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#31 User is offline   Blackout007 

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Posted 01 March 2009 - 12:49 PM

I like the use of scouts personally. The x3 man scout team (if you have a larger team) is always nice for recon. My team currently consists of 9 guys however recruiting x4 more to take the place of three who suit the roles for my personal view of a scout team.

The future scout team will consist of x2 Automatics and x1 sniper who have been trainned in the use of map reading/making and extensive cover and consealment trainning.

In travel, each team member will be aprox 15 - 20 meters apart. Communication to be done through to the 9 man squad leader aswel as each other on the scout team based on intel gathered. The autogunners are trainned as scouts largly to support the sniper and pull flanking manuvers for key targets in scenario games. Both of the auto gunners may be deployed as an observer for the sniper, or two observers at different locations for the sniper setup in a flank. This can be done on the fly if they are not observed by the opfor for which they have been trainned specifically to do.

Their purpose will be flexiable from independant search and destroy, forward intelligence, ghost flank, ambush. Best way to describe my idea for them is a multi-function team able to successfully pull off manuvers the standard 9 man squad cannot or is the initial first strike to the approaching 9man to support the larger manuver.

Like I said this is my personal view of a x3 man scout team that I wish to employ in scenario games.
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#32 User is offline   rcp_90 

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Posted 01 March 2009 - 03:45 PM

View Postb_soukup, on May 6 2008, 08:51 AM, said:

View Postkingcheese, on May 1 2008, 04:53 PM, said:

do you guys use scouts on a hill nerby your bunker to help you improvise your field tactics

if so where do you like them to stay after your main assult starts


usually my cavalry scouts are the ones that lead the main assault. if there is a hill yes ill usually post the scouts on it to check out whats going on down below. :)


Ok, stop right there high speed. Cavalry Scouts technically perform their recon from a vehicle or some other means of going abnormally fast. It's the job of Cav Scouts to find enemy formations, not individual OP's or anything like that. Cav Scouts can act like regular scouts, but we're better geared towards driving through the desert to find a big group of somethings. Infantry Scouts are different, and that's more what these people are talking about. If you're going to slosh the terminology around, know at least what you're saying. I'm not jumping on you to be a jerk, but as a 19D I get annoyed by casual ignorance many display regarding Cavalrymen. (I swear, if I had a dollar for every time a stupid person asked me "OMG! Do you guys ride horses?" I'd be rich.) And Scouts leading assaults is counterproductive, you use those scouts to call in other groups to deal with the threat. Stealth=good for a scout. Leading an assault is bad for stealth. So, leading an assault is bad for a scout.

For the record, I'm not trying to come on some elitist "I'm in the Army" holier-then-thou vibe. I just get frustrated with people who try to use military terminology and think they're awesome for it.

Moving right along, recon is only as useful as a commander that can turn that info into something useful. For that to even work, you and your scouts need to have a good knowledge of the field (be it from a map or personal experience) so when your scouts call you back and say "6 by the woodpile" or whatever, you're not all messed up. I personally find the idea of having designated players running out there and setting up an OP to be irksome. I'd rather have those sharp eyes on point.

This post has been edited by rcp_90: 01 March 2009 - 03:54 PM

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#33 User is offline   Saifoda2 

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Posted 01 March 2009 - 08:21 PM

View Postrcp_90, on Mar 1 2009, 02:45 PM, said:

View Postb_soukup, on May 6 2008, 08:51 AM, said:

View Postkingcheese, on May 1 2008, 04:53 PM, said:

do you guys use scouts on a hill nerby your bunker to help you improvise your field tactics

if so where do you like them to stay after your main assult starts


usually my cavalry scouts are the ones that lead the main assault. if there is a hill yes ill usually post the scouts on it to check out whats going on down below. :panzer:


