Special Ops Paintball: .50 Caliber - Special Ops Paintball

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.50 Caliber The new standard?

#121 User is offline   Sgt Richie 

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Posted 08 November 2009 - 03:09 PM

Oi more buying stuff makes me poor..... ;)
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#122 User is offline   LoneWolf99 

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Posted 08 November 2009 - 06:18 PM

Except there is no reason to test at 450fps, because it will never be allowed to shoot that fast (or anything above 300) on a legitimate paintball field.
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#123 User is offline   druid 

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Posted 08 November 2009 - 06:46 PM

Lonewolf makes a solid point....450 is irrelevent. Field speeds are governed by:

1. Goggle ratings [and therefore]
2. insurance carriers.

Who cares what it does at "faster than 300fps" speeds...it won't, nor should it, be allowed. Period.

Lonewolf makes a solid point....450 is irrelevent. Field speeds are governed by:

1. Goggle ratings [and therefore]
2. insurance carriers.

Who cares what it does at "faster than 300fps" speeds...it won't, nor should it, be allowed. Period.

Lonewolf makes a solid point....450 is irrelevent. Field speeds are governed by:

1. Goggle ratings [and therefore]
2. insurance carriers.

Who cares what it does at "faster than 300fps" speeds...it won't, nor should it, be allowed. Period.
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#124 User is offline   ike123 

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Posted 09 November 2009 - 10:51 PM

But at 450, it still has the same amount of force as a .68 Cal at 300. Physics people.
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#125 User is offline   druid 

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Posted 09 November 2009 - 11:03 PM

View Postike123, on Nov 10 2009, 12:51 AM, said:

But at 450, it still has the same amount of force as a .68 Cal at 300. Physics people.



Hmmm...do I want to get hit by a tractor trailer doing 50 or a VW bug doing 90?

Dude I'll tell you what....get on video, yourself being bunkered by a .50 cal ball to the side of the head at 450 and I guarentee you will change your mind.

And besides...insurance companies are NEVER going to allow 450...they don't give a poo about "physics."
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#126 User is offline   ike123 

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Posted 09 November 2009 - 11:16 PM

View Postdruid, on Nov 9 2009, 10:03 PM, said:

View Postike123, on Nov 10 2009, 12:51 AM, said:

But at 450, it still has the same amount of force as a .68 Cal at 300. Physics people.



Hmmm...do I want to get hit by a tractor trailer doing 50 or a VW bug doing 90?

Dude I'll tell you what....get on video, yourself being bunkered by a .50 cal ball to the side of the head at 450 and I guarentee you will change your mind.

And besides...insurance companies are NEVER going to allow 450...they don't give a poo about "physics."

Yes because cars and paintballs have so much in common. :rolleyes:

And by that logic, we should make all markers shoot at 100 or so FPS so it doesn't hurt :rolleyes:

You're right, insurance companies DON'T care about physics. They care about safety. And at 450, .50 cal is SAFE. Because of physics.
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#127 User is offline   druid 

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Posted 09 November 2009 - 11:59 PM

Don't be a chucklehead....It's as analagous as it needs to be. Think bigger buddy......

Ok...so let me shoot you in the head from 11 feet with a 450fps 50 cal and on camera so we can hear you cry about the paint of it....

This post has been edited by druid: 10 November 2009 - 12:00 AM

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#128 User is offline   Tim Burton 

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 12:14 AM

View Postdruid, on Nov 9 2009, 11:59 PM, said:

Don't be a chucklehead....It's as analagous as it needs to be. Think bigger buddy......

Ok...so let me shoot you in the head from 11 feet with a 450fps 50 cal and on camera so we can hear you cry about the paint of it....


If I was going to get in a wreck with a 18 wheeler at 50 or a VW at 90, I'd take the VW at 90 everytime. I've seen what an 18 wheeler does to an SUV at 50 mph when I was traveling from Altoona to Scranton.

12 tons vs .5 is going to want to to take the VW at virtually any speed (save it having a jet engine on the back).

It's a simple joules issue. The VW at 90 will transfer less joules than a 18 wheeler at 50mph.
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#129 User is offline   ike123 

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 12:19 AM

View PostTim Burton, on Nov 9 2009, 11:14 PM, said:

View Postdruid, on Nov 9 2009, 11:59 PM, said:

Don't be a chucklehead....It's as analagous as it needs to be. Think bigger buddy......

Ok...so let me shoot you in the head from 11 feet with a 450fps 50 cal and on camera so we can hear you cry about the paint of it....


If I was going to get in a wreck with a 18 wheeler at 50 or a VW at 90, I'd take the VW at 90 everytime. I've seen what an 18 wheeler does to an SUV at 50 mph when I was traveling from Altoona to Scranton.

