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The Shooter's Thread! Rate Topic: ***** 3 Votes

#3181 User is offline   evillepaintball 

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 03:38 PM

My room mate's mom wants a gun to protect her home from a recent string of meth head burglaries. She is pretty old, 70's at least. He is primarily looking at small handguns, but I was thinking a small shotty would be better. Any ideas? price no more than 300. Used is kosher.
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#3182 User is offline   PistolWhipped 

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 09:11 PM

I think a 20 gauge Mossberg would be the ticket if you want a shotty. Pretty mild recoil, and still hits with the force of 2 full house .44 Magnums would at the muzzle.

As for handguns, something like a Taurus revolver in .38 Special might be just the ticket. Full sized, preferably with decent heft to soak up some of the recoil. Or an Armscor M200 in .38 Special. A full sized .38 will give you very usable power without wrist shattering recoil.

If they can manage a bit more, I highly recommend a Ruger SP101 in .327 Federal Magnum. It is all steel can can be loaded with .32 S&W, .32 Special, and .32 H&R Magnum if the recoil of the Federal Magnum is an issue. I find .327 is much more pleasant to shoot than .357 Magnum, with a noticeably milder recoil impulse for the amount of force delivered. And it can run 4 calibers, always a plus. A .32 is the minimum caliber I would recommend in a revolver.

This post has been edited by PistolWhipped: 30 September 2010 - 09:12 PM

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#3183 User is offline   evillepaintball 

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 09:32 PM

I'm trying to talk him into this http://www.budsgunsh...oducts_id/46401
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#3184 User is offline   PistolWhipped 

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 07:27 AM

.410? Eh, I'd still say 20 gauge, 28 gauge at the least (figure, a .410 bore would be a 67 gauge. It's about as lethal as a good .22). Look into youth model pump actions. Short, handy, light, and can be had in the milder gauges like 20 and 28.

Of course, 28 gauge shells are hard to find, and expensive, so we're back to 20 if she wants to keep more than a box of shells on hand.

Also, look at side-by-side coach guns. Very simple, very durable, very reliable.
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#3185 User is offline   Thalion 

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 12:05 PM

.410 is fine for birds and snakes.

I want a 20 gauge for self-defense or larger.

I'd recommend either a pump like the Mossberg, or the break action double barrel coach guns like PW said if she can't work the pump well. Both will work well for that purpose, and either is plenty of a single home invader.

Saiga 20 would be near perfect for her, except for the price.
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Posted 01 October 2010 - 08:10 PM

Benelli M4 Super 90. It's the only way. :dry:
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#3187 User is offline   Cuy'val Dar  

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 08:52 PM

Yes, it is. :)
But like they said, 20 gauge would be an excellent choice.
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Posted 01 October 2010 - 09:45 PM

If you want them to be able to handle it with any level of aptitude, you'll want to get her a full stock.

A pistol grip shotgun is NOT the recoil sensitive shooters friend. Hell, I've been shooting 12 gauges since I was in the single digit age range and I don't particularly care for a pistol gripped shotty for anything except "cool factor". A stock will allow one's torso to absorb the recoil, instead of one's wrists. Means she can use a somewhat more potent cartridge with less discomfort.

If space is an issue, get a folding stock instead of a pistol grip. If handiness is an issue, go with a youth model. They are surprisingly agile and make for great defensive options indoors.
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#3189 User is offline   Erickson 

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Posted 04 October 2010 - 02:44 PM

Some good choices for home defense. If you want a .410 you might as well go with the Tarus Judge revolver that shoots either the .410 or a .45 long colt. But again with recoil and defense you would want atleast a 20ga. I would suggest either a Remmington or a Mossberg. Handguns are more concealable then a shotgun so if you want to be able to hide the gun easier then look into double action revolver or semi pistol in atleast .38. Stopping power comes to my mind when talking about defense so shotgun would be best but for concealablity go with a full size pistol to help with recoil. There really isn't much recoil to the .38 special so she should be able to handle it. Most importantly though is to have her go with and see if she likes the feel of the gun. You then take to the range to get her used to firing the gun. If you yourself have multi guns in multi cal then take her with you to the range to see what she can handle. If you do go with a any handgun though for selfdefense you get her HP rounds for better stopping power.
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#3190 User is offline   Erndogg 

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Posted 04 October 2010 - 10:45 PM

I think I want a 20g just for shooting small birds and shooting clays frequently. I went out twice a couple weeks back and put a lot of rounds through the 12 shooting clays, and after awhile the shoulder started to bother me.

