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9/11 Never forget, you inconsiderate Rate Topic: -----

#46 User is offline   Digital Pirate 

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 04:25 PM

View PostBecc, on Sep 11 2009, 05:54 PM, said:

Has anyone else noticed theres no pic for it on google? Talk about dispicable... they even have it for comets, and not for 9/11????!!!!

The rest ill reply to later, when i get a chance to actually read, but that really upse tme


Is it really that big a deal?

I know I'd rather not see two towers burning when I load up Google. You're actually looking for small things to pick fights with, and it's rather childish Becc.
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#47 User is offline   Ashrak 

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 04:28 PM

I believe she was referring to some sort of memorial symbol, not necessarily a plane crashing into the World Trade Center.

I can she where she is coming from - if Google will go out if its way to commemorate, say, a comet, than why not 9/11?

When you think about, Michael Jackson got far more press attention than the passengers on Flight 93, and those passengers actually made something of themselves that was meaningful.

Unlike Michael Jackson.

@ Dig

Why would you care? You're Canadian. :P

('Cause you knew someone was going to say it, sooner or later. And yes, in case I'm not being clear, we call this sarcasm.)

This post has been edited by Ashrak: 11 September 2009 - 04:30 PM

Alea iacta est ~ The board is set, the pieces are moving.
~ Like the leaves of the forest when Summer is green, That host with their banners at sunset were seen:
Like the leaves of the forest when Autumn hath blown, That host on the morrow lay withered and strown. ~ Destruction of Sennacherib

~ Believe me, dear Sir: there is not in the American states a man who more cordially loves a union with his country than I do. But, by the God that made me, I will cease to exist before I yield to a connection on such terms as the United States Congress proposes; and in this, I think I speak the sentiments of America. ~ Thomas Jefferson (modernized)
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#48 User is offline   UWANNAGO 

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 04:38 PM

While its terrible that this has happened and is a day that forever lives in history to a point you dont make as big of a deal about it...

Pearl Harbor....most people dont even know when it happened much less is there recognition that was directly related to as many or more american lives (WWII)

Just because something is important doesnt mean it has to get constant recognition...the affects of 911 are evident every day of our lives...it was terrible but with the exception of the 4th of july there is no event in American history that is remembered and celebrated in full force every year...if you did that then there would be some sort of huge memorial or celebration once or twice a month.

Becc I have noticed alot of your posts seem to put you above everyone...from leaving high school because it was "too easy" to ranting about companies you hate, to this. You have a long life ahead of you give yourself at least 10 years before your bitter at everything maybe then you can have some legit reasons.

This post has been edited by Teddy K: 11 September 2009 - 04:39 PM

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#49 User is offline   Digital Pirate 

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 04:38 PM

View PostAshrak, on Sep 11 2009, 06:28 PM, said:

I believe she was referring to some sort of memorial symbol, not necessarily a plane crashing into the World Trade Center.

I can she where she is coming from - if Google will go out if its way to commemorate, say, a comet, than why not 9/11?

When you think about, Michael Jackson got far more press attention than the passengers on Flight 93, and those passengers actually made something of themselves that was meaningful.

Unlike Michael Jackson.

@ Dig

Why would you care? You're Canadian. :P

('Cause you knew someone was going to say it, sooner or later. And yes, in case I'm not being clear, we call this sarcasm.)


Pfft ignorant American. :dodgy:

I don't know why they wouldn't. MJ got more press because it was recent and people are interested in celebrities. However saying Michael Jackson did nothing meaningful is a slap in the face to the music and choreography industries.
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#50 User is offline   Ashrak 

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 04:44 PM

Communist. :dodgy:

Fine, I slapped them.

The music industry and choreography industries pale in comparison to the passengers of Flight 93, and Mr. Moonwalker gets more coverage, more celebration of his life, than genuine American heroes.

I find something wrong with that.

View PostTeddy K, on Sep 11 2009, 07:38 PM, said:

Pearl Harbor....most people dont even know when it happened much less is there recognition that was directly related to as many or more american lives (WWII)


And why do you think that is? People don't pay attention, and people don't remember.

I find something wrong with that as well.

This post has been edited by Ashrak: 11 September 2009 - 04:45 PM

Alea iacta est ~ The board is set, the pieces are moving.
~ Like the leaves of the forest when Summer is green, That host with their banners at sunset were seen:
Like the leaves of the forest when Autumn hath blown, That host on the morrow lay withered and strown. ~ Destruction of Sennacherib

~ Believe me, dear Sir: there is not in the American states a man who more cordially loves a union with his country than I do. But, by the God that made me, I will cease to exist before I yield to a connection on such terms as the United States Congress proposes; and in this, I think I speak the sentiments of America. ~ Thomas Jefferson (modernized)
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#51 User is offline   Digital Pirate 

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 04:47 PM

View PostAshrak, on Sep 11 2009, 06:44 PM, said:

Communist. :dodgy:

Fine, I slapped them.

The music industry and choreography industries pale in comparison to the passengers of Flight 93, and Mr. Moonwalker gets more coverage, more celebration of his life, than genuine American heroes.

I find something wrong with that.