12 tons vs .5 is going to want to to take the VW at virtually any speed (save it having a jet engine on the back).

It's a simple joules issue. The VW at 90 will transfer less joules than a 18 wheeler at 50mph.

Don't be a chucklehead. Insurance doesn't care about "physics" :rolleyes:
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#130 User is offline   LoneWolf99 

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 03:47 AM

Ike - I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. But, insurance companies have already decided "regardless of caliber, 300FPS is the limit." This is a dead issue with them, GI Milsim & the field owners. You'll never see .50 at anything above 300 (legally or ethically).

Interestingly enough, netting in one of the big issues now - they (the insuance comnpanies) want to make sure .50 won't go through current netting. I don't think it will, but it will be something the field owners will be thinking about when considering whether or not to allow .50 on their fields.
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#131 User is offline   Legato 

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 03:54 AM

Agreed. It even says on the bags of the .50 cal paint that it "Is not to be shots at speeds in excess of 300 FPS" Like it is printed on the bag itself, big warning. As a side not i have never seen so much marketing put onto a bag of paint. usually they are just clear or have a small design, the bags for this crap are littered with logos, warnings, and other junk
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#132 User is offline   Meline 

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 05:48 AM

View Postike123, on Nov 9 2009, 11:51 PM, said:

But at 450, it still has the same amount of force as a .68 Cal at 300. Physics people.


Same force only concentrated into an area 27% smaller. Think about that for a second... Same force of a bounce paintall but now its more concentrated because it has less surface area in which to transfer the energy... But its ok because .50 "will hurtless" or at least that is what Milsim says...
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#133 User is offline   Tim Burton 

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 08:18 AM

View PostMeline, on Nov 10 2009, 05:48 AM, said:

View Postike123, on Nov 9 2009, 11:51 PM, said:

But at 450, it still has the same amount of force as a .68 Cal at 300. Physics people.


Same force only concentrated into an area 27% smaller. Think about that for a second... Same force of a bounce paintall but now its more concentrated because it has less surface area in which to transfer the energy... But its ok because .50 "will hurtless" or at least that is what Milsim says...


But it's not the same force, because when fired at the same speed, the 50 cal will drop speed faster than the 68 cal. So bounces at distances that 68 would break, still have less energy transfer.
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#134 User is offline   Thalion 

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 08:30 AM

Ike,

Your physics would be sound, except for the size of the projectiles and how that force is imparted to a target matter.

It could be possible that the .50 paint at 450 is equivalent in force to .68 at 300.

The problem, however, is the size difference. The force is spread out over a larger area, instead of a smaller point.

The equivalence of force will not mean both are safe. They might be, but it doesn't ensure it.


It's not exactly the same, but here's an example:

A typical 9mm round and a typical 5.7x28mm load will hit a target with roughly the same energy (found two 9mm loads, one just above the 5.7x28 energy and one just below it)

Given a standard NIJ Type IIIA body armor, neither 9mm round will penetrate it. Thus, the armor has worked and it is "safe" (and I use that extremely loosely in order to demonstrate my point)

However, the 5.7x28 will penetrate that same armor. It fails and isn't "safe" and you have a bullet wound.

Yes, I know energy is force*velocity (although I suspect your equivalence was also of energy rather than force), but it gives an easy to find example of what I'm referring to.

Bad analogy? Yes in the sense that I'm talking about comparing lethal items (firearms) to a non-lethal item (paintball). No in the sense that the laws of physics hold for both.

Are there differences? Quite a few. However, the argument was about "if one is equal to the other on impact, then it must be safe," which isn't necessarily correct, and that physics principle is not different.


Do I know for sure that the .50 paint at 450 FPS is unsafe? No, I don't. But physics tells me because Combination of mass, size, and velocity A is safe, and Combination B has the same energy does not prove that Combination B is safe.
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#135 User is offline   druid 

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 03:21 PM

People are also not taking into account...when you up the velocity to 450, that's to meet a current joule force of a 68 AT DISTANCE.....the typical MAXIMUM distance the 68 will break.

For argument's sake, let's assume that in order to break paint:

.50 @ 450 MV @ 140 feet will equal
.68 @ 300 MV @ 140 feet in force/joules needed to accomplish that same goal.

Now bring that closer...
.50 @ 450 MV @ 70 feet still [may] equate to 350fps
.68 @ 300 MV @ 70 feet is whatever it stillis...let's say 225-250fps.

^^ These are NOT the actual numbers but they are within reason for assumptive purposes...

Even at that distance, the 50 still breaches the safety rule on masks...

.....which is why no one has responded to my "take a 450 fps shot to the head at 11 feet" comment.......
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