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Ontario voting Referendum Political help needed! Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   Puzuma 

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Posted 06 September 2007 - 11:20 AM

I hate politics.

Having to vote for a specific party in your area then hoping that party gets enough votes in enough districts to form the Government is bad enough. Now they want us to vote on weather or not to CHANGE that.

Currently we use the "first past the post" method.

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What is First-Past-the-Post?
How does it work?

Ontario is divided into 107 electoral districts. In each district each voter gets one vote to choose which candidate they feel should win a seat in the provincial legislature. One vote. One ballot.

In an election using the First-Past-the-Post system, the candidate with the most votes wins and will be the representative for the electoral district in the provincial legislature.

After the election, the political party that wins the most electoral districts is normally asked to form a government.


The new option is Mixed Member Proportional.

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How does Mixed Member Proportional work? Part 1

If this system is accepted, Ontarians will have two votes in future elections: one for a ‘Local Member’ and one for a political party.

The provincial legislature would have 129 seats: Local Members’ would fill 90 seats while ‘List Members’ would fill 39 seats.

The political party with the largest number of seats in the legislature, including ‘Local Members’ and ‘List Members’, is asked to form a government.

In each electoral district, one vote would be used to elect a 'Local Member' using a First-Past-the-Post system. The candidate with the most votes in an electoral district wins.

The other vote would be for a political party. Votes for parties will be used to determine the number of 'List Members' each party gets. This is the proportional representation part.

If a political party is entitled to more seats than it won locally, 'List Members' are elected to make up the difference. 'List Members' can only be elected from a political party that received more than 3% of these votes.

In the end, a political party's overall share of seats will roughly equal its share of the total votes for parties in the province.

Anyone who meets the rules for eligibility can become a candidate for election as a ‘Local Member’. Some candidates are called “independents” while others represent a political party.

‘List Members’ are candidates from any registered political party. Before an election each political party prepares an ordered list of candidates they would like considered as ‘List Members’.

These lists, and the way they are created, would be made public well in advance of any election in a Mixed Member Proportional system.


I have a basic grasp on the difference: With the MMP I can vote 2 different parties.
What I don't get is what the advantages of each are.

Can anyone explain the dis/advantages of each?
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#2 User is offline   Deschaine 

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Posted 06 September 2007 - 11:34 AM

Wow. And I thought American politics was screwy. If Canadian politicians are like ours, you're going to see every election tied up in the courts, and nothing will ever get done.
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#3 User is offline   Puzuma 

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Posted 06 September 2007 - 02:07 PM

Sooo..... Even the forum political pundits are at a loss?
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#4 User is offline   slinkyaroo 

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Posted 06 September 2007 - 03:37 PM

the proposal:

The way I read it you vote twice. 1 vote for your local representative. 1 vote for a party.

Each party gets the same percentage of List seats as they get total votes.


ie - you vote a liberal in for your section because you like her. However you then can vote for the PC's as a party.

The local member is the same as we have now. But you get a second vote for the party. If the PC's win 50% of the party votes then they get 50% of the List Seats.


Sounds not to bad -- often we might like our local rep but hate the party they're with.



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#5 User is offline   Puzuma 

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Posted 06 September 2007 - 04:42 PM

I kind of figured that, but I just don't really see that as an advantage. It doesn't really simplify voting but seems to make it more complicated.
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#6 User is offline   Eskimo 

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Posted 06 September 2007 - 05:06 PM

Honestly Puz. I dont vote. Not because i'm a Anti-Goverment bimbo. Or because i'm simply not in the mood. Its beacuse Their all idiots. I dont want to vote for idiot one when idiot number two is my second choice.

The advantages of the one vote: This is much more simpler its one vote were everybody has an equal say. ( if 100% of our votes only make up the whole 60$.. is equal?. then were all good )
the two part vote is when lets say.

Mcguinty says " oh geeze blah blah I want your money ". and he wins with 5% over the opposition. Layton. who said " I love tax's. and by that I mean your tax money." losses by that 5%. the second part may be used to " Push" layton's vote total to 1% more then mcguinty.

You may not like layton but if you like somebody in his party, then you can vote for him instead of layton.

eather way its dumb the politions come up with stupid idea's to make them more money while the rest of us suffer. theirs really no "lesser of two evils."

you simply have a horrible choice that will cost you more money. OR you have a potentially horrible situation. ( And when if the goverment has been involved in something has it become good ? )
I'm not much for politics but If I see one of those wipers hiding behind their money and fake apologies I'm going to kill them.
( Watch the news. If it says parlement was attacked by an Angry vigalanty who was telling the politions to Go shove all their " Hard " earned money up themselfs. then yes it might be me.. )

We cannot let our Canadian employee's lose their jobs families and live's. - " Presidant " Dalton Mcguinty.
GMC just canceled the Third SHIFT. tell me how many employee's work on the third shift in a FACTORY? i'll tell you. one thousand two hundred people will not have Christmas in three months.. Puz You may be all the way in Kingston. but hey I'm in Whitby. were not that far apart.

This post has been edited by Eskimo: 06 September 2007 - 05:13 PM

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Posted 06 September 2007 - 07:21 PM

CANADAS A DEMOCRACY! :dodgy:
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#8 User is offline   Deschaine 

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Posted 06 September 2007 - 10:02 PM

Wow, reading Eskimos post makes me think that the US finally annexed Canada. lol. Your system is now just as convoluted as ours is.

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#9 User is offline   AaronC 

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Posted 07 September 2007 - 08:37 AM

The problem with the first past the post system is that a party can form a government while having a relatively small overall percentage of the total vote even as low as 30%. This system benefits the larger parties but effectively shuts out the small parties the Green party for example can't even dream of forming a minority government under the present system unless all the other parties were to be on a plane and that plane was suddenly to crash into the ocean or maybe a volcano. Even then the Green party would have to comb over the wreckage and shoot the survivors.
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