View PostTeddy K, on Sep 11 2009, 07:38 PM, said:

Pearl Harbor....most people dont even know when it happened much less is there recognition that was directly related to as many or more american lives (WWII)


And why do you think that is? People don't pay attention, and people don't remember.

I find something wrong with that as well.


Yeah, well the media cares more about numbers that actual people.

Case in point: http://news.yahoo.co..._politico/26759
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#52 User is offline   Ashrak 

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 04:48 PM

And I find something wrong with that as well.

(Are we detecting a trend?)
Alea iacta est ~ The board is set, the pieces are moving.
~ Like the leaves of the forest when Summer is green, That host with their banners at sunset were seen:
Like the leaves of the forest when Autumn hath blown, That host on the morrow lay withered and strown. ~ Destruction of Sennacherib

~ Believe me, dear Sir: there is not in the American states a man who more cordially loves a union with his country than I do. But, by the God that made me, I will cease to exist before I yield to a connection on such terms as the United States Congress proposes; and in this, I think I speak the sentiments of America. ~ Thomas Jefferson (modernized)
Summertime Blues
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#53 User is offline   Silent-7 

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 04:59 PM

I do realize that there is MUCH more involved than this, but since the subject came up:

Deaths at Pearl Harbor: ~2300
Deaths on 9/11: ~3000

Now compare the WWII death count to that of the war on terror...
Just saying...




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Tell me Becc: How many people died yesterday? The day before? The day before that?

How many of those people were slaughtered in massive terrorist attacks? It makes a difference.
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#54 User is offline   Cyanidepoison 

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 05:01 PM

View Postdeltapaintball, on Sep 10 2009, 08:37 PM, said:

Quote

9/11, Never forget, you inconsiderate bastards


And people wonder why this forum is loosing members left and right.

I come back to laugh everyone once in a while.

PbNation has some crazies, but nothing like here.

I'm in the technology and philosophy/religion subforums of Small Talk if anyone wants to join me.

:dodgy:
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#55 User is offline   Ethrealwolf 

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 05:13 PM

View PostCyanidepoison, on Sep 11 2009, 05:01 PM, said:

View Postdeltapaintball, on Sep 10 2009, 08:37 PM, said:

Quote

9/11, Never forget, you inconsiderate bastards


And people wonder why this forum is loosing members left and right.

I come back to laugh everyone once in a while.

PbNation has some crazies, but nothing like here.

I'm in the technology and philosophy/religion subforums of Small Talk if anyone wants to join me.

:dodgy:



Hell I avoid ST. you seen the field owners forum? rahel's threads are plenty amusing, I don't need ST.
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#56 User is offline   MaDuce 

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 05:19 PM

View PostAshrak, on Sep 10 2009, 09:48 PM, said:

That's hubristic Duce, very hubristic.

Sure, write off Al-Qaeda....that's a wonderful idea. :dodgy:


Ash, if you wake up every morning and patrol your farm hoping to catch a jihadist in the act, I feel very sorry for you. I for one, plan to live life, go to college, start a family--WITHOUT living in fear of another plane crashing or a bomb going off. I don't plan on giving these thugs the time of day. I certainly hope al-Qaeda doesn't interfere with my plans, and they very well might, but well, what was it Col. Ryan said? "The price of security is paranoia."

It's a rough trade-off.

View PostPistolWhipped, on Sep 10 2009, 09:58 PM, said:

No offense Duce, while that is an admirable view, it seems a bit idealistic.


You all like apt quotes. How about this one: "He who fights monsters must take care lest he thereby become one."

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We are not here to prove we are "better" than them. The fact we did not fly planes into any of their massive population centers settles that. We are there to eliminate the threat to our nation's security. But for some reason, Washington seems to be of the mind that the animals who initiated these attacks deserve some level of sporting chance. I disagree.


Self-preservation. That's what bears do. Are we bears? No. We are more than bears. I'd rather not become a terrorist. I'd rather not be a nation of terrorists. And I am not and we are not because we refuse to become the "animals" our enemies are.

Sure, we could've gone Gulf War I on Iraq for the second time, but we didn't. If we did, I bet you we'd be facing a much bigger insurrection than we did.

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We do not need to make friends.

We do not need to play nice.

We DO need to put down the animals that initiated these attacks, and those whom would aid, abet, and harbor them.


Remember, we didn't declare war on the Muslim World. We declared war on al-Qaeda. Silly things like rules of engagement help keep it that way.


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Really it is that simple. People like to overcomplicate things. If they want to die and go to Allah, we send them on the way. Not put squads of kids barely out of high school in Hummers waiting to get shredded by IEDs. This is not some moral holy war. Militant Islamists would like to make it one, but why fight on their terms?


People like to oversimplify things. Our response in large part helps dictate how much worse it will get.

It isn't simply a matter of "fighting on their terms" but rather one of putting the hurt on the right people.

EDIT: Grammar.

This post has been edited by MaDuce: 11 September 2009 - 06:01 PM

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#57 User is offline   MaDuce 

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 05:33 PM

View PostAshrak, on Sep 11 2009, 03:01 PM, said:

For sake of round numbers, we'll simply use the figure 1 billion (1,200,000,000) and select a small percentage, such as 5%.

