Special Ops Paintball: Optics/Scopes for Paintball-Info - Special Ops Paintball

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Optics/Scopes for Paintball-Info All the info regarding "sighting systems" ever needed!

#61 User is offline   Iron Eagle 

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Posted 30 December 2008 - 12:43 PM

View PostCrae Z Azian, on Dec 30 2008, 01:03 PM, said:

I have two questions:
1) Is there an advantage to having a sight that has both red and green dot choices?
2) If you have a stock that drops low enough that you could use a iron sights on your gun even with a mask, do you still need a riser or would it depend on what kind of sight you used?

Sorry this is a couple of months difference on the posts.


1. Sorry, can't help you there
2. Assuming you have an A-5 or 98, there is the Dogleg Stock. Look on the Spec Ops store.
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#62 User is offline   JustinHoMi 

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Posted 30 December 2008 - 12:44 PM

View PostCrae Z Azian, on Dec 30 2008, 03:03 PM, said:

2) If you have a stock that drops low enough that you could use a iron sights on your gun even with a mask, do you still need a riser or would it depend on what kind of sight you used?


If you can use the iron sights with your stock, then you should be fine without a riser. A riser might make it more comfortable though. I find that my neck hurts when bending my head down to the level of the sight (when using a stock). You might be able to assume a more natural position with a riser, depending on your stock.
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#63 User is offline   Stik 

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Posted 30 December 2008 - 10:49 PM

i have a $14 swiss arms red dot sight (really a cross +) its kindof cheap. all plastic i want to shoot it with a paintball to see what happens. probably going to break into pieces. i will get the $30 sight from wal mart next. the one i have is ok for looks.
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#64 User is offline   Death Envoy 

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 10:48 PM

*Sighs* What do you guys think the best raiser for my X7 would be? I have a Red + Tube-style sight, and a Collapsible stock.
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#65 User is offline   Renquist 

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 09:28 AM

Hmmm, I was the first person to reply to this original post and it is very informative and a great write up. However, I would like to address a couple of fall backs of using a scope that are unmentioned, because I think it may provide a more balanced analysis of the subject. This is not a flame or an attempt to discredit the information in this thread so please don't take offense. I also won't be providing any pictures.

I have used the common BSA from Wal Mart, as well as the smaller 4 X Daisy's and some dang other scopes before and even a laser-dot all in the name of being an ambush predator (NOT A BLOODY SNIPER) and after a couple of years and mixed results, have to share my experiences with others. Perhaps this will help out with people's choices.

First of all and I cannot stress this enough - if you do not have an accurate setup, then forget about it. Your 98 simply won't cut it. Mine is modded to heck and I haven't used in quite some time because my Cocker performs much better and I can depend on my accuracy. I do not use a scope on my Cocker because it's rather pointless and I get plenty of eliminations without it. My 98 was used by a friend at an all day game yesterday and performed like a champ (ROF actually surprised me, it's been a while) but it's still not accurate enough to warrant a scope.

Secondly, here's the funny thing with scopes. A scope is designed for use with a firearm which has a far superior range to a paintball marker. To put this in the simplest terms, the further something away is, the less it moves across your field of you when it moves. To imagine this, hold your head straight and picture someone 300 feet away moving 10 feet to the left or right. Do that again when they are 3 feet away an you will immediately recognize that perception is relative to distance.... and this has everything to do with using a scope in paintball. Because your effective range is so limited in paintball and perception of distance is quite significant, scopes can be a real pain. Someone at 300 feet is easy to follow when you're staring down a scope. Someone at 40 feet can be murder to follow if they're running. This is not an issue if you look down the side of your marker. The other issue with this - especially for woodsball because let's face it, that's who uses scopes - is that a target that leaves your perceived view for any period of time can effectively disappear. Your looking through your scope and he vanishes into a thicket of trees - and that's it. You move your scope one way or the other and to no avail - but if you'd just not been using it, you could have picked up on that tiny sign of movement outside of your perceived view and followed your target. This brings me to my last point...

Reliance on a scope is a waste of time. You will miss critical information if your perception is limited to what your scope provides. In all honesty as I have learned, save the money and spend some time practicing without one. Become a better Marksman without junk on your marker - make it lighter and easier to wield, do away with the uber long barrels and bells and whistles because in all honesty, none of that improves your game. A Paintball marker should be light, accurate, quiet, efficient and simply the most effective tool which acts as an extension of your paintball skills.

(Please note, many of the issues I have mentioned are user error - but many user's won't ever correct them. I also have no issue with milsim of overly-burdened markers, I appreciate a creative setup as much as anyone - but I don't see the purpose.)
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#66 User is offline   Shipwreck! 

