Special Ops Paintball: Future Video Ideas - Special Ops Paintball

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Future Video Ideas for tyger.. Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   Thumper113 

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 10:58 PM

What do we here in the Spec ops forums want to see Tyger do?

i honestly cant think of anything right now but i thought i would start the first non-admin thread =P
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#2 User is offline   MurderDeathKill 

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Posted 04 February 2010 - 08:30 PM

I vote piggy-back the range video with a flatline revisit. I've always heard that with the backspin, the shot slows down and thus it probably wouldn't break as often.... why not test the theory?
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Posted 04 February 2010 - 08:37 PM

View PostMurderDeathKill, on Feb 4 2010, 09:30 PM, said:

I vote piggy-back the range video with a flatline revisit. I've always heard that with the backspin, the shot slows down and thus it probably wouldn't break as often.... why not test the theory?

It makes sense though.

Im not going to pretend im a physics expert but if you think about it the concept it makes sense, the velocity isnt increased at all so its just like any other long ball shot you just dont need to put the gun at a higher angle. So while the backspin doesn't probably doesnt slow down the initial shot but at long ranges while its still reaching out its not going to hold the speed because there is the same amount of resistance on the paintball.

Thats pure speculation but it makes sense, in my mind at least haha*
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#4 User is offline   MurderDeathKill 

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Posted 04 February 2010 - 09:13 PM

View PostTeddy K, on Feb 4 2010, 09:37 PM, said:

View PostMurderDeathKill, on Feb 4 2010, 09:30 PM, said:

I vote piggy-back the range video with a flatline revisit. I've always heard that with the backspin, the shot slows down and thus it probably wouldn't break as often.... why not test the theory?

It makes sense though.

Im not going to pretend im a physics expert but if you think about it the concept it makes sense, the velocity isnt increased at all so its just like any other long ball shot you just dont need to put the gun at a higher angle. So while the backspin doesn't probably doesnt slow down the initial shot but at long ranges while its still reaching out its not going to hold the speed because there is the same amount of resistance on the paintball.

Thats pure speculation but it makes sense, in my mind at least haha*

It makes sense, sure. But factor in that when the ball hits the target, the shell is traveling at the same velocity as the other ball -- remember conservation of energy, right? Since the ball is the same mass and the same work is being done over the same distance, the shell should be carrying pretty close to the same energy by way of spinning around really really fast.

Think of it like this.... if you drop a car tire on a rock, it bounces off. If you spin that car tire really fast, like, 500 rotations per second, and drop it on the same rock, it could shred itself. Maybe a paintball does the same thing? Maybe? I dunno. But I think it'd be cool to try!
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Posted 04 February 2010 - 09:18 PM

I like that idea a lot! I've always believed that as long as it has the velocity to "get out there" it could still break just as likely as any other arced shot...but I've never had any true testing to base that belief on.

It would be interesting to see.
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#6 User is offline   Silent-7 

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Posted 04 February 2010 - 10:52 PM

Here's an interesting take on it that I just came up with...

For a regular arc shot (assume for simplicity that the ball isn't spinning at all) the velocity that is lost during the first half of the arc due to gravity will be regained during the second half of the arc - again due to gravity. The ball will still be going slower than when it left the marker, but only thanks to the air drag as it travels.

For a flatline shot let's assume (again for simplicity) that there is no arc at all. This is achieved thanks to the ball's spin. Thus, as for the first ball, the only velocity loss is due to air drag.

But here's the kicker - if we assume equidistant targets, the flatline ball is taking a shorter path to the target, and should thus lose less velocity to air drag in the process. By this logic, the flatline ball is actually hitting the target at a higher velocity!


And here's WHY (by my spur-of-the-moment reasoning):
The regular arc shot relies on the ball's linear momentum to overcome gravity and air drag. The flatline shot requires the ball's linear momentum to overcome air drag only; it's the ball's rotational momentum that overcomes gravity.

In each case all of the paintball's kinetic energy is supplied by the marker's CO2/N2. But if both markers are chrono'd to the same muzzle velocity, the flatline ball is carrying more energy than the regular ball - in the form of rotational kinetic energy - which the chrono doesn't read!


I'm actually a bit taken aback by this line of thought. But it seems sound to me. :dry:
A test must be undertaken!!!