Ok, stop right there high speed. Cavalry Scouts technically perform their recon from a vehicle or some other means of going abnormally fast. It's the job of Cav Scouts to find enemy formations, not individual OP's or anything like that. Cav Scouts can act like regular scouts, but we're better geared towards driving through the desert to find a big group of somethings. Infantry Scouts are different, and that's more what these people are talking about. If you're going to slosh the terminology around, know at least what you're saying. I'm not jumping on you to be a jerk, but as a 19D I get annoyed by casual ignorance many display regarding Cavalrymen. (I swear, if I had a dollar for every time a stupid person asked me "OMG! Do you guys ride horses?" I'd be rich.) And Scouts leading assaults is counterproductive, you use those scouts to call in other groups to deal with the threat. Stealth=good for a scout. Leading an assault is bad for stealth. So, leading an assault is bad for a scout.

For the record, I'm not trying to come on some elitist "I'm in the Army" holier-then-thou vibe. I just get frustrated with people who try to use military terminology and think they're awesome for it.

Moving right along, recon is only as useful as a commander that can turn that info into something useful. For that to even work, you and your scouts need to have a good knowledge of the field (be it from a map or personal experience) so when your scouts call you back and say "6 by the woodpile" or whatever, you're not all messed up. I personally find the idea of having designated players running out there and setting up an OP to be irksome. I'd rather have those sharp eyes on point.



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#34 User is offline   rcp_90 

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Posted 02 March 2009 - 03:36 AM

3 years this summer.
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#35 User is offline   Saifoda2 

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Posted 02 March 2009 - 07:24 AM

hehe, me too. It's been interesting to say the least -- glad I did it.
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#36 User is offline   rcp_90 

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Posted 02 March 2009 - 10:28 AM

I should've stayed in college :rolleyes: Soldiering is all well and good, but the Army is the most f***ed up organization I've ever had the displeasure of laying eyes upon.

Aren't you in the Guard anyway? I seem to remember you saying that.
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#37 User is offline   Saifoda2 

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Posted 02 March 2009 - 12:49 PM

Yeah, we get the rap of being "weekend warriors," but it's not like back in the day anymore. Since we get deployed just as frequently as the active component we have to maintain the same standards, but we only get 2 days a month to do them in, so we have to take time out of our own personal days (which should be filled with civilian jobs and/or school -- and paintball) to complete training and all that crap, which we don't get paid for -- just time at drills and AT.

And if you want to take college courses while you're still in, go here: http://www.atsc.army...CCP/AIPDNEW.ASP

promotion points AND college credit = ftw.
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#38 User is offline   rcp_90 

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Posted 02 March 2009 - 03:30 PM

Having been a reservist myself, I know it's not all low speed, but I promise it's nothing like the active duty world. I just got back two days before X-mas, and I'm 99% sure I'm going again in November. College courses while on active is probably the least funny joke I've ever heard. Sure, the courses are there but if you work all day, get out at 5, still have to get your stuff either fixed from the last deployment and/or ready for the next deployment... yeah. What little time I have left I either spend trying to relax or trying to sleep.
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#39 User is offline   Saifoda2 

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Posted 02 March 2009 - 09:27 PM

well you should just reclass as a more pogy job and have all the time in the world (even on deployment) to take the courses. Also, the courses from the Army correspondence courses are Military traning courses, not like traditional school.
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#40 User is offline   rcp_90 

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Posted 03 March 2009 - 09:51 AM

Ok, I'll pm you. This thread isn't really about us two talking shop
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#41 User is offline   Saifoda2 

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Posted 03 March 2009 - 11:40 AM

Okay, back to the use of scout's in paintball.


I largely depends on the field, what your objective is, how long the game is, and the size of the forces. Anybody and everybody can be considered a scout -- we've all got eyes and ears and most of us have the use of both. Scouting could be the whole "behind enemy lines" stuff, or it could be walking the field the day before the game. This is turning into more of a thread for the tactics section, but since I am not bestowed with the power to move we'll just let it sit here.