I think that its out of the question though until this summer.
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#3191 User is offline   Thalion 

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 04:37 AM

View PostErickson, on 04 October 2010 - 04:44 PM, said:

Some good choices for home defense. If you want a .410 you might as well go with the Tarus Judge revolver that shoots either the .410 or a .45 long colt. But again with recoil and defense you would want atleast a 20ga. I would suggest either a Remmington or a Mossberg. Handguns are more concealable then a shotgun so if you want to be able to hide the gun easier then look into double action revolver or semi pistol in atleast .38. Stopping power comes to my mind when talking about defense so shotgun would be best but for concealablity go with a full size pistol to help with recoil. There really isn't much recoil to the .38 special so she should be able to handle it. Most importantly though is to have her go with and see if she likes the feel of the gun. You then take to the range to get her used to firing the gun. If you yourself have multi guns in multi cal then take her with you to the range to see what she can handle. If you do go with a any handgun though for selfdefense you get her HP rounds for better stopping power.


My thoughts:

1. If you're going to use a Judge for self defense, shoot the guy with a .45 colt. If you're going to shoot a guy with a .45 colt, there's better possible choices out there with a true .45 colt cylinder (less "jump" to the barrel improving accuracy).

2. Concealment is not an issue in one's own home. Maneuverability for tight corners and hallways can be. Concealment only comes into play for taking it with you outside the house (such as CCW permits). A home owner with small corridors may want to consider a handgun anyway due to the constraints of the home. A shotgun is great for staying put and unleashing hell when cornered, it's not the best for clearing tight corners.

3. I'd have her check and see. She may prefer the shorter trigger pull of a Glock or XD than the full double action of a revolver. You never train someone to fire single action for self-defense on a DA gun (exception going to DA/SA handguns, but I was getting at the idea of manually cocking the hammer), and a full DA pull is rather long.

4. Hollow Points do not have more "stopping power." They're just more efficient with their power. Their advantage is expansion in the body, creating a slightly larger wound channel and (more importantly) stopping the bullet from overpenetrating, keeping all energy transferred in the target instead of losing a lot of it to an overpenetration shot.
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#3192 User is offline   Erickson 

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 10:51 AM

View PostThalion, on 05 October 2010 - 05:37 AM, said:

View PostErickson, on 04 October 2010 - 04:44 PM, said:

Some good choices for home defense. If you want a .410 you might as well go with the Tarus Judge revolver that shoots either the .410 or a .45 long colt. But again with recoil and defense you would want atleast a 20ga. I would suggest either a Remmington or a Mossberg. Handguns are more concealable then a shotgun so if you want to be able to hide the gun easier then look into double action revolver or semi pistol in atleast .38. Stopping power comes to my mind when talking about defense so shotgun would be best but for concealablity go with a full size pistol to help with recoil. There really isn't much recoil to the .38 special so she should be able to handle it. Most importantly though is to have her go with and see if she likes the feel of the gun. You then take to the range to get her used to firing the gun. If you yourself have multi guns in multi cal then take her with you to the range to see what she can handle. If you do go with a any handgun though for selfdefense you get her HP rounds for better stopping power.


My thoughts:

1. If you're going to use a Judge for self defense, shoot the guy with a .45 colt. If you're going to shoot a guy with a .45 colt, there's better possible choices out there with a true .45 colt cylinder (less "jump" to the barrel improving accuracy).

2. Concealment is not an issue in one's own home. Maneuverability for tight corners and hallways can be. Concealment only comes into play for taking it with you outside the house (such as CCW permits). A home owner with small corridors may want to consider a handgun anyway due to the constraints of the home. A shotgun is great for staying put and unleashing hell when cornered, it's not the best for clearing tight corners.

