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#136 User is offline   5N1P3R 

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 12:14 PM

View Posttrustme, on Jun 17 2010, 02:07 PM, said:

Cockerpunk hoping that mike will require a registration for both sides for the lynch mob is very low. Why? yea them guys did it so what why go out and try and make matters worse? does it make you feel better? just go play ball have a blast like i know you did!


I am pretty sure he was being sarcastic just to prove a point...
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#137 User is offline   Thalion 

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 12:18 PM

Slight detail - Cockeprunk wasn't the guy who said that. I bring the quote from the post:

View Postjaldrich-techpb, on Jun 17 2010, 12:07 PM, said:

Next year I hope Mike requires all 60 (if not more) Lynchmob members to purchase 2 cases of paint and 2 registrations, one for each team. That way when someone pulls this bull crap spy stuff mike can just have everyone on the Lynchmob taped up for the other team and drop 60 guys in their spawn to teamkill....*cough* I mean assassinate the other team.




I wasn't there, but I hear about this types of things at every major scenario event it seems. It's too bad, because some scenarios I went to have been great fun. Others were a total bust.

My honest opinion? A scenario now and then is fun when you don't take it too seriously (my biggest flaw in those events is taking the score and outcome too seriously, even if I don't cheat). I'm trying to step back from them and go to maybe 1-2 a year.

This post has been edited by Thalion: 17 June 2010 - 12:20 PM

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#138 User is offline   Tyger 

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 12:18 PM

View PostMike Phillips, on Jun 17 2010, 01:43 PM, said:

If it's all about the loopholes in the rulebook, then why do we spend so much money on paint? Why even show up with a paintball gun?


Again, for the sake of debate, let me turn this around.

Years ago I played in the old USPL format. This was Y2K. the format was, basically, X-ball. We played periods, flag hangs weren't the end of the game, just a reset. 7 man, game stoppages, penalties, all that. It was X-Ball, just in a prototypical format. So far so good? Ok.

The captains meeting was... Well it was interesting. In much the same way an autopsy is interesting. Arguments, people fighting to have the rules interpreted THEIR way, all out mental brawls. It didn't stop there, the arguments went through the whole event. There was a captains meeting, on the main field, and even after being told how the rules were to be enforced they were STILL fighting on how to interpret them up to the FINAL GAME!

I remember a guy, Paul Bolenbeck I think his name was (nickname "PGP", played for a Florida team that was sponsored by AGD at the time) saying to me that his JOB was to argue the rules, fight the ultimate, and have the rules bent to benefit his team using any means he had at his disposal. If that meant badgering the ultimate for the whole event, so be it. The idea was to pour over the rules, find the ones that are best suited to your needs, and exploit them or the lack of them.

Thing is that I've seen this in other tourney play too. The All Americans were notorious for rules lawyering their way through events. And I now PLENTY of local tourney payers who could cite the NPPL rules chapter and verse. I know some NPPL players who wear the clothing they do because "The rules allow it" and not because they need it. So if we're going to single out one thing, let's look across the board here. It's not just scenario players who push the rules. the difference may be that in X-ball, you can get "instant revenge", which isn't healthy either.

On my USPL team shirt, I have a patch that says "FYBIPPB". I put it on there after the captains meting before the event, and carried the attitude through the whole event. If you don't know what it stands for... Let's say it's an old school way to say "shut up and play".

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#139 User is offline   trustme 

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 12:19 PM

View Post5N1P3R, on Jun 17 2010, 03:14 PM, said:

View Posttrustme, on Jun 17 2010, 02:07 PM, said:

Cockerpunk hoping that mike will require a registration for both sides for the lynch mob is very low. Why? yea them guys did it so what why go out and try and make matters worse? does it make you feel better? just go play ball have a blast like i know you did!


I am pretty sure he was being sarcastic just to prove a point...