Now, 1 billion x 5% = 50,000,000 or 50 million.

For comparison, in World War II, the German infantry, or Wehrmacht, numbered no more than 18 million throughout the war. That is not taking into account Italian forces, Japanese forces, or the rest of the German military, of course.

If we extend to 1.2 billion x 5% = 60,000,000 or 60 million.

Either way, the math is not promising, as I believe 95% to be a best case scenario. However, I use it for these exercises as it is thrown around so freely, and without reservation, by so many. This is not to say that every Muslim is a jihadist (a far more accurate term than the generic 'terrorist'). Far from, as I do not pretend, nor have ever represented what each individual Muslim believes.

But...

The "small percentage argument" is of small comfort, as I have illustrated. We have our work cut out for us, and it is important that we use our resources (men, money, and war materiel) to proper effect.We haven't been doing this. Speaking in platitudes of "finding the people responsible" is all well and good, but when push comes to shove, just how far are you willing to go? How far, as a country, are we willing to go? That is a question that has not been answered, realistically answered, by enough people.


If all 60 million Muslims are radical Jihadists, then why isn't the world in anarchy? America should be facing an undending chain of attacks, with wave after wave of Jihadists hell-bent on destroying our country. Obviously our numbers might be wrong, but still.

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War is hell. In war, people die, be they civilians, children, jihadists, soldiers, Marines, or airmen. In war, you must decided that which you value most: the lives of tribesmen, or the lives of your own. The sooner these questions are answered, in honest fashion by all concerned, the better of we as a country will be. It will give clarity as to the tactics and the missions we will sanction.

Personally, my mind is made up. Military forces are meant to conquer and kill, breaking the will of the enemy to resist. Military forces are not meant to engage in nation building, police action, or any other type of social engineering in foreign lands. So either wage war as it is to be done, or do not fight. Failure, as we face in Afghanistan, is a waste of everyone's lives and limbs.

One final note: America has moved beyond Pearl Harbor because the affected generation's appetite for revenge was fulfilled. That is the only reason.


In sum, you argue we should turn the Middle East into glass. Or at least make an example of someone. Authorize torture. Because the only thing a Jihadist will respect is strength.

Well, then we're just giving them what they want, aren't we? Just sending them to Allah sooner?

Fine, we'll just kill them.

TO PAKISTAN! Let's start round three!
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#58 User is offline   MaDuce 

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 05:39 PM

View PostAshrak, on Sep 11 2009, 04:28 PM, said:

Why would you care? You're Canadian. :dodgy:

('Cause you knew someone was going to say it, sooner or later. And yes, in case I'm not being clear, we call this sarcasm.)


I know that's sarcasm, but I'd like to remind all 'yall, that Canada agree to take all the diverted flights after 9/11. The passengers of hundereds of flights were stuck in planes on tiny airports in the middle of nowhere, when Canadian citizens-- people from the surrounding towns--came to these airports and took these passengers to their homes and let them stay there 'till the planes were flying again.

The Canadian military personnel at NORAD were right there next to our Air Force teams, trying to get a handle on the situation.

So, to our northern neighbors, thank you.

At least you woundn't release a convicted terrorist to cut an oil deal. :dry:
"Its very hard to grasp the idea at first but once you accept it, it makes A LOT of sense!" -- Minnesota Sn1p3r on conspiracy theories
"Everyone instantly jumps the conclusion that the government is out to get us." -- SWAT SAINT
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#59 User is offline   ike123 

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 05:56 PM

View PostSilent-7, on Sep 11 2009, 04:59 PM, said:

I do realize that there is MUCH more involved than this, but since the subject came up:

Deaths at Pearl Harbor: ~2300
Deaths on 9/11: ~3000

Now compare the WWII death count to that of the war on terror...
Just saying...

You might want to include Wake Island in that, as it was a surprise attack, started simultaneously with Pearl Harbor, which killed another 450 Americans, thus bringing the death to slightly less than 9/11. (Pearl harbor/Wake Island: 2,852, 9/11: 2,993.)

Not taking sides, just providing facts.
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#60 User is offline   Cuy'val Dar  

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 06:59 PM

I dont see a difference between a radical Jihadist and a regular one. Jihadists IN GENERAL are taught that to get to heaven they must rid the earth of infidels. I believe thats the Jihadists.
Don't you know anything about what the government has done for national security? honestly. im not saying the government is all knowing, but they do ALOT more than we give them credit for towards the security of our country. then theres each individual company that has its own secruity proceedures. now that could be airline, taxi, train or chemical plant.

I think the middles east SHOULD HAVE BEEN turned into glass a long time ago.

I dont think its fair the standards we have to maintain to recieve information. We use chemicals and such to make them talk. Why is it that no one talks about what they do to our soldiers huh? they come in with a rusty knife and start removing digits and other extremities, but no one ever talks about that.

And Becc, i dont think that you have over reacted. i think your reaction to the whole situation of half a country not caring is justified. frankly im pretty mad too.

other people. dont put becc down because she feels strongly about something. im sure at some point, that you have felt like that about something and people do the same thing to you, so lay off.
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