Special Ops Paintball: TET OFFENSIVE ON AUGUST 25 at BATTLEFRONT PAINTBALL, HUBBARD, OH - Special Ops Paintball

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TET OFFENSIVE ON AUGUST 25 at BATTLEFRONT PAINTBALL, HUBBARD, OH Rate Topic: -----

#46 User is offline   Jackson 

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Posted 31 August 2007 - 08:02 PM

View PostCra-Z Ivan, on Aug 31 2007, 10:23 PM, said:

Ok I keep hearing that there weren't enough refs. For your information we had one ref for every 10 players on the field. Now that may not seem like alot to you, but last time I was at H.S. there were 2,000 players there and no where near 200 refs. I should know I attended the ref briefing the night before and participated as a RIP (Ref In Play). Only three of the regular refs were playing in the TET game. The truth of is that alot of the ARCs volunteer at the field anytime they're needed. If you attended a Battlefront scenario this year, atleast two of us reffed that day. So in reality we're regular refs too... and if anything there were more refs on field than ever before.

I heard some complain about wipers, which there always are, but sometimes there are MEDICS with these people and they were "healed".

The Americans were given most of the advantages for this game. There HQ was within earshot of the parking lot whereas the NVAs was a hike nearly across the entire field (Hence the mobile deployments via truck). The late start benefited the Americans as the first mission was shortened and the VC given less points accordingly. Now anybody complaining that you didn't know the missions, I know you were american, cause the VC were in place like clockwork. But what gets me is why you didn't just walk to the American HQ if your radios were out.

VC and Americans were allowed to respawn from the parking lot area. Some VC were walking inserted in others were taken on the truck (just like H.S. does). The americans were allowed to walk back to their base and insert from there (another advantage). The american who claimed the vc shouldn't be able to respawn from the lot while they owned the city.... I don't know what briefing he was listening too, cause I gave the american breifing and said nothing like that. In fact ... "the city" was the final objective, but by the time this objective came out all the 'teams' on the US side had given up.

Maybe if you had kept in touch with the General who was getting all the missions you would have know what was and what wasn't an objective and wouldn't have wasted your time attacking a city that the higher ups were abandoning.

All in all I heard tons of great comments from players at the event. The negative comments (other than arm band colors) were saved until they got home and went online. If your grievence had been aired at the event, it would have been handled promptly.

One last thing, I would like to remind people that your closed up car is NOT the best place to store paint. On hot summer days the temperatures and relative humidity in your car can cause serious deformations and issues with paint. I saw many players storing paint in the closed up cars. Its funny how the paint always works great during the chrono range and two hour wind up to the game, but the next day everyone blames the paint for there failures.

I hope to see you all at Battlefront soon again. Thanks for all the support guys, you made this event one to remember, and I can't wait to see all the photos.

The official game write up will be posted soon!

I know a lot of this is directed at me. So I will respond accordingly.

The actual ref to player ratio is important, yes. But when you have them bunching up and chatting with each other, like they were in the city, then it lowers their effectiveness. The have essentially become one ref, and a poor one at that because they are not focused on the game. Maybe you don't actually need more refs, but you need to tell them again, you are to be reffing, not chatting. Spread out and watch the field. Perhaps assign refs to patrol specific areas to keep them from bunching up. Assign more refs to key areas where a lot of fighting is known to take place. I heard one person say they saw plenty of refs far back in the woods. That's fine, but how much action took place back there? They could have been more effectively deployed closer to the main section of the field. Inform them enough of the objectives so they can gravitate towards them because logically, more action takes place at the objective locations. These are all constructive criticisms and suggestions.

The rules, as I understood them, stated that a medic had to come to the "wounded" player. All instances of wiping I saw involved either the player alone clearly wiping paint off or just outright playing on, or seeing a hit and running back to take cover then firing more. I did see some medics in use, so I know the difference. It's quite obvious that a medic is in play because of the armband and the fact that they move to the hit player, not the other way around.

I would agree, the lack of communication was a player/general issue. It was frustrating. But the day would have been at least enjoyable if not for the cheating and paint issues compiled on top of it. Without objectives, the day becomes a big "walk-on" day. That's alright, at least it's paintball. But even a walk-on day becomes unenjoyable when you have bad paint and cheaters. I've tried not to focus on the scenario. The scenario I think was good; from what bits I saw of it, it stayed decently true to history. What ruined the experience was the field issues. My entire point is that the ARC Troopers are not the cause of my bad experience. If they ran a scenario at another field, I would go. BFP caused my bad day because of the poor paint and dispersion of refs.