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Posted 13 July 2009 - 11:35 PM

"A-5 can support both common rail attachments"

The A-5 is an excellent gun, I bought one about five years ago and dispite the ridiculouse punishment I've put it through over those years, I've never had to replace it, or even any of it's internals. But that doesn't mean it's perfect. That being said, the statement qouted above from the original post in this topic is untrue. Yes the A-5 does have a dovetail / weaver hybrid rail, however, all of the weaver rail attachments I've ever seen have some kind of bar or block (usually the mounting screws themselves) protruding from the bottom. These are positioned to fit into the grooves in the top of an actual weaver rail in order to prevent the attachment from sliding back and forth on the rail.

On of the biggist, and in my personal experience, most irritating design flaws in the Tippmann A-5 is that the dovetail rail above the weaver rail has no grooves in it! Which makes it impossible to mount any standard weaver rail attachments. I find this very frustrating because all they had to do is put grooves in the dovetail rail, this wouldn't interfere with the doevetail attachments but would allow weaver attachments to mount properly. Then none of us would have to buy aftermarket flat top rails in the first place.

On a side note: I find it a little funny that the image which said "A-5 can support both common rail attachments" actually showed a picture of an a-5 with a dovetail to weaver adapter on it! Which of course wouldn't even be manufactured let alone necessary if the statement right next to that picture were true!

In the end it's still one of the best guns out there anyway.

Renquist's post above mine raises some interesting and sound points. However there's alot more to be said on the subject. If your interested check back here next wednessday and I may have an article based on my own experience with optics on the paintball field.

This post has been edited by Shipwreck!: 13 July 2009 - 11:47 PM

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#67 User is offline   Shipwreck! 

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 12:07 AM

View PostJustinHoMi, on Dec 30 2008, 12:44 PM, said:

View PostCrae Z Azian, on Dec 30 2008, 03:03 PM, said:

2) If you have a stock that drops low enough that you could use a iron sights on your gun even with a mask, do you still need a riser or would it depend on what kind of sight you used?


If you can use the iron sights with your stock, then you should be fine without a riser. A riser might make it more comfortable though. I find that my neck hurts when bending my head down to the level of the sight (when using a stock). You might be able to assume a more natural position with a riser, depending on your stock.


Good point, comfort is an issue which is what led me to make a recent modification to my setup. I had a 45 degree offset mount that kept the sight in really close to the body but I also found that this hurts the neck after a while. So I just switched the setup to get the sight away from the body of my marker.

But this created a new problem. Now that my facemask is off the body of the gun it has become much more difficult to keep my eye behind the sight while moving, because my head isn't stabalized against the gun.

By the way, the point of red/green dot sights is that green light is much brighter than red. A red dot can be overwhelmed and disapear in glare on a bright day, while a bright green dot can stand out even against the desert on the brightest days in SoCal (in my experience). On the other hand, a target and background can disappear in the glare of a green dot on an overcast day or in a night game. That's where the red dot comes in handy.

My point is that there are ups and downs to every possible set up and the only way to find out which works best for you is to try it out. Just make sure theres a fair return policy on everything you get, so that if it doesn't work out you can take it back!

This post has been edited by Shipwreck!: 14 July 2009 - 12:14 AM

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#68 User is offline   Tim Burton 

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 05:25 PM

Actually, red is used for day and green is used for NVG. If you doubt me get a EOTech with NV and hit the NV button and see what colour it turns to.
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#69 User is offline   Shipwreck! 

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 03:59 PM

View PostTim Burton, on Jul 14 2009, 05:25 PM, said:

Actually, red is used for day and green is used for NVG. If you doubt me get a EOTech with NV and hit the NV button and see what colour it turns to.


NV is green dude. How would you even be able to see a green dot on a green NV background? Also NVGs multiply available light 1,000's of times, a light that can produce glare to the naked eye, like a green dot in an optic sight, would blank NVGs.

If your EOTech has a green dot for a night vision compatible setting it's a SPECIALIZED green dot that's WAAAAY dimmer so it won't blind the NVGs. That's not your usual red/green dot sight, very high end.

In any optic sight without a specialized night vision mode, like mine/ most optics out there, green dots are used because they're brighter and better for sighting in bright conditions.
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#70 Guest_Schecter_*

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Posted 15 November 2009 - 06:32 AM

Do they make a sight without the glass? I've noticed that is the big downfall of sights is how paint will get on the glass and dirty it up.
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#71 User is offline   Shipwreck! 

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 12:26 AM

View PostSchecter, on Nov 15 2009, 07:32 AM, said:

Do they make a sight without the glass? I've noticed that is the big downfall of sights is how paint will get on the glass and dirty it up.


