Special Ops Paintball: Project M1 - Special Ops Paintball

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Project M1

#16 User is offline   Niceguy74 

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Posted 18 March 2010 - 06:38 PM

i wasnt really talking about the caliber, or deep down specs..... i meant the arrangement of the gun, shape, setup, the basic design, the LAYOUT of it. kind of like in car design, how they get from one model to another with improvements.
the M1 Garand was a long heavy rifle. given to regular troops. but it ended up being to cumbersome for light fast moving specialist troops. plus the en-bloc clip was beginning to be considered slow.
then they made the M1 carbine with an improved clip design, yet smaller caliber, a bit shorter, lighter, and it was found most beneficial to paratroopers and the like, who needed a lighter faster smaller weapon.
next, they took the best from both guns, using the layout of the M1 Carbine, and the primary gut design of the Garand, and created the M14, notice the clip is now further forward like the carbine, they changed its handling, the center of weight. it was a merge of the two. they even tried to toss in some traits from the BAR, they tried full auto, which failed. look at the pictures of both....you see where they said "hey, we can take the idea of the garand and carbine and make this!" it was just a growth in advancements in the early days of creation for what was to become the assault rifle.

so although the guts of the garand are closer to the M14, the ideal behind how the gun was put together was from the carbine. the carbine led to change.

i just tend to look at things as they are created, not exact details. the springfield 03 bolt led to the garand, led to the carbine, the carbine led to the m14, the 14 to the 16........etc.....

think of it like a family tree, or evolution.
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#17 User is offline   Jackson 

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Posted 18 March 2010 - 07:50 PM

Spin it however you want.

Looks are not equivalent to design. Is it correct to say the M14 evolved from the SVT-40? They look similar! More similar than the Garand and M14 do. The SVT and M14 both have removable magazines. By your logic they obviously have some connection. It's like a family tree... :tup:

The Garand and the M14 share very similar construction. Their operating mechanisms are MUCH more similar to each other than to the M1 Carbine. The Carbine has a different trigger and gas system.

You're whole family tree idea that Springfield -> Garand -> Carbine -> M14 -> M16 is totally 100% flawed. There is a fundamental difference between sharing a similar design and sharing similar features or implementing lessons learned. The Garand is not an evolution of the Springfield. They didn't slowly modify and change things on the Springfield and end up with the Garand. They are totally separate entities, designed totally separately. That's not to say that lessons learned from the Springfield weren't included in the design process of the Garand. The advantages of semi-automatic fire over bolt action for one. The Carbine and M14 though are evolutions of the Garand. The Carbine started with the Garand base design and was modified heavily to reduce weight. It ended up with a different trigger and gas system. The M14 was designed from the Garand to include features that the military decided were necessary (i.e. detachable magazine, fully automatic fire). It shares a similar receiver design with the Garand. Similar gas system and trigger.
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#18 User is offline   Niceguy74 

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Posted 19 March 2010 - 11:35 AM

1) i never said the garand came from the springfield. i said it was a replacement in some aspects. the need was to get away from a bolt action and be able to fire more bullets.

2) it wasnt a SPIN. yes, my original post was worded wrong. the carbine did NOT turn into the m14. but it did lead to it by design. i should have explained myself better.

3) i admitted that the MECHANICS--GUTS are different, but said they took SOME ideas from the carbine, mainly its improvements of design and took that back with the best from the garand....through working out the issues with the carbine, they were able to use that same ideal and finally make a garand that could be clip fed, and throw a ton of lead down range. because up until it was perfected with the carbine, they could not get it to work with the garand, hence the en-bloc clip system being around for years.

4) in a way it is a family tree. many guns have evolved from one design or another, each company stealing or using the designs of other to improve their own gun. just like in paintball....

Garand+Carbine="their illegitimate son" the M14, which lead to the AR10 (with armalite creating several new designs to replace the standard garand in the fall of 1956), which was eventually evolved into the M16 when they got the contract.

5) i got the info from the history channel, via a military historian. so if my info is flawed, you can blame people who are paid to know.

6) thanks for turning a thread about a nice mod into an argument....

This post has been edited by Niceguy74: 19 March 2010 - 12:10 PM

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#19 User is offline   Jackson 

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Posted 19 March 2010 - 12:05 PM

View PostNiceguy74, on Mar 19 2010, 02:35 PM, said:

6) thanks for turning a thread about a nice mod into an argument....