Can I have some further clarification on the VC spawning at the parking lot? It would seem logical to me that they wouldn't be allowed to spawn there unless they held the city. It became quite frustrating taking the city only to be "backdoored" by VC who were permitted to spawn behind enemy lines. Or was that to simulate some aspect of the Tet Offensive? Basically, can you outline briefly who was allowed to spawn at the parking lot and when?

As for why the negative comments came out only online... Ask the ref who was in the American HQ, I came in in the late morning complaining about some issues on the far left flank (woods area, I think near hamburger hill). We were getting SEVERELY overshot, getting hit with what I think was non-field paint (red shell red fill, at least the ref there told me that was not field paint, hard to tell with so many grades of paint), and some wiping. I wanted to voice me opinions to the field owner, but I was told he was on the field playing. It was hard to voice negativity the day of because there seemed to be no authority figure off or on the field. At the local field, before any scenario or walk-on day, the head ref always makes sure to introduce himself and make it known that if there are any concerns, he is the one to come to. Implementing a similar strategy, I feel, would go a long way towards improving the events throughout the day, not just after the fact.

I agree that the car is no the best place. It was my mistake for storing them there. BUT, even when I first opened my case, there was not 500 balls in each bag but rather 4-5 clumps of melted balls in each bag. Immediately after chronoing, I did some target shooting at the targets there. The man-shaped targets in the range are plywood. Taking aim for head shots, I was getting brand new balls, fresh out of the bags, bouncing off the targets. I was in Hue tower at the beginning, taking fire. Some of the balls hitting the plywood walls were not breaking, but bouncing. Many were only slightly cracking, not leaving enough paint for a quarter-sized hit. It was bad paint from the instant it was placed in my hands, not from being locked in a car all day. Maybe a new paint supplier is in order? Maybe some spot checking of paint before it is unloaded and placed in the temperature controlled room. Maybe some spot checks at the counter. All suggestions to keep this from happening again. That was the second time at BFP with atrocious paint.

I know these grievances don't really apply to the ARC Troopers or anyone involved with the scenario production, but rather the field. The reason I post them is so that perchance those that made this scenario can pass them to the field. They are in better contact with the owner as they put on a scenario at the field. Like I said before, I would come to another one of your scenarios if it was held at another location and time/money allowed. BFP had some issues in the paint and ref department and that ruined my day, not the scenario.

This post has been edited by Jackson: 31 August 2007 - 08:05 PM

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#47 User is offline   Combatbob 

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Posted 02 September 2007 - 02:10 AM

um Ivan if you read my post it says that why we left d-day a day early and decided not to go to tet offensive please read my post next time before you yell at me. If you want to get into a argument over H.S. vs Battlefront please lets do it in a civil manner with out any eye gouging, biting, or hits below the belt. Also the whole ref thing Their is always a ref to be found at H.S. they don't just cluster into one big group.

This post has been edited by Combatbob: 02 September 2007 - 02:13 AM

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#48 User is offline   Siege 

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Posted 03 September 2007 - 04:25 AM

Hi Jackson (and 'Toter, and anyone else who's interested),

Just wanted to let you know that I talked to the owner & staff over the weekend, so all your complaints have been heard and will be considered for future events.

Direct answer on the paint problem you had (Well, as direct as I get anyway - damn blabbermouth that I am):

Dave was good enough to show me the paint storage room, and I can't find any real fault with it. It's a windowless room, climate controlled (air conditioned in the summer, heated in the winter, always kept at seventy degrees on the nose - apparently also being a favorite place for some of the staff to hide out during breaks if the weather is particularly hot or otherwise inclement).

The paint was at Battlefront for less than thirty six hours - they got it all in on Thursday and sold it all at TET - so it wasn't there very long, and it stayed in the storage room from the minute they took it off the truck to the time they sold it to you.

Where the problem may have occurred is that it was noted during the conversation that Origin, Battlefront's paintball supplier, is apparently starting to turn to third-party manufacturers to complete orders - a move that Dave has noted is causing a definite hit in quality. And they have been checking the shipments (I was told the tale of the Cubic Marbs), but if everything is starting to become a bit random that makes the 'Front's job that much harder.

I used Basic Training grade this past weekend (Chappy was good enough to buy me a bag - Free paint! Woohoo! Thanks, Chappy.) and I can confirm 500 individual paintballs as opposed to 4-5 pieces of greasy modern art. I think you and your buddies just had a bad luck of the draw that day. (Probably got the paint some yahoo in the supplier's shipping department left on a pallet in the sun or something, and it got mixed into Battlefront's order...)