They make iron sights which don't use glass, just metal tabs that you line up, draw back is that it takes more time to line up two metal tabs with eachother and with a target, than just put a dot on a target as in optics. But I'm sure you already know that...

They also make laser sights, draw back is that it reaveals your position and aimpoint. But I'm sure you already know that too.

Sooo... optic sights without glass. I don't think that's possible. I've certainly never heard of or seen it. BUT since the whole idea of optic sights is that you use both eyes to sight and the riticle seen by one eye is superimposed into the image seen by the other eye (by your brain) simulating the effects of a laser sight without revealing postion or aimpoint... you don't really need to see through the optic sight.

You can actually close the lens cover on the sight, as long as you keep both eyes open, one will see your target, the other will see the reticle and the images will be combined creating the illusion that the reticle is on the target. This will keep your lenses clean. BUT there's another but,

this will probably feel weird, take some getting used to, and be very distracting for a while. Even though you don't need too, you really are supposed to look through the sight and see with both eyes, that's why there aren't any optic sights manufactured that don't have a lens on the other side.

I find it easier just to deal with the dirty lenses, if my lens get too dirty to see through I use that trick, but inbetween games I have to clean my lenses and try not to get them dirty during games. It works best with both eyes.
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#72 User is offline   Caissey 

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Posted 22 August 2011 - 04:18 PM

Some images have disappeared on this thread.
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#73 User is offline   Shipwreck! 

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Posted 22 August 2011 - 05:24 PM

In the OP I only saw one dissapear and it wasn't that important. Looks like it was just an image of a dovetail rail.
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#74 User is offline   Caissey 

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Posted 22 August 2011 - 06:03 PM

Weird I can't see any images. :/
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#75 User is offline   Shipwreck! 

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Posted 22 August 2011 - 06:36 PM

Awwww... bummer.

No big deal though broski (you heard me!) this is all anyone really needs to know about optics in paintball anyway:

A) Scopes are useless in paintball.
Now before the snipers blow up on me, I'm not just hatin', and I'm not saying you shouldn't mount one if you want to. By all means, go for it. It's just that, technically speaking, the only reason one needs a scope is to sight in on targets so far away that it's difficult or impossible to clearly see and sight in on them with the naked eye. Any targets that far away are impossible to hit with a paintball. Any targets close enough to hit with a paintball can be seen clearly without any magnification. So yeah, not much point unless you just want it for looks, which is fine.

B) Optic sights are usefull in paintball.
They can be more accurate than your iron sights because they can be adjusted to reflect your markers grouping, vs the stock iron sights which probably just align in a straight line downrange. Optic sights also make it much easier and faster to sight in on targets, as well as making it possible to maintain an effective aimpoint while on the move. To zero your sight all you have to do is pick a range to zero it for, fire a fairly large amount of paintballs (maybe one bag approx 500 balls) from the marker from a fixed position (and I mean C-clamp kinda fixed not, "I tried not to move around" kinda fixed) at a target wall at the pre-determined range, then without moving the marker adjust the sight's elevation and windage such that the aimpoint retical in the sight appears at the center of the group of paintballs that hit the wall. Now your sight gives you an EXCELLENT point of reference that will tell you where any shot you fire is MOST likely to go. If you buy some decent paint and zero for a reasonable range 50-75 mayyybe 100ft, you could get a grouping not much bigger than the size of a human torso, which means when sighted in on a player's center mass at that range you will be more likely to hit them somewhere in the body than you are not to. Which is AWESOME! A lot of people seem to think that just because paintballs aren't pinpoint accurate means there's no point to aiming them at all, which is ridiculous. If you can fire a paintball and be 75-80% certain it's going to hit the guy, does it freakin' matter if it didn't hit the guy exactly on the aimpoint? No... no it doesn't. And if you can do that, you've already radically improved accuracy over point and shoot guestimation.

Aside from that, at other ranges for which your sight is not zero'd all you have to do is be aware that the range is longer or shorter and adjust your aim accordingly, just apply a little good old fashioned Kentuky windage. So if you're zeroe'd for 75ft and your shooting at someone 100ft away, just be aware that they're farther away and that the paintball is going to be lower by time it gets there, so aim a little bit higher than you normally would. Put the aimpoint on their center mass, then adjust so that it is sighted in on a point maybe a couple feet above the guy's head. Then so long as you've got some lateral consistency you can rest assured the balls gonna fall on the guy... so long as he doesn't see it coming haha!

That's it... that is literally all there is to optics in paintball.

This post has been edited by Shipwreck!: 22 August 2011 - 08:55 PM

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