Alright i wasnt trying to call him out just bring up the point that if someone did that it is pointless for the game and has no possitive reasoning behind it if someone did.
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#140 User is offline   CapnStank 

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 12:20 PM

[Offtopic]
Scenario

I apologize, but I had a hard time reading your message to get the point.
[/Offtopic]

But I'll completely agree with you. There's really only a couple ways to approach the scenario when one team is "bending the rules".

1) Stop playing, find the ref and WHIIINNNNEEEE
2) Cheat yourself
3) Rise above it, pummel their ass into the ground with skill and coordination

Which route are you proud to say you've taken? I'm pretty damn there's only one answer that you want to bring forward when you're re-telling the story years down the road.

But PLEASE don't rant on about 'how much better your team was'. Sure you won, but poor sportsmanship isn't for the losing team only.

EDIT: I had no idea this topic was as active as it was. This post was directed at Cockerpunk who was the most recent poster when I clicked the "respond" button.

This post has been edited by CapnStank: 17 June 2010 - 12:25 PM

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#141 User is offline   Mike Phillips 

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 12:34 PM

I go to paintball events to play paintball.

If I want to look for loopholes, I'll start studying the IRS Tax Code

I'm there to jog to the front, and try to battle my way up the field and take as much ground for my team. Once I get shot out, I start over and do it again.

Personally I think scenario event rules should be 1,700+ pages of fine print boilerplate on legal paper, written by attorneys. And every player should have to sit through a mandatory 8 hour orientation and pass a 400+ question test at the end. Because based on what I've been seeing at some of these scenario events, that's what it's getting to.

"Well I didn't read that I couldn't spray paint the lenses of my opponents black when their mask was sitting on the table"

"Why yes, we covered that. In subsection 198, paragraph 12 it says "Players caught spray painting black paint on the lenses of opponents will be assessed a 62 point penalty"


Meh, is it too late to register for PSP Chicago?


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This post has been edited by Mike Phillips: 17 June 2010 - 12:36 PM

Yes, I already know that profanity is not allowed on this forum
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#142 User is offline   Tyger 

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 12:54 PM

View PostMike Phillips, on Jun 17 2010, 02:34 PM, said:

Personally I think scenario event rules should be 1,700+ pages of fine print boilerplate on legal paper, written by attorneys. And every player should have to sit through a mandatory 8 hour orientation and pass a 400+ question test at the end. Because based on what I've been seeing at some of these scenario events, that's what it's getting to.

Only if we can do the same for tournaments. As I said, I know a LOT of tourney guys who are as bad, if not worse, than scenario players when it comes to rule lawyering. 4 hour captains meetings? been there, done that.

Come to think of it, it may not be a bad idea to do the same for rec-ball too. Most of those guys don't know how to unset their gun to go off when a fly sneezes on the other side of the planet, they could use a test for safety rules too.

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#143 User is offline   CapnStank 

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 01:01 PM

View PostMike Phillips, on Jun 17 2010, 01:34 PM, said:

I go to paintball events to play paintball.

If I want to look for loopholes, I'll start studying the IRS Tax Code

I'm there to jog to the front, and try to battle my way up the field and take as much ground for my team. Once I get shot out, I start over and do it again.

Personally I think scenario event rules should be 1,700+ pages of fine print boilerplate on legal paper, written by attorneys. And every player should have to sit through a mandatory 8 hour orientation and pass a 400+ question test at the end. Because based on what I've been seeing at some of these scenario events, that's what it's getting to.

"Well I didn't read that I couldn't spray paint the lenses of my opponents black when their mask was sitting on the table"

"Why yes, we covered that. In subsection 198, paragraph 12 it says "Players caught spray painting black paint on the lenses of opponents will be assessed a 62 point penalty"


Meh, is it too late to register for PSP Chicago?


See that's taking it a little too far to the extreme. (I know you're being sarcastic) A simple rule stating "No player is allowed to touch, alter or harm another player or his/her equipment in any way" is a rule that's simple to understand and covers a LOT of potential issues. Sure the wording could be flipped a bit for improvement but it covers the standards.