3. I'd have her check and see. She may prefer the shorter trigger pull of a Glock or XD than the full double action of a revolver. You never train someone to fire single action for self-defense on a DA gun (exception going to DA/SA handguns, but I was getting at the idea of manually cocking the hammer), and a full DA pull is rather long.

4. Hollow Points do not have more "stopping power." They're just more efficient with their power. Their advantage is expansion in the body, creating a slightly larger wound channel and (more importantly) stopping the bullet from overpenetrating, keeping all energy transferred in the target instead of losing a lot of it to an overpenetration shot.



1)The Judge commant was suppose to be sarcastic. I know there are alot better choices out there.
2)The concealment thing is not just for going out. If you have small children running around the house you want to be able to hide the gun from them. Not to mention if someone breaks into your house while you are away you don't want them to find your gun and take it.
3)As I also said you have to take her to the shooting range with the gun to see if she likes it. Have her try a DA revolver and a semi-auto pistol.
4)Since HP are more efficent with their power it in a way adds to the stopping power. Since the bullet expands after entering it creates a bigger and stronger shockwave giving it a bit more stopping power.

Me personally would perfer a shotgun over a pistol for home defense. With a shotgun you don't have worry too much about aiming because for home defense you get buck shot.
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#3193 User is offline   PistolWhipped 

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 06:27 PM

View PostErickson, on 05 October 2010 - 01:51 PM, said:

View PostThalion, on 05 October 2010 - 05:37 AM, said:

View PostErickson, on 04 October 2010 - 04:44 PM, said:

Some good choices for home defense. If you want a .410 you might as well go with the Tarus Judge revolver that shoots either the .410 or a .45 long colt. But again with recoil and defense you would want atleast a 20ga. I would suggest either a Remmington or a Mossberg. Handguns are more concealable then a shotgun so if you want to be able to hide the gun easier then look into double action revolver or semi pistol in atleast .38. Stopping power comes to my mind when talking about defense so shotgun would be best but for concealablity go with a full size pistol to help with recoil. There really isn't much recoil to the .38 special so she should be able to handle it. Most importantly though is to have her go with and see if she likes the feel of the gun. You then take to the range to get her used to firing the gun. If you yourself have multi guns in multi cal then take her with you to the range to see what she can handle. If you do go with a any handgun though for selfdefense you get her HP rounds for better stopping power.


My thoughts:

1. If you're going to use a Judge for self defense, shoot the guy with a .45 colt. If you're going to shoot a guy with a .45 colt, there's better possible choices out there with a true .45 colt cylinder (less "jump" to the barrel improving accuracy).

2. Concealment is not an issue in one's own home. Maneuverability for tight corners and hallways can be. Concealment only comes into play for taking it with you outside the house (such as CCW permits). A home owner with small corridors may want to consider a handgun anyway due to the constraints of the home. A shotgun is great for staying put and unleashing hell when cornered, it's not the best for clearing tight corners.

3. I'd have her check and see. She may prefer the shorter trigger pull of a Glock or XD than the full double action of a revolver. You never train someone to fire single action for self-defense on a DA gun (exception going to DA/SA handguns, but I was getting at the idea of manually cocking the hammer), and a full DA pull is rather long.

4. Hollow Points do not have more "stopping power." They're just more efficient with their power. Their advantage is expansion in the body, creating a slightly larger wound channel and (more importantly) stopping the bullet from overpenetrating, keeping all energy transferred in the target instead of losing a lot of it to an overpenetration shot.



1)The Judge commant was suppose to be sarcastic. I know there are alot better choices out there.
2)The concealment thing is not just for going out. If you have small children running around the house you want to be able to hide the gun from them. Not to mention if someone breaks into your house while you are away you don't want them to find your gun and take it.
3)As I also said you have to take her to the shooting range with the gun to see if she likes it. Have her try a DA revolver and a semi-auto pistol.
4)Since HP are more efficent with their power it in a way adds to the stopping power. Since the bullet expands after entering it creates a bigger and stronger shockwave giving it a bit more stopping power.

Me personally would perfer a shotgun over a pistol for home defense. With a shotgun you don't have worry too much about aiming because for home defense you get buck shot.