This post has been edited by Silent-7: 04 February 2010 - 10:58 PM

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#7 User is offline   Tyger 

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Posted 05 February 2010 - 12:16 AM

Ok, the only flaw in this is I'd need a flatline barrel. I don't think those will fit easily on my A-5. I'll see if someone locally has one I can borrow, but I wouldn't really be able to test it for a while. It's winter up here, and it's snow on the ground weather. I'm not going in the woods to freeze to test this out, and I can't go back to BFG.

But, I'll keep that in mind, and see if I can hit that up come spring.

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#8 User is offline   Thumper113 

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Posted 05 February 2010 - 12:41 AM

im out in elgin, my friend has a flatline for an a5 and i got an apex for a 98

edit: idk how Familiar you are with the rest of the Chicago Burbs but there is an Indoor park in St Charles on Randall road north or IL 64, they ARE a FPO place.. idk if they are still open, i cant seem to find their website anymore.. but here is the phone # that i found online SIX THREE OH-587-59 SEVEN ZERO

i gotta go out that way anyways in a month or so, il swing by it and see what their deal is if you decide not to call

edit 2: field is no longer listed on pbreview.. i guess they folded.. i swear i saw a sign for them on the building when i was going to the court house last week.. il check it out next time im out there.

This post has been edited by SO45615: 05 February 2010 - 02:51 AM

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#9 User is offline   fastlearner 

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Posted 05 February 2010 - 09:35 AM

Good try, you just need to do a little research

View PostSilent-7, on Feb 4 2010, 11:52 PM, said:

Here's an interesting take on it that I just came up with...

For a regular arc shot (assume for simplicity that the ball isn't spinning at all) the velocity that is lost during the first half of the arc due to gravity will be regained during the second half of the arc - again due to gravity. The ball will still be going slower than when it left the marker, but only thanks to the air drag as it travels.

Actually tests have been done in ballistics. These tests and experiments show that aerodynamic drag exerts more force on a projectile than gravity. In the absence of air drag the calculated distance of one projectile with the presence of gravity was 47 miles. With air drag the range is only 2 miles.

For a flatline shot let's assume (again for simplicity) that there is no arc at all. This is achieved thanks to the ball's spin. Thus, as for the first ball, the only velocity loss is due to air drag.

But here's the kicker - if we assume equidistant targets, the flatline ball is taking a shorter path to the target, and should thus lose less velocity to air drag in the process. By this logic, the flatline ball is actually hitting the target at a higher velocity!


And here's WHY (by my spur-of-the-moment reasoning):
The regular arc shot relies on the ball's linear momentum to overcome gravity and air drag. The flatline shot requires the ball's linear momentum to overcome air drag only; it's the ball's rotational momentum that overcomes gravity.

Actually, the flatline uses the spin to harness the drag in a contructive manner. This is called the "Magnus effect". Here is a wikipedia link to show you how this works....

http://en.wikipedia....i/Magnus_effect

The drag is still active on slowing the ball down but the lift generated helps it fly "flat".

IMO There is no true range advantage to the flatline. Once aerodynamic drag has absorbed the forward energy the ball simply drops. Those who are not aware of basic ballistic concepts and arcs are alowed to "Point and Shoot".

The Flatline/apex does allow you to shoot "under" the canopy be it the roof of a building or low branches of trees. Non-flatline barrels allow you to "drop" paint on people behind bunkers at range. This is on of Tyger's classic "thread the needle" tricks as seen on earlier episodes of WDR.

In each case all of the paintball's kinetic energy is supplied by the marker's CO2/N2. But if both markers are chrono'd to the same muzzle velocity, the flatline ball is carrying more energy than the regular ball - in the form of rotational kinetic energy - which the chrono doesn't read!


I'm actually a bit taken aback by this line of thought. But it seems sound to me. :P
A test must be undertaken!!!


Good try at reasoning this information out. You just needed to do a little more research.

This post has been edited by fastlearner: 05 February 2010 - 09:38 AM

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#10 User is offline   Puzuma 

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Posted 05 February 2010 - 10:09 AM

Have you done anything on Rifled barrels vs spiral ported vs straight ported? Which is more accurate, gets more distance?
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#11 User is offline   slinkyaroo 

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Posted 05 February 2010 - 10:55 AM

Tyger. What state do you reside at? Wiscousin? Maybe the local guys here can step up to assist you. They might have gear for you to review.


