Special Ops Paintball: Automag RT tuning - Special Ops Paintball

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Automag RT tuning Rate Topic: -----

#16 User is offline   questionful 

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 04:08 PM

View PostWardenWolf, on Jun 28 2008, 06:48 PM, said:

The o-ring is squeezed between the carrier and the white washer by the powertube tip. I actually have a feedneck that works on this same principle. There's a large rubber o-ring in between the twist top and the edge of the neck. When you screw the neck down, it exerts pressure on the top and bottoms of the o-ring, causing it to expand inwards. This works EXACTLY like the carrier and washer in a Level 10. The function is entirely the same. The outer diameter of the o-ring is fixed by the carrier. It cannot expand outwards. So when compressed along the flat side, it expands INWARDS. The shims add this vertical compression, resulting in horizontal expansion.

I know what you mean. I'm just doubtful it's true because you're the only person I've ever heard that from. None of the info I've read on the Level 10 ever mentioned anything of the sort. I am very interested in knowing where you read or how you acquired the information on which you base your theory? I think there's enough room in the powertube so the carrier is not squeezed, except by the pressure in the dump chamber. I always thought the backing washer was just a precaution against the powertube O-ring slipping into the dump chamber. I don't even have a backing washer, and my L10 still works fine. However I'm not going to consider your theory wrong simply because I've never seen it mentioned elsewhere. I decided to measure all my powertube internals to see if there is or isn't enough room for the carrier to be squeezed or not. Here's what I got:

powertube tip (the part that isn't visible when screwed into the powertube): .311"
shim: .01"
carrier: .216"
backing washer: I don't have a backing washer so I couldn't measure it; estimate: ~.03"
powertube depth (from the top of the powertube without the tip to where the backing washer would sit): .592"
I also measured that the carrier WITH the powertube O-ring in it is actually .218", so the powertube O-ring does protrude about .002".


It looks to me as if there's enough room for the carrier to be free of squeezing. It's close enough, though, that if you put enough shims in there, the carrier probably would hit the bottom of the powertube, and the powertube O-ring would be compress the extra .002" if the pressure in the dump chamber hadn't done so already.

My conclusion is that shims don't affect the inner diameter of the powertube O-ring. They are simply used to adjust at which point in the bolt's travel the leak-hole seals and unseals. Please let me know where I can find evidence to the contrary, this question is interesting enough to be worth investigating.
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#17 User is offline   WardenWolf 

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 07:14 PM

There's not enough room. There can't be. Otherwise the o-ring would come out of the carrier when the bolt moves back and forth. As for where I acquired that information, experience and common sense. I've solved those minor leaks by adding shims before.

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#18 User is offline   questionful 

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Posted 30 June 2008 - 09:23 AM

I run my level 10 with no spacers and no backing washer, and it definitely moves around (I have a carrier without the O-ring on the outside, and when I put that in my powertube with the tip on, it rattles when you shake it), yet the O-ring remains in the carrier. What I imagine happens is when the bolt returns, it might push the whole carrier back, but the pressure in the dump chamber will push the carrier forward again.
You say you've fixed small leaks by adding shims. How many shims do you normally run? According to my measurements, if you have three or four, the carrier might be squished up against the backing washer, and the O-ring would compress those .002", so maybe that's why it worked for you. Or maybe you just added oil to your powertube O-ring when you did that. Who knows. But you shouldn't be going around telling people to add shims to fix a leak. Adding shims is likely to cause a leak, since that's what shims are for. A powertube O-ring leak is fixed by going down a carrier size, and that's what you should be telling people.
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#19 User is offline   WardenWolf 

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Posted 30 June 2008 - 08:15 PM

Dude, you shouldn't do that! The backing washer is necessary because the o-ring can fall into the air chamber! That's why AGD uses a backing washer for the Level 10. The Level 7's o-ring was large enough that it couldn't fall in.

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#20 User is offline   questionful 

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Posted 30 June 2008 - 08:23 PM

I checked, the O-ring won't fit in there. Maybe if you pushed it in, but I think as long as it stays in the carrier it can't. It hasn't fallen in on me yet, I'll just hope it doesn't until I get a backing washer. Next time I order something from AGD or Tuna I'll get one.
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#21 User is offline   WardenWolf 

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Posted 30 June 2008 - 10:46 PM

I wouldn't use it until you get a backing washer. That thing is critical. Also a loose fit due to not having it can damage your carrier.

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#22 User is offline   questionful 

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Posted 04 July 2008 - 07:19 PM

It's not critical, I've used my RT without it, and I'm pretty sure the previous owner did too. And I don't think the carrier can be damaged by being pushed around in the powertube. It has too much surface area on either side to be affected by being slammed into the front or back of the powertube, and the travel is so short I don't think rubbing would be a problem.

I will eventually get one, I just think it's very unlikely that the powertube O-ring will get shoved into the dump chamber.
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#23 User is offline   Komodo 

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Posted 10 July 2008 - 10:27 AM

Hey thanks guys for all the input. I think I've got everything worked out except for the fact that I am wondering whether a remote line will be compatible with one of these tank regulators such as the...dare I say it....Maxflo or Dynaflow systems. Thanks again!

Komodo
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#24 Guest_PhantomSniper1_*

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Posted 10 July 2008 - 12:14 PM

Yeah, it will work with either of those. But why would you ruin your marker with DOO DOOParts?
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Posted 10 July 2008 - 12:31 PM

View PostKomodo, on Jul 10 2008, 08:27 AM, said:

Hey thanks guys for all the input. I think I've got everything worked out except for the fact that I am wondering whether a remote line will be compatible with one of these tank regulators such as the...dare I say it....Maxflo or Dynaflow systems. Thanks again!

Komodo

The dynaflow's and maxflow's output is a female 1/8NPT. So a remote will work, you just won't have to use the ASA that usually comes with remotes.
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#26 User is offline   Komodo 

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 05:17 AM

Hey thanks again for all the input guys. Anyway, I know you'll be disappointed with me but I went and bought a SP Maxflo and really have no idea how to get this thing on a remote. :wacko: I know it screws into the tank, which I assume needs to be empty first, and it has a nipple for a remote but I don't know if I need a macro line or if it will be compatible with my braided hose. Any imput will be appreciated. Thanks!

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#27 User is offline   questionful 

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 09:07 AM

View PostKomodo, on Jul 18 2008, 03:17 AM, said:

Hey thanks again for all the input guys. Anyway, I know you'll be disappointed with me but I went and bought a SP Maxflo and really have no idea how to get this thing on a remote. :P I know it screws into the tank, which I assume needs to be empty first, and it has a nipple for a remote but I don't know if I need a macro line or if it will be compatible with my braided hose. Any imput will be appreciated. Thanks!

Komodo


The tank does not need to be empty first, it just needs to be off.

The nipple on the tank is the FILL nipple, it is not the output.

The ouput is probably marked, it is a 1/8NPT female hole. There should be four holes, 3 of them occupied by 2 gauges and a nipple. Or it might only have once gauge, in which case there would only be three total holes.

I recommend braided hose. But if you're using a remote, you probably don't need either.
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