1. Musta missed that. Hard to tell sarcasm online. Next time add a :dodgy: or :dry:

2 Or, teach your kids firearms safety. I was shooting handguns before I was 10, and shotguns before that. I never wandered over to the wherever they were and helped myself. Proper teaching negates that problem. Of course, that requires responsibility, which it seems a lot of parents in America today can't handle.

3. And if they offer the chance to run shotguns, try and find one she's comfortable with.

4. Shockwave? You're thinking hydrostatic shock which is downright negligible in handgun rounds. They are pretty much a hole punch with sights. Meaning you gotta hit something important, regardless of caliber or bullet constuction. Biggest advantage of hollowpoints is reduced penetration. To stop an attacker, you either have to shut someone down hydraulically (blood loss), structurally (breaking major bone structures), electrically (Central Nervous System), or psychologically (the "HOLY crap HE SHOT ME!" response). And this requires shot placement with a handgun. Granted a .300 Weatherby anywhere would probably cut it (blow up the head, gelatinize the inside of a torso, or blow off a limb, severing major blood vessels in the process), but even the traditional "heavy hitters" like a .45 ACP or a .357 magnum aren't wonder bullets in any loading.

At 7 yards, a shotgun has a pattern the size of a fist. You probably don't even have a 7 yard clear line of sight in your house. You do have to aim a shotgun at home defense ranges, as the shot isn't even out of the shot cup yet. Unless you have a spreader or rifled choke, or a rifled barrel, then you'll be slinging unaimed lead through every wall in that direction. Not a safe bet either.

This post has been edited by PistolWhipped: 05 October 2010 - 10:05 PM

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#3194 User is offline   Thalion 

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Posted 06 October 2010 - 07:11 AM

Looks like PW got the bulk of it covered.

Here's the only other thought I have to toss in.

Most home intruders while you are away usually spends only a matter of minutes at your location (unless you live in the middle of nowhere and witnesses to the situation are less likely).

This makes for a fast in and out, get something not locked up and go approach.

If you use a lockbox/gun cabinet/safe while you are away for storing the gun, they probably won't bother to waste the valuable time to get at it. They'll focus on trying to find other items they can sell that aren't locked up (electronics, prescription medical drugs if applicable, etc)

Then to avoid the thieves who can and do take their time and bring needed materials, don't do anything to stand out as "wealthy" or "I have a safe with valuables." Practice good common sense out and about, and use good opsec and comsec. Problem solved.


As for the shotgun inside the house? You really do need to aim it like PW said. It's got merit, but in many smaller houses the halls, doorways, etc. are too small to effectively clear the house with a shotgun. My house, for example, has a few good areas for a shotgun but the east half is a death trap if you're trying to enter/exit a room to clear that house. It's just too long to work the corners well. If there was no legal issues like NFA, my ideal home defense gun for my house would be a semi-auto pistol caliber carbine in SBR flavor. Something like an Uzi or TDI Kriss with the original short barrel design. The pistol round is for noise indoors, and the smaller platform would be more useful in the narrow hallway.

That said, based on what I own my primary HD gun is a Springfield XD with the shotgun getting a secondary "I know where the guy is, he's not in the tight corner area, and I need to lay down heavy fire" type role. A shotgun is a valuable tool to be sure, but there are plenty of limitations and it's only really good in its niche.
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#3195 User is offline   PistolWhipped 

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Posted 06 October 2010 - 11:11 AM

My room happens to be in the part of the house with the tighter corners. And while a shotgun isn't ideal, the rest of the house is more open. And I am confident that I can manage the shotgun as a melee weapon in the one or two places that it may not be fully maneuverable. Or tuck it in under the arm, closer to the body. Same with the close corners with my rifle.

And an aside, I am seriously thinking of adding a nice 18-20" bbl boomstick to the collection. I have the big ol' Winchester Model 50, but it is kinda long for indoors, and it only holds 2 in the tube. Great for birds and skeet, not so much for HD. Might go Mossberg, might go for broke and get a Benelli Nova. I got the bird gun, and those ghost ring sights should be great with rifled slugs as a deer gun in the brush, or as a good HD gun with some 00 or #4 buck.
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