Keep in mind you guys, that certain things DON'T translate well from Military to civilian/paintball. Scouting elements in the Military are assigned at the lowest level as a platoon-sized battalion asset. A battalion is about 300 dudes, or about 3 companies. A platoon is about 30 dudes. Battalions, again depending on the mission and the organization of the Brigade/Regiment they are a part of, generally are responsible for a sizable chunk of land, much larger than any paintball field any of us will ever play it (well, if I don't have my way that is). As part of a unit like an SBCT or even IBCT, you might have a company (troop) sized element of scouts. Again, with the numbers here, a Brigade is about 3k-5k of dudes, and a company is about 100 or so. It all depends on the mission and the organization preference of the Army for that particular unit, but basically you've got about a 10:1 or 30:1 (depending on your total and again, what you're trying to accomplish) ratio of dudes/scouts. Dude here being synonymous with grunt.


You wanna know a really good way to use your scouts though? They're perfect for scoping out an AO or an objective before a mission. Wanna know more cool stuff about scouts? Check out these awesomely boring field manuals:

Infantry Reconnaissance Platoon: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/lib...7-92/index.html

Long Range Surveillance Unit Operations: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/lib...7-93/index.html

Scout Platoon: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/lib...7-98/index.html


When you're done reading those in about 5 years you'll have a better (or completely confused) idea of how to use scouts.






Actually, I got a better idea. 90 can just answer any more questions you guys have on this lol.
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#42 User is offline   rcp_90 

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Posted 03 March 2009 - 12:51 PM

Quote

Keep in mind you guys, that certain things DON'T translate well from Military to civilian/paintball.


Most things actually... lol

Quote

Scouting elements in the Military are assigned at the lowest level as a platoon-sized battalion asset. A battalion is about 300 dudes, or about 3 companies. A platoon is about 30 dudes. Battalions, again depending on the mission and the organization of the Brigade/Regiment they are a part of, generally are responsible for a sizable chunk of land, much larger than any paintball field any of us will ever play it (well, if I don't have my way that is). As part of a unit like an SBCT or even IBCT, you might have a company (troop) sized element of scouts. Again, with the numbers here, a Brigade is about 3k-5k of dudes, and a company is about 100 or so. It all depends on the mission and the organization preference of the Army for that particular unit, but basically you've got about a 10:1 or 30:1 (depending on your total and again, what you're trying to accomplish) ratio of dudes/scouts. Dude here being synonymous with grunt.


Not really. A platoon can vary wildly in size depending on the situation and the unit, my scout platoon has about 25 warm bodies. Sort of splitting hairs there, but a battalion can definitely have more then 3 companies... My Battalion goes all the way up to Echo, and we've got a company from the support battalion permanently attached. In practice, it's more like a 7 company battalion, and they can get bigger/smaller. I've seen a Squadron (cavalry equivalent of a battalion) with 3 troops (cav equivalent of a company) but that isn't really the norm as I've seen it. All BCT's (however they're laid out) have a specific Cav Squadron for recon, and the battalions themselves usually have a recon platoon of some sort, be it cav scouts or infantry scouts.

But no matter how you slice it, if you put together an infantry battalion's total assests together in a straight line, the scouts would take up a tiny part of the line. For our one platoon, there are/were 6 other companies in the battalion. If we figure each has 4 platoons, and pretend we're all the same size, and discount the rest of the HHC and the support company, you're looking at a 20:1 ratio of 21b's, Infantry, and Tankers vs Scouts. It's lonely at the top :rolleyes:

Quote

Actually, I got a better idea. 90 can just answer any more questions you guys have on this lol.


FML
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#43 User is offline   Saifoda2 

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Posted 03 March 2009 - 10:34 PM

View Postrcp_90, on Mar 3 2009, 11:51 AM, said:

Quote

Keep in mind you guys, that certain things DON'T translate well from Military to civilian/paintball.