They're not asking for law classes and such to write rules, they're asking that rules are written without clauses that say 'please' or what have you that generates 'wiggle room'.

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As long as we live someone will be trying to 'game the system'. My opinion is that the way to discourage that is to make the penalty for getting caught making the overall experience for players worse should outweigh the benefit of doing it in the first place. This routes right back to the entire parent post of this thread and starts making an extremely complex system of rights and wrongs but the solution to it isn't to complicate it more but to simplify it so that its understandable and not open to various forms of interpretation.
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#144 User is offline   Thumper113 

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 01:06 PM

View Postjaldrich-techpb, on Jun 17 2010, 12:07 PM, said:

View PostThumper113, on Jun 16 2010, 09:45 PM, said:

spies are allowed at viper games.. its all a matter of keeping an eye on players around you that you dont know.


So this year 60 out of the 140 people that TechPB brought to the game were "Lynchmob members". To be on the Lynchmob you were required to have certain items (apex tip) and buy a certain amount of paint. 60 people dropped the extra dough just to run with mike.

Next year I hope Mike requires all 60 (if not more) Lynchmob members to purchase 2 cases of paint and 2 registrations, one for each team. That way when someone pulls this bull crap spy stuff mike can just have everyone on the Lynchmob taped up for the other team and drop 60 guys in their spawn to teamkill....*cough* I mean assassinate the other team.


Maybe after LL4 is a complete bust because people are sick of the rules being exploited people will see that accurate rules are needed.

i hope so too because that would be my last event on the same field as techpb, and im sure i would not be the only one.. soo yea.. you have my support on that.

legal? yes.. but do you have any idea how much drama and BS that will cause? look at whats going on now, your all complaining about a few players doing it and so far ive only seen 1 picture of such player.. and saw myself a few buffoons on stage SAYING they got red armband tape and did this and that.. but you dont know that for a fact.. im sure its true but i did not personally see them do it, players from both sides did it.. and now your talking about having all 60+ members do it the "legit" way? please...

if you cant be happy regardless of results and or what happens on the field, get out of paintball. its just a game, and all about having a good time.

This post has been edited by Thumper113: 17 June 2010 - 01:09 PM

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#145 User is offline   LoneWolf99 

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 02:23 PM

This is exactly why I call "shennanigans" on these types of grey areas. Viper left a rule in the books with large enough loopholes to drive a paintball tank through & people exploited it.

KISS should apply here - you wear armband tape of your side only. If you're caught not wearing it, you have to leave the field & get re-taped - if you're wearing the wrong color tape, you get kicked off the field. This other stuff is garbage and just causes problems.
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#146 User is offline   IrishMack 

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 02:44 PM

I hate loopholes...my coach dove through a loop hole and it crushed my team, and we lost the weekend scenario...made me mad...
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#147 User is offline   Tenacious221 

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 03:34 PM

Viper doesn't require you to wear arm bands of your team. The implication there is that you're NOT allowed to wear the other team's armband.

Someone exploited it, and that's the topic this thread has been hijacked to.

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#148 User is offline   IrishMack 

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 03:42 PM

so if you don't have to wear your teams armband, why would you wear an armband...at that point wouldn't you have an advantage of the other team waiting a little longer before opening fire.
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#149 User is offline   Tenacious221 

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 03:45 PM

View PostIrishMack, on Jun 17 2010, 05:42 PM, said:

so if you don't have to wear your teams armband, why would you wear an armband...at that point wouldn't you have an advantage of the other team waiting a little longer before opening fire.


Because then your own teammates will shoot you too...

You're not gonna ever be able to tell all 700+ members of your team that you're the guy running around without any tape. B)

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#150 User is offline   IrishMack 

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 03:48 PM

well yeah I understand that, but provided you were attacking a particular objective with a squad and your team knew you would be coming in...wouldn't it make sense to hope the other team took a little longer looking for your tape.
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