new players keep coming back. Their first time should be nothing but fun and good memories. Not pain and anger. Simple as that.
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She faked a funeral so people would come visit?
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#59 User is offline   ^!) 

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 11:31 PM

I'm now having an internal conflict as to whether I should go completely off the wall, and play devil's advocate.
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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#60 User is offline   SFC. Connell 

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 01:31 AM

Go for it. This forum is half dead anyway lol
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She faked a funeral so people would come visit?
ROFLMAO That's both terrible and hilarious at the same time.-Pirate
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