Anyway, to make my long story shorter, I was informed Battlefront has a pretty simple policy: They wouldn't put up with defective paint, they don't expect you to either. If you ever find yourself at the 'Front again in the future and the after checking your paint you find it is not acceptable, bring it back to the counter and they'll find you paint that is.

And that's about all I got. I'll keep in touch. Siege out.
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#49 User is offline   SN toter 

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Posted 03 September 2007 - 07:25 AM

View PostSiege, on Sep 3 2007, 04:25 AM, said:

Just wanted to let you know that I talked to the owner & staff over the weekend, so all your complaints have been heard and will be considered for future events.


Thanks Siege! Thats good info to know about the paint, too. I shot origin paint I had left from the 4 pack in april and it shot great...and it was 4 months old...no complaints there.

And to the Arc Troopers, I do commend you guys for your efforts, it was a nice thing you guys did as far as allowing the reg staff to get in on an event. There were just some issues that ruined the day for me. I know a lot og guys had a blast there, and I'll give it another try next year. See you then

This post has been edited by SN toter: 03 September 2007 - 12:54 PM

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#50 User is offline   bpoydence 

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Posted 04 September 2007 - 05:22 AM

View PostSiege, on Sep 3 2007, 07:25 AM, said:

Hi Jackson (and 'Toter, and anyone else who's interested),

Just wanted to let you know that I talked to the owner & staff over the weekend, so all your complaints have been heard and will be considered for future events.

Direct answer on the paint problem you had (Well, as direct as I get anyway - damn blabbermouth that I am):

Dave was good enough to show me the paint storage room, and I can't find any real fault with it. It's a windowless room, climate controlled (air conditioned in the summer, heated in the winter, always kept at seventy degrees on the nose - apparently also being a favorite place for some of the staff to hide out during breaks if the weather is particularly hot or otherwise inclement).

The paint was at Battlefront for less than thirty six hours - they got it all in on Thursday and sold it all at TET - so it wasn't there very long, and it stayed in the storage room from the minute they took it off the truck to the time they sold it to you.

Where the problem may have occurred is that it was noted during the conversation that Origin, Battlefront's paintball supplier, is apparently starting to turn to third-party manufacturers to complete orders - a move that Dave has noted is causing a definite hit in quality. And they have been checking the shipments (I was told the tale of the Cubic Marbs), but if everything is starting to become a bit random that makes the 'Front's job that much harder.

I used Basic Training grade this past weekend (Chappy was good enough to buy me a bag - Free paint! Woohoo! Thanks, Chappy.) and I can confirm 500 individual paintballs as opposed to 4-5 pieces of greasy modern art. I think you and your buddies just had a bad luck of the draw that day. (Probably got the paint some yahoo in the supplier's shipping department left on a pallet in the sun or something, and it got mixed into Battlefront's order...)

Anyway, to make my long story shorter, I was informed Battlefront has a pretty simple policy: They wouldn't put up with defective paint, they don't expect you to either. If you ever find yourself at the 'Front again in the future and the after checking your paint you find it is not acceptable, bring it back to the counter and they'll find you paint that is.

And that's about all I got. I'll keep in touch. Siege out.


Great! The one thing that I pay attention to after having a bad experience is if the field owners care. I have been to games where the paint was so bad I could not fire a single shot all day (and I wasn't alone)! When I told the owners (this was not at battlefront) they said the paint was good, and that no one else was complaining. Meanwhile I was told by about 10 people they couldn't use it either!

I hope the people who were disheartened by problems with paint and other problems see that the owners noticed and are trying to rectify the problem. For me that makes all the difference in the world!

In Jacksons defense, I did take some of the paint that I ended up with and tried a test. I threw it down as hard as I could to the kitchen floor (wood and tile). It bounced. So I did it again (my wife didn't even yell the second time) and it bounced again! After the third attempt I took it out to the concrete outside and tried again, same result! After the fourth time throwing it, it cracked. There are two ways to look at that. On one hand it wont be breaking in the barrel, and you can shoot through thick brush. On the other hand, the only way to get someone out is to hit them enough times they give up! Do keep in mind though, I have been to battlefront a handful of times and the only other paint issue I had was the notorious Marbs that everyone else complained about. My team has went through a lot of paint there and never had an issue with the Origin. What I am recommending to my team, and to everyone else interested is to complain to Origin. Similar to what I said about the owners listening, I hope the people at origin listen too. Tell them about it and if they get enough complaints they almost have to do something.

For anyone who wants to do that, the address is info@originpaintball.com

This post has been edited by bpoydence: 04 September 2007 - 05:24 AM

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