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#12 User is offline   5N1P3R 

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Posted 05 February 2010 - 03:24 PM

I have your A-5A2 as well and a Flatline does not fit on there unless you remove the foregrip.
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#13 User is offline   Thumper113 

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Posted 05 February 2010 - 11:31 PM

View Post5N1P3R, on Feb 5 2010, 04:24 PM, said:

I have your A-5A2 as well and a Flatline does not fit on there unless you remove the foregrip.

could just use a regular a5 with a flat line..


i have a regular a5.. and my friend has a flat line.. he wants to sell his stuff so if im going to be jumping in on it i need to know..

although that barrel is has been really abused.. when i looked inside the barrel the other day there was scratches inside the barrel.

This post has been edited by SO45615: 05 February 2010 - 11:31 PM

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#14 User is offline   TyTy 

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Posted 05 February 2010 - 11:35 PM

View PostSO45615, on Feb 6 2010, 01:31 AM, said:

View Post5N1P3R, on Feb 5 2010, 04:24 PM, said:

I have your A-5A2 as well and a Flatline does not fit on there unless you remove the foregrip.

could just use a regular a5 with a flat line..


i have a regular a5.. and my friend has a flat line.. he wants to sell his stuff so if im going to be jumping in on it i need to know..

although that barrel is has been really abused.. when i looked inside the barrel the other day there was scratches inside the barrel.

Just shoot it yourself and make the decision. If it performs satisfactory then jump. If not, buy an Apex. I've owned both and used both extensively. I use the Apex tip on a Stiffi on my 08 EGO for scenario games and it rocks my socks off. Best thing since sliced bread.
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#15 User is offline   Silent-7 

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Posted 07 February 2010 - 09:50 PM

View Postfastlearner, on Feb 5 2010, 10:35 AM, said:

Good try, you just need to do a little research

View PostSilent-7, on Feb 4 2010, 11:52 PM, said:

Here's an interesting take on it that I just came up with...

For a regular arc shot (assume for simplicity that the ball isn't spinning at all) the velocity that is lost during the first half of the arc due to gravity will be regained during the second half of the arc - again due to gravity. The ball will still be going slower than when it left the marker, but only thanks to the air drag as it travels.

Actually tests have been done in ballistics. These tests and experiments show that aerodynamic drag exerts more force on a projectile than gravity. In the absence of air drag the calculated distance of one projectile with the presence of gravity was 47 miles. With air drag the range is only 2 miles.

For a flatline shot let's assume (again for simplicity) that there is no arc at all. This is achieved thanks to the ball's spin. Thus, as for the first ball, the only velocity loss is due to air drag.

But here's the kicker - if we assume equidistant targets, the flatline ball is taking a shorter path to the target, and should thus lose less velocity to air drag in the process. By this logic, the flatline ball is actually hitting the target at a higher velocity!


And here's WHY (by my spur-of-the-moment reasoning):
The regular arc shot relies on the ball's linear momentum to overcome gravity and air drag. The flatline shot requires the ball's linear momentum to overcome air drag only; it's the ball's rotational momentum that overcomes gravity.

Actually, the flatline uses the spin to harness the drag in a contructive manner. This is called the "Magnus effect". Here is a wikipedia link to show you how this works....

http://en.wikipedia....i/Magnus_effect

The drag is still active on slowing the ball down but the lift generated helps it fly "flat".

IMO There is no true range advantage to the flatline. Once aerodynamic drag has absorbed the forward energy the ball simply drops. Those who are not aware of basic ballistic concepts and arcs are alowed to "Point and Shoot".

The Flatline/apex does allow you to shoot "under" the canopy be it the roof of a building or low branches of trees. Non-flatline barrels allow you to "drop" paint on people behind bunkers at range. This is on of Tyger's classic "thread the needle" tricks as seen on earlier episodes of WDR.

In each case all of the paintball's kinetic energy is supplied by the marker's CO2/N2. But if both markers are chrono'd to the same muzzle velocity, the flatline ball is carrying more energy than the regular ball - in the form of rotational kinetic energy - which the chrono doesn't read!


I'm actually a bit taken aback by this line of thought. But it seems sound to me. :P
A test must be undertaken!!!


Good try at reasoning this information out. You just needed to do a little more research.

The corrections that you're giving me are saying exactly what I was saying. Apparently what needs work is actually my writing skills...
If you want to "debate" it or whatever, let me know. I still feel that my theory is fundamentally sound. But ultimately, only actual tests (performed under very controlled circumstances) are going to give us the answer.
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