I wasn't the one that came in here spouting his mouth off, acting like an expert, and being 100% wrong. :dry: I merely corrected your blatant errors in facts and reasoning.
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#20 User is offline   Niceguy74 

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Posted 19 March 2010 - 12:19 PM

i didnt spout my mouth off.

i said it LOOKED like an m14. he replied it was a carbine..

i said oh yeah...i forgot about it, and that the carbine became the m14. but of course i did word that wrong, saying it 'became' instead of 'led'. 'oh nos'...i used the wrong word.

i never did act like an expert.

i wasnt 100% wrong, my wording may not have been accurate to your godly bible of gun knowledge, so sorry for defying the king of all gun expertise.

...and here ya go again.....flaming it on even more.
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#21 User is offline   Jackson 

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Posted 19 March 2010 - 12:41 PM

View PostNiceguy74, on Mar 19 2010, 03:19 PM, said:

i didnt spout my mouth off.

i said it LOOKED like an m14. he replied it was a carbine..

i said oh yeah...i forgot about it, and that the carbine became the m14. but of course i did word that wrong, saying it 'became' instead of 'led'. 'oh nos'...i used the wrong word.

i never did act like an expert.

i wasnt 100% wrong, my wording may not have been accurate to your godly bible of gun knowledge, so sorry for defying the king of all gun expertise.

...and here ya go again.....flaming it on even more.


Yes I'm obviously flaming you when I haven't even directed an insult your way. :dry: Ok, kid. Keep trolling, maybe you'll get someone else to bite.

You came in here, you made a mistake by calling it an M14. You got called on it. You made another mistake in trying to defend your initial mistake by saying the M1 Carbine became the M14. You got called on that too. Now if you're done skirting around your mistakes, we can move on and discuss the mod.

K? Thx, bye.
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#22 User is offline   Varnel 

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 06:38 AM

Gun looks nice. :P Can't wait to see this in a couple weeks when some work has been put into it.
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#23 User is offline   Enhander 

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 06:42 AM

Hopefully ill get the stock/handguard by either the end of the week or start of next week.
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#24 User is offline   rickfactor 

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 01:58 PM

Nice job so far.

Too bad your thread got a little off topic with people having a dick measuring contest of who knows more.
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#25 User is offline   Enhander 

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 02:48 PM

I got to work on it a bit today since I got the stock in. Im going to have my work cut out for me. Basically I milled down the internals of the stock..its still going to need some work..and I have no clue how Im going to implement the trigger guard...

The handguard is going to be a whole other thing...If I cant get the body to sit farther down..then Im going to have to hack half of the handguard off....

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#26 User is offline   rickfactor 

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 04:28 PM

Ive made about 6 of these rifles and if you are about to start one, try to find a stock that has an entire wood bottom without the magazine cavity.

Here is a pic of one where I had to fill in the bottom. It was tough to do and this pic shows the bottom before I finished off the pins that help hold it on. I did not have a trigger guard but forks and spoons provided good steel with a cool pattern.

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Here is a my M14-like rifle. My stock was in rough shape too when I got it but it all sands out.

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#27 User is offline   Enhander 

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Posted 31 March 2010 - 05:39 AM

I decided to work on the M1 Stock a bit more tonight. Everything turned out great in my opinion. I first drilled 2 holes to compensate for what would have been the grip frame front screw and the twist lock adapter. Drilled the 2 holes and it aligned perfectly.

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I then slowly cut/sanded down the areas to compensate for the air fitting and cross-feed elbow. Once I get the proper barrel, it will sit down more..but it worked out awesome!

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I then decided to sand down the barrel area. Im not going to do anymore modification too it until I get a more linear barrel. Ill either end up with a RAP4 Raptor barrel or a 16inch J&J if I can find a cocker threaded one. It works ok with my UL..but Im not using the UL on it, that and the odd shape of the UL back causes problems. it goes from 1 inch diameter to 7/8ths then beck to 1 inch.

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#28 User is offline   BLACK MAMBA 

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Posted 31 March 2010 - 08:20 AM

you been quite busy id say :gunwhore:
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MM PB /VALKEN / FLASC / CCC / COMPULSIVE / MSS / TIBERIUS / GUERRILLA
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#29 User is offline   13 shadows 

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Posted 31 March 2010 - 08:32 PM

looks good keep up the good work advocating for milsim! haha once people see this everyones gunna want their gun to look real
Tippmann A5_M4 collapsible stock_J&J 14" ceramic barrel_swat force tactical red/green dot sight

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