Most things actually... lol

Quote

Scouting elements in the Military are assigned at the lowest level as a platoon-sized battalion asset. A battalion is about 300 dudes, or about 3 companies. A platoon is about 30 dudes. Battalions, again depending on the mission and the organization of the Brigade/Regiment they are a part of, generally are responsible for a sizable chunk of land, much larger than any paintball field any of us will ever play it (well, if I don't have my way that is). As part of a unit like an SBCT or even IBCT, you might have a company (troop) sized element of scouts. Again, with the numbers here, a Brigade is about 3k-5k of dudes, and a company is about 100 or so. It all depends on the mission and the organization preference of the Army for that particular unit, but basically you've got about a 10:1 or 30:1 (depending on your total and again, what you're trying to accomplish) ratio of dudes/scouts. Dude here being synonymous with grunt.


Not really. A platoon can vary wildly in size depending on the situation and the unit, my scout platoon has about 25 warm bodies. Sort of splitting hairs there, but a battalion can definitely have more then 3 companies... My Battalion goes all the way up to Echo, and we've got a company from the support battalion permanently attached. In practice, it's more like a 7 company battalion, and they can get bigger/smaller. I've seen a Squadron (cavalry equivalent of a battalion) with 3 troops (cav equivalent of a company) but that isn't really the norm as I've seen it. All BCT's (however they're laid out) have a specific Cav Squadron for recon, and the battalions themselves usually have a recon platoon of some sort, be it cav scouts or infantry scouts.

But no matter how you slice it, if you put together an infantry battalion's total assests together in a straight line, the scouts would take up a tiny part of the line. For our one platoon, there are/were 6 other companies in the battalion. If we figure each has 4 platoons, and pretend we're all the same size, and discount the rest of the HHC and the support company, you're looking at a 20:1 ratio of 21b's, Infantry, and Tankers vs Scouts. It's lonely at the top :rolleyes:

Quote

Actually, I got a better idea. 90 can just answer any more questions you guys have on this lol.


FML





Haha, FYL indeed. Yeah, I didn't really want to get into different sizes and compositions too much -- I've been in a 19 man platoon, an 84 man platoon and in between. I've been in companies smaller than that platoon. Battalion's same way -- battalion that had 2 companies and a scout platoon (the scout platoon was made up of 6 sniper teams for 13 dudes total) and the battalion I'm in now has 5 line companies, a medical detachment company, lw mechanic co, supply platoon and commo platoon. And that's just what I'm aware of (only been in this unit about 6 months).
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#44 User is offline   kingcheese 

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Posted 05 March 2009 - 08:43 AM

View PostSaifoda2, on Feb 26 2009, 05:04 PM, said:

View Postkingcheese, on Feb 26 2009, 01:27 PM, said:

Regardless of what they might be called, and im sick and tired of critics being funny and making wize crack remarks, would you and/or do use a person to gain inteligence of where the enemy is

sucj as if you know the feild layout and know where people normally go, would you use a "scout" to find where exactaly they are going




Alright grump pants calm down :P :panzer: . To answer the question seriously, no, I do not use scouts -- they are a waste of resources. If, however, I have a sniper available his secondary role may be intelligence gathering around his area if his mission allows. Having teams patrol certain areas and passing up the info can also help, but again you've got to define exactly what a Scout is. What I imagine a full "scout" role being is an individual meant for gathering field information and to NOT engage opfor. Why would I take guns out of the fight just to gather "intelligence?"


Also, dude, if you don't want "critics" take make "wize crack remarks," I'd suggest using a spell check, or just learn how to spell :happy:

just becuase i cant speel such ^^, ok sorry i was kinda mad at the time
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#45 User is offline   kingcheese 

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Posted 27 February 2010 - 06:24 AM

aw, this just kinda died,
well we where recently playing a game with around thirty people, we where on four different teams, each team against the others, our captain told me to go out ahead and see if i could spot the enemy, i got shot about twenty feet away from the group and they coulsn't figure out what was going on...

if you are going to scout for anyone, make sure that they are paying attention, becuase chances are that you are going to get shot at and you don;t want to be stuck waiting five minutes for